Hello all. I just discovered this forum tonight and have questions. I have read His Needs/Her Needs and SAA and am not sure which direction to go. My H moved out in March. I suspected an EA, but after about two weeks he confessed to a PA. It had been going on for two years. At first he wanted a divorce ...didn't love me, never had, deserved better, etc. So, we did a legal separation with no contact while waiting the mandatory 90 days for a divorce to go through. After a month he contacted me and said he was lonely, missed the kids, missed me, didn't like the single life so much and could we go to couseling and try to work on it. I agreed. We had a couple of good weeks, took the kids on a weekend away, things were going good then I found out he was still in contact with OW. I did a major LB. He said he still wanted to work things out so I told him he had to move home and completely give up the other woman. He moved home, but wouldn't give up his apartment. That was a major source of contention, but was was trying very hard to be patient. Without realizing it I have been for the most part doing Plan A. There have only been a couple of LB's on my part except for that I have really done all the components of Plan A. About 6 weeks ago I discovered the book His Needs/Her Needs and was amazed at the whole concept of it. I apologized to him for not meeting his needs and told him that I really wanted to try and meet his needs, which I have done. Then I ordered SAA and was even more amazed. I realized that I have been doing Plan A without even knowing it. Then about a month ago I discovered that the relationship with the OW never did end and that they were meeting at his apartment, which was my fear. He agreed to give up the apartment and move home, which he did. He again said he would give up OW, but it only lasted a week or so. Again he promised all was over with OW, but within a week he talked to her at the gym for about five minutes. Things haven't been the same since. It is a small town and all eyes are watching him and OW. I hear about ever move they make from all sorts of sources. Last night I asked him about a sighting of him and OW and he blew up and said there is no hope for us in this town where everyone is always spying. I told him if he was doing what he was suppose to and not lying to me there would be nothing for people to tell. He said he wanted to move out. He said the relationship E and P was over with OW, but if he saw her at store, gym, ball game etc. he wasn't going to run from her. I begged him to read SAA and see if he thought we could do the recover steps.<P>Finally, my question is... should I tell him that it is okay to talk to her when there are chance meetings like that and just continue with Plan A? I still love him very much and I have five children that adore him so I can't stand the thought of going to Plan B. Should I see if we can do the Recovery stage and hope that the relationship with OW is indeed over or should I just continue in Plan A? I hope I haven't messed things up too bad. Should I tell my friends to quit telling on him and just try and trust him and hope the relationship really is over?<P>I'm sorry this is so long. I will call the MB phone # Monday, but he wants us to come to decisions Sunday. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by still hopeful:<BR><B>I'm sorry this is so long. I will call the MB phone # Monday, but he wants us to come to decisions Sunday. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hang in there, it is easier to do plan A while he is around than he is away. Get a hold of someone in MB and get help soon. Your H is not over with OW. Good plan A should be in place, your did LB it need time to fix it again. It is a test of your love for your H. -I pray to God to give you strength, hang in there-<P>Hadi<BR><P>------------------<BR>Give your absolute best such that looking back 10 years from now w/ no regret.

<B>Without realizing it I have been for the most part doing Plan A. There have only been a couple of LB's on my part except for that I have really done all the components of Plan A. About 6 weeks ago I discovered the book His Needs/Her Needs and was amazed at the whole concept of it. I apologized to him for not meeting his needs and told him that I really wanted to try and meet his needs, which I have done. Then I ordered SAA and was even more amazed. I realized that I have been doing Plan A without even knowing it.</B><BR>None of this is rocket science. Most if not all of it is common sense and does not involve tons of counseling and work.<P><B>should I tell him that it is okay to talk to her when there are chance meetings like that and just continue with Plan A?</B><BR>No. Plan A is not about enabling the affair or making your ws think it is okay. However, you do not blow up when you discover they have met.<P><B>Should I tell my friends to quit telling on him and just try and trust him and hope the relationship really is over?</B><BR>No. Why should you trust him the affair is over? At first he probably told you there was nothing going on but there was. Trust is something he will have to earn. He will very likely not agree to this now but after a the affair is over and he sees what happened to him & you , he <I>should</I> see the necessity of it.<P>When he agrees the affair is over, he should agree to anything you need to do to ensure no contact. This includes checking his email and voicemail, checking the cell phone records etc.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

