Dear friends,<p>I post alot on prayer requests, b/c my faith is what has been getting me through this situation. You may refer to any of my old posts to get a real good picture of what's going on now. Especially today. I've been doing what MB would call a good plan A, until yesterday. H emailed me and told me it was over. H is seeing OW (who lives 3 states away in my hometown). Last D day was July 3,01. H moved out in 9/01 when I said to either live faithfully or move out. I jumped the gun and filed for D on get this-- 9/11 at 10 a.m. The events of our nation and within my own family that day brought me down so low that I probably did in fact break down. <p>Found a good counselor and somehow, because God restored my faith again, I picked up the good fight. We have a 3 yr old son by the way. Been showing him unconditional love for the last month or so. Been kind, sweet, and tried to be there for him anyway I could. H is very controlling. Has broken into my emails and read where I go to on web and insists on knowing the code to our voice mail or he will stop paying bills. H said he would consider moving back Nov. 1, but that day most certainly has come and gone. He instead found another way to blame me and find rationalizations why he is right in abandoning his family and wife. We moved here 8 months ago from my hometown. All my friends, family are there. Thought his OW was history. Oh, was so wrong. She is manipulative and very, very sick. <p>Yesterday, I hit rock bottom again like I did on 9/11. Couldn't stop crying and shaking all day and night. Son was visiting w/my inlaws last night and will spend the day and night tonight w/dad. I am barely able to function here. He emailed me yesterday and lowered the boom, again. <p>First and foremost, I'd like to say that if there is any way possible, I want to restore my M and family. I know that God heals and restores all things, even miserably broken ones like me. <p>Here is my question. 1) How long do you do plan A? Have I given it up too soon? They say that you need to end plan A on a very positive note, and I just did major LB (can refer to my other posts). I'm getting so weak.<p>2) When do you decide to move to B? Our home is still on the market in other city and all friends and family are there. Do not know if I can handle another break like last night and today again all alone. He moved us here, I think, so he could totally be in control of me, his son, and OW. So he could truly have cake and eat it too. I need to heal me. It is so hard when you see the man you love and would do anything for, drowning in his own lies and self-hatred. He refuses to work w/me on anything, says he will see my counselor (to show her he's not a bad guy), not made any promises to move towards reconciliation since 10/9 and is seeing OW. In fact, OW wanted to fly in to "help him" through his difficult time. H called and said he was drunk and couldn't take it anymore. That his business is too demanding, and here I am and he can't stand hurting me anymore. What a gem this OW. My H can't stand himself b/c of what he's done to his own family and still blames me for it. <p>So, advice please from all of you who are in the valley of the shadow for this lost lamb. I am trusting God blindly,as I do not know what to do at all. He is cfo of a good company, made too much too soon and forgot where he came from. Forgot that I helped him along the way. Had first A when our son was 11 mos. old. My son has never known what it is like to have a dad really be there for him. H has never consulted an attorney, even alluding that he wants me to be the one to do it. Heeeelp! I have so much love but am down for the count now. Want to save it, but where to go, what to do? Somehow think that the only way to make it through the holidays is to move home. To spend time w/family and friends and get a job. Not file for D again, just move home. Tried a very feeble, poor attempt once early in august w/plan b--ended up talking to him, sleeping w/him. Why would I feel dirty about that? I do. I'm the W. Not the OW. <p>My brain and soul tell me that this has to be left up to God now. But in the meanwhile, what are wise choices in how to handle him? Counselors give good advice, but they're not dug in, on the front lines, fighting for their families and counting wins/losses on a daily basis. We are. I am praying for all of you who are here. We are bound by misfortune, but loved and will be healed by God. We are together in this, and in our faith, we will persevere, even as I believe now, that my armor is now too heavy to carry anymore. My day of evil has arrived.<p>"Therefore put on the full armor of God so that when the day of evil comes you may be able to stand your ground; and after having done everything, to stand."

