Hi,<p>I wanted to get a feel from those who have been there...<p>How do you know when Plan A just isn't working and it's time for Plan B?<p>My wife has been waffling for about 2 months now, and some days, I think she's ready to stay, and other days, she's ready to go.<p>I am a strong person with good coping skills (according to our counsellor), but it's getting ridiculous, especially to see her go between such extremes in a matter of hours. (She works with the OM and usually it gets worse and worse throughout the week.) It makes examining progress impossible, because I believe there's really been very little with the way she behaves.<p>The other problem is that my wife is not allowing me to meet her emotional needs, as Plan A requires. She either scoffs skeptically or withdraws. Her emotional distance makes it tough to do what I need. I find she doesn't even want to talk to me openly and fully - she's determined to see our counsellor alone, balks at going together ("that'd be working on us"), etc. Any ideas?

JR - if she has not broken off with OM, then you won't see much positive feedback on your plan A efforts. That's been my experience and also what Steve Harley told me what to expect. You have to judge, for yourself, the positive changes in your own behavior. Sometimes you might get indirect feedback from a friend of your wife's. But your wife probably won't encourage or acknowledge your efforts while the affair is ongoing.<p>On whether it's time for plan B, consider mainly your own feelings and how much longer you can keep up plan A. Of course it's risky to go on plan B, and you want to do it while your feelings are still good and your plan A still strong. Definitely not at the end of a bad spell, which would then be seen as cause-and-effect. <p>Even if she's not outwardly acknowledging plan A, she'll know where things stand. The key is not to judge it based on whether plan A appears to be "working" or not.<p>I've been in plan A since February. Each situation is different. But I think you need to go several months in order to establish a credible pattern of positive change in yourself. When you start plan B, there's no more plan A, so you want to leave her with the best image possible under the circumstances.<p>- Tom

Thanks, Tom<p>Could I ask a couple of further questions from you (and anyone else)?<p>Were you in a situation where your wife resisted "working on us"? Are you there now? Given that you've been in plan A for so long, I assume this is likely the case. How emotionally distant did she make herself - my wife has shown next to zero affection, hates to say that she loves me, likes to talk about "if I leave...", etc. She won't even open up enough to tell me what emotional needs are important to her and not being filled - I guess I have to make assumptions and try to fill everything - and for her, that comes across as "pressure, pressure, pressure." Maybe I'm not in the right mind-set or something.<p>How much turmoil was / is your wife in? For mine, it seems like at points she's going to lose her mind. Earlier in the week, I thought she was happy to consider staying, then mid-week, she's back to looking at me with what I perceive as disdain. And it wasn't like I'd done any LB things in the mean-time. The OM isn't going anywhere while she's still working where she is, and she isn't quitting her job until she decides to stay with me, which isn't happening until the OM is gone -- true deadlock.<p>One thing that was interesting to me - she commented along the way that she thought if she left and didn't like it, she could win me back. I had to let her know that she should consider her decision as being permanent. I also let her know that contact wouldn't be possible. These points trouble her greatly, I can tell, so I know she has feelings for me - at some level anyway. If she does leave, I guess that becomes my Plan B by default. Has anyone else had this happen, and what can I expect from that? That outcome seems to be less promising than my leaving at a time when I'm behaving the way she wants me to be.

JR - yes, it's all of that. My wife spoke to Steve Harley once in July, just to "set him straight" on our prospects, and has refused to participate since then. She rebuffs any direct effort to meet her needs. Sex is out. She does have wide mood swings, but those are tied to the ups and downs of her outside life. It's not because I LBed, and that might be the case for you, too.<p>She's had 4 OMs that I know of since January, so that's a bit different from your case.<p>If your wife says that she feels pressure from you, then you have to back off and take baby steps. First she has to feel comfortable with you. Make small explorations and only try to meet needs in the areas she will allow. If you push too hard it's a love-buster. In the situation she's in, still seeing OM, you have to build up a record of time with no love-busters, then hope she gives you some opportunities to do more. <p>It's hard, because the light at the end of the tunnel is when something goes sour with the OM. You have no control over when or if that happens. I think the only alternative to that waypoint, is plan B. Whether you are in plan A or plan B when the affair goes sour, you want to be the one she can turn back to. So right now, the main thing is avoiding the love-busters.<p>If she moves out, you could still write the plan B letter, or some variation of it. The phrasing has to be pretty careful; you would love to have her back, but there can't be contact with OM if she comes back and she must be willing to work on the marriage. Without sounding like an ultimatum. Lots of people draft their plan B letters and post them for comments here, or on the GQ2 forum (which gets more traffic).<p>Plan A is still an option if she moves out, of course, it's harder. You indicated that you're trying to fill every need and that she feels pressure. That's a pretty strong argument for continuing a revised plan A, even if she moves out. Once you go to plan B, the next step could be a divorce, so you have to be sure in your own mind that you've done the best you can in plan A.<p>In your place, I would try real hard to discourage her moving out. Paradoxically, I think that means backing off a little bit.<p>- Tom