My H is doing the same thing. After initially agreeing to work on the marriage, specifically saying "I'll do anything", he subsequently balked at counseling, STD checks, and giving up the second life he built that didn't include me and that spawned and nurtured the A.<P>He still works with OW and hangs out at the establishment during off hours as well (maybe during her other shifts?), yet he expects me to believe that he has ended the affair. (This is a moonlighting job BTW, not his main source of income.)<P>He originally claimed that the A had been over for two months, but then after a couple of days of intense courtship of me and acting like a schoolboy in love (which has since ceased), and only after I succumbed to him sexually, he disclosed that his last sexual encounter with OW was just six days prior to our sexual encounter, our first in five months!<P>I am devastated and have no idea what to do. I can't believe anything he says. I have refrained from LBs, but have calmly told him that the marriage cannot recover without him working to rebuild trust.<P>I explained that previous to his disclosure of the A, I did what I could to prove it and confirm my suspicions, but that now the shoe is on the other foot and it is up to him to prove to me that he is NOT having the A and not seeing the OW.<P>He did eventually go with me for blood tests, but is complaining about the follow-up visit that I requested so the doctor can go over the test results and counsel me (and him, if he decides to go) on how to protect myself and my nursing baby in the future. Having been in what I thought was a monogamous marriage for over a decade, I am ignorant about "safe sex" and am scared to death of what I may have brought on myself and my baby by having sex with my H after (during?) his A.<P>Someone from the health department told me that even if the initial testing is negative you have to be tested again in six months, again with negative results, before you can be considered disease-free. When I asked about using condoms in between the testing times, he said that H and I should refrain from sex completely until there were two sets of tests six months apart, both with negative results.<P>After already being without sex for five months, the thought of an additional six months just brought me to tears, not to mention that this is H's highest rated need and his primary reason for the A (the postpartum me not initiating sex often enough). So, how can plan A work if I can't meet his need for sexual fulfillment?<P>How have others handled these issues? My Love Bank is so far into the red, and my hopes of the marriage surviving all of this are pretty much gone. I keep wondering why on earth I'm putting myself through this.<P>We were separated for six days, and it was only when he wanted to move back in that he finally confessed to the affair and again promised to work on rebuilding the marriage. However, it was only three weeks prior to that that he first promised to work on the marriage and then moved out less than two weeks later to be with OW!<P>I'm desperate for advice and encouragement. Thanks.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Conqueror:<BR><B><BR>After already being without sex for five months, the thought of an additional six months just brought me to tears, not to mention that this is H's highest rated need and his primary reason for the A (the postpartum me not initiating sex often enough). So, how can plan A work if I can't meet his need for sexual fulfillment?<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Get help on sexuality, learn to enjoy it your self to get orgasm or even multiple for long term recovery. Yes you can fullfill his !!!, ask your trusted freind that you see their husband is not "hungry". This is part of plan A you might feel like rape, this plan A is give ... give ... and give. Your resenting him in sex out of low LoveBank.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Conqueror:<BR><B><BR>How have others handled these issues? My Love Bank is so far into the red, and my hopes of the marriage surviving all of this are pretty much gone. I keep wondering why on earth I'm putting myself through this.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Because like the rest of us you believe in marriage and your love. This plan A is not for sissy and is a roller coaster ride of your life ... you are in the down ward spiral ... hang in there.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Conqueror:<BR><B><P>I'm desperate for advice and encouragement. Thanks.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>We only could encourage you and for real advice you have to get MB. You did not end his A the proper way, read SAA.<P><P>------------------<BR>Give your absolute best such that you could look back 10 years from now w/ no regret.