Here are my vitals for better insight:
Married 5/3/4 years
dated 2 years
DDay 1--1/6/01
DDay 2--7/3/01<p>Same Ow
H moved out 9/01
Me filed for D 9/11 but he has never been served and is considered a "dead" file b/c we've been intimate. Would need to be refiled probably. <p>H deep in fog w/OW
OW deep in fog w/H
A has been on for almost a year
OW lives 3 states away and is like the flu--always comes back, gets more resistant the harder you fight it

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Not peachy in GA:
<strong>Here are my vitals for better insight:
Married 5/3/4 years
dated 2 years
DDay 1--1/6/01
DDay 2--7/3/01<p>Same Ow
H moved out 9/01
Me filed for D 9/11 but he has never been served and is considered a "dead" file b/c we've been intimate. Would need to be refiled probably. <p>H deep in fog w/OW
OW deep in fog w/H
A has been on for almost a year
OW lives 3 states away and is like the flu--always comes back, gets more resistant the harder you fight it</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Hi, Peachy,
I, like you, post in a lot of other places! I saw (and responded) in Prayer Requests, and now I see something I want to respond to here....<p>It figures it's the same OW. It almost sounds like your WH moved you to another state to get AWAY from her, but his addiction is strong! SHE knows it. Pray for HIM.....he is acting so terrible cause he CAN'T get away from her. He tried. He moved you away, and SHE IS COMING (or already has come) here now.<p>Second point: I certainly see it as "God's Providence" that once you "were intimate" with your OWN H, it invalidates your D. papers! Is this God's "protection" or WHAT?!?!?! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>My advice (FWIW) is DO NOT file again now. You should be doing Plan A as much as possible. HOWEVER, I think if you want to go back to home state and spend holidays with family, you should GO! You can explain to WH (IF he cares!) that with him "pre-occupied" and holidays coming, you are lonely, and want to be around family for support and love.<p>I don't believe you have been doing Plan A long enough to go to full-blown Plan B. I was in favor of it this morning, over in Prayer Requests, and almost posted as much, BUT now, after seeing your stats posted, I think not. Just go home for undetermined amount of time just to "think" and be with family and loved ones. Good enough. Almost the same effect as Plan B. IF he wants to call and talk, I would do Plan A by phone.<p>My .02. Others may have better advice, since I am doing long-distance Plan A (fairly well, don't know HOW effective!), and have not gone to Plan B. Since WH moved HIMSELF OUT before I even knew about A,(and in w/OW and doesn't initiate talks w/me) - I doubt a Plan B would be effective for me!<p>Lupo

Hello again friend (lupo) and all else:<p>Lupo (what an incredible new friend I have):
He did not move here to get away from her. She is a pharmaceutical sales rep and he moved here to centralize his business b/c his business partner lived too in another state. It was simply a business decision. <p>I agree w/doing plan A, but I am soooo broken. I am calling for an appt. w/steve harley by phone. I like the indeterminate amount of time thing, but I did that two times during the spring. Gone once for a week, next time for two. After putting me through hell yesterday, H sends me an email saying that he wishes me a "peaceful" day. Oh, how the irony gets me. I struggle to even be able to type, pray and he wishes me this during all of his escapades. I have never tried B. I think doing a very, indeterminate A could be good. I almost think to save me, that I must move home. While on my visit, I've got a friend's headhunter looking for me a job. Also, it seems that (is God saying something here?) my old clinical position at the same hospital (where some of my old friends are) is now open again. Hmmm. <p>What I'm afraid of, is that I can't make it through the holidays. My family wants me back, they know I cannot take another day. So do his parents. All of our family is in hometown area and support me moving back, if I want to. I am NOT going to refile. Not at all. I have drafted a sorta plan b letter and filed it away on computer. If A does not yeild results, I will send him this, maybe while I'm gone, asap. I am going to give this thing one good try again, friend. I am praying also for you doing this too. <p>He has made no whatsoever committment to me or to ending his A. He has said that he would "consider" going to my counselor. He is soo lost. We got engaged on Thanksgiving, in front of both of our families and that and Christmas are right ahead of us. Am afraid I will fall apart again. <p>Just alot of false hopes and nothing in return. I will put on my armor for another day again. Pray for me as I try to do this again. <p>Will chat w/you later. Armor going on, and I'm actually going out (just to get my eyebrows waxed). Thank you my friend. <p>"Therefore put on the full armor of God so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground; and after having done EVERYTHING to stand."

I agree w/doing plan A, but I am soooo broken. I am calling for an appt. w/steve harley by phone. <p>You are in a good hand. Steve helps me a lot.<p> While on my visit, I've got a friend's headhunter looking for me a job. Also, it seems that (is God saying something here?) my old clinical position at the same hospital (where some of my old friends are) is now open again. Hmmm. <p>Wait in patience, God will open doors for you the one that is meant for you.<p>What I'm afraid of, is that I can't make it through the holidays. My family wants me back, they know I cannot take another day. So do his parents. All of our family is in hometown area and support me moving back, if I want to. I am NOT going to refile. Not at all. I have drafted a sorta plan b letter and filed it away on computer. <p>You should delete that plan B letter just in case you send them in the heat of an anger. It is good you have plan for plan B ... what if ...<p>If A does not yeild results, I will send him this, maybe while I'm gone, asap. I am going to give this thing one good try again, friend. I am praying also for you doing this too. <p>It is always good to know your limit.<p>He has made no whatsoever committment to me or to ending his A. He has said that he would "consider" going to my counselor. He is soo lost. <p>Get him to call Steve, my WW does and she is getting more confuse. You want H to be off balance.<p>We got engaged on Thanksgiving, in front of both of our families and that and Christmas are right ahead of us. Am afraid I will fall apart again. <p>It is not LB if you tell H nicely that you can not have Christmas w/ H this time due to the current situation. No judgment and no demand, just plain fact.<p>Just alot of false hopes and nothing in return. I will put on my armor for another day again. Pray for me as I try to do this again. <p>In plan A you are not suppose to get anything ... nada.<p>Will chat w/you later. Armor going on, and I'm actually going out (just to get my eyebrows waxed). Thank you my friend. <p>Good, live your life, get busy other than thinking WS.<p>"Therefore put on the full armor of God so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground; and after having done EVERYTHING to stand."<p>Amen [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Dear REd Hat,<p>Thank you for advice. Called the counseling center and left my info and made arrangements to get counseling w/him. <p>You still think I should do Plan A. I need to know really when you think b should become effect. He is very controlling and I feel that if I leave, even just for a few weeks, I'll get a little stronger. Am not crying or shaking for last hour. Took xanex and am mellowing. Have an MD friend who can write it without it going through insurance. He did it to protect me (knows H) and wants him never to use it against me. <p>Little more insight: H very powerful cfo of company. OW is pharmaceutical sales rep. Both are in professions where you learn psych of sales. They are master salesman and could sell poo poo to a cattle farmer (like he would need any more any how). I am going to go to your posts and read. <p>I am praying too, for you my friend, and your family. We are under heavy fire my friend from satan. He loves to destroy marriages. Having phone conversation in am with my counselor here. She is helping me w/ MB concept and Love Must Be Tough approach. She also was a victim once of this kind of thing. I think that's why she makes an excellent Christian counselor. H said he would go see her and H doesn't know her, her background, or how tough and wise at same time. Also loving, but nevertheless tough at getting things across to me. Right now, I'm so lost w/my perceptions of everything, that I couldn't fight my way out of a paper bag. Funny, my minor degree was psychology....<p>"Therefore put on the full armor of God and when the day of EVIL comes you may be able to stand; and after having done EVERYTHING to stand.<p>God Bless You.