I finished reading SAA, and you are right--the affair has not ended the right way. I did tell him on D-day (9/23/01) that it had to be completely over with no contact with OW at all and not even a CHANCE of contact, that the job had to go, the whole secret second life had to go. But he refuses, doesn't want to work anywhere else, doesn't want to give up his other friends at work, claims he never has to go near her during the shifts they work together, doesn't want to give up the money and benefits, excuse after excuse after excuse.<P>So, here I sit stuck in plan A. I encouraged him to read the first five chapters of SAA so he would know where we are, that we haven't even gotten to the BEGINNING of recovery. He hasn't picked up the book yet.<P>We have a counseling appointment tonight that he reluctantly agreed to go to, so we'll see if he does. We have an appointment with our doctor tomorrow to go over our STD test results, but he doesn't want to go to that--too busy. I sort of LBed on that and calmly pointed out that he had all the same work obligations and time constraints but somehow found the time to have his liaisons with OW and give her his precious time.<P>I don't know how long I'll last in plan A without at least getting a satisfying sex life out of it. I can have a solo sex life without him here hurting me constantly. The more I'm with him the less I want to be with him, and I'm a pretty transparent person, not a good actress at all. Any love I felt is fading fast and being replaced with disgust, so a six-month plan A may be too long for me. I'm trying to take it one day at a time, though.<BR>

Dear Conqueror,<P>Did you get MB to help you w/ your plan A ?. You need a good plan A adn then you have to excute plan B if WS still stuck in the fog. Do not even lecture him or tell him what to do, it is not part of plan A. Plan A is to make your self be a better choice and person to your WS. It is hard and many people could not do it at all, I have to drink pepacid every day just to calm down my tummy.<P>For sex ... I am in the same boat, I have none for the past 8 months and no good one in the past year. If you have no issue, try Vib. Hang in there. If you could afford it get help from MB, I can not do it alone by reading this web site. After I found this site few weeks ago, I call MB and get help to put plan A. By reading and understanding all the concept you save a lot of time and money.<P>I guess I still have to howl every night and hurt me more when my W stay with OM.<P><P>------------------<BR>Give your absolute best such that you could look back 10 years from now w/ no regret.

Hi - Conqueror, Still Hopeful - sorry to hear about your situation. I'm also trying to do plan A while my wife is conducting affairs, four of them since January that I know about. It's hard, and a few months ago I started counseling with Steve Harley to keep going. Now I'm probably at the point of starting plan B. The only success I've had re the marriage, is that I did head off my wife's initial plans to file for divorce. We're not anywhere close to beginning a recovery. But I have made improvements in my own behavior, I have a better relationship with my kids, and I feel that I'm doing everything I can to save the marriage at this point, as a result of plan A. So those are reasons to keep trying.<P>If your H will not stop the affair and agree to no contact, that limits what you can do in plan A but there is still a plan A. The bottom line is to avoid love busters, and that means no excessive repeated pressure to do counseling if they aren't willing. It also means don't play on their feelings of guilt.<P>If you find there has been contact with OW, or other similar things that upset you, don't confront your H with that unless he agreed there would be no contact. The recovery can't actually start until he agrees to no contact, and takes the appropriate measures (change job, move from small town, or at least "run away" from her in public so that people can notice he's avoiding her). It sounds like you are not in recovery yet.<P>There are boundaries in plan A, but those are for dangerous things like physical abuse. Once he understands that the affair and the contact are not acceptable to you, then you don't have to repeat it every day or even every week. You will be able to tell when he changes.<P>In the meantime, look for small opportunities to meet his needs. Huge, wholesale changes may be difficult to sustain and difficult for H to accept. (Conqueror, if your H is willing to have sex maybe get a second opinion on waiting another six months, combined with whatever you know about OW. There are risks both ways - there is a risk to every decision in life. This bears thinking about because there are so few opportunities to meet his needs in a plan A where the affair is still ongoing.)<P>This process of avoiding LB eventually leads you to feel like a doormat, like you are enabling the affair. Feelings of love dwindle. Those are signs to begin plan B. I think you also have to be at the point of truly accepting things may not work out.<P>This is the only way I've been able to make it seven months in plan A. We've had ups and downs, but it's not because I've LBed. There's been enough time for the affairs to burn out, if they were going to. This is the only way to have had any chance at all.<P>- Tom