Peach,
Yes, I do ... a lot of poster miss understood plan A or do partial plan A that get them into trouble. I think Steve will say the same thing. You do plan B to protect yourself and when you are done with "fixing" any issues that H have on you. I still have some issues that I have to work on myself therefore I stay in plan A. Steve will tell you when to do plan B.
He is very controlling and I feel that if I leave, even just for a few weeks, I'll get a little stronger.
Even in plan A,you could take a breather ... as long as no LB. You could take a week vacation from H but let him know and do not push it. LB is defined by WS.
Am not crying or shaking for last hour. Took xanex and am mellowing.
Plan A/B is not for everyone ... you could do plan A from far too w/o calling for plan B.
Have an MD friend who can write it without it going through insurance. He did it to protect me (knows H) and wants him never to use it against me. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] Get it from your doctor and explain you are under stress ...<p>I am praying too, for you my friend, and your family. We are under heavy fire my friend from satan. He loves to destroy marriages. Having phone conversation in am with my counselor here. She is helping me w/ MB concept and Love Must Be Tough approach. She also was a victim once of this kind of thing. I think that's why she makes an excellent Christian counselor. H said he would go see her and H doesn't know her, her background, or how tough and wise at same time. Also loving, but nevertheless tough at getting things across to me.
good, get him to conseling too.
Right now, I'm so lost w/my perceptions of everything, that I couldn't fight my way out of a paper bag. Funny, my minor degree was psychology....
[img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] only if WS know what harm that BS has to endure [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] Take a deep breath and try to focus on something else other than H. I am focusing on my 2 D ... once in a while they called me mom. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Dear RedHat,<p>More info about H. He is very controlling and does believe that he should be the one to control and manipulate others. Does it w/employees, does it with me, does it w/OW. No one tells him what to do. I could ask till I'm blue in the face and it would not matter. He told me in his email that no matter whay you say, what you do, I will not change my mind. He is a very strong personality and hard-headed. So I can't get him into seeing this counselor. He is mentally controlling of me and has had some very destructive behavior when he doesn't get hiw way. Almost like he blows a fuse. Has thrown things, (although not at me) and wreaked havoc.
He is so lost and he does not know it. He is spinning, swirling down out of control and I can do nothing to help him. He shut me out of his life. Only his OW as per his email has "kept me sane". Those words broke me. Not only b/c he is leaning and confiding in her, but because it shows the A is still ongoing without any remorse or regret. She is co-dependent upon him and also very, very self-centered. <p>Think that maybe she wants just to be the one who is still there hanging in when the crap hits the fan so she can jump into my place. She is shrews, also in sales and very good, from what I'm told. He's shared w/her all of my shortcomings and she is smart enough to listen and never do anything like that at all. He doesn't believe this, but she is in for the kill. She is going to take our family down (with of course, Satan's help) and consideres this ok with herself. She is a proven liar and has had other affairs w/married men. H just doesn't know the facts I do. I try to not LB by bringing them up personally.<p>Am at end of rope here. Son returning this afternoon and do not want to see H. I can't survive this way anymore. Called and got answering machine at counseling HQ for Steve Harlan. Hopefully he'll call soon. Want to be going home next week. My counselor here is supposed to call me today as well.<p>Thank you for your advice and your prayers. I am in turn, praying for you too. May God bless you. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Dear REdHat,<p>Question: are you a firefighter? Just wondered. Your sign on name is really neat and I like to see into people by how they use their sign on names. Hope you have a great day.
Also, have read Plan A and Plan B concepts. What book are they in? Saw the articles about them here, but am not sure what book they are in. Please help me find that book? Many, many thanks. Asked about the firefighter thing b/c my son's favorite show is "rescue heroes" on sat. mornings. He loves the "billy blazes" character who is a fireman. Thanks again. Will check back w/you today. Hope today is well for you. You are prayed for and so is your W and family.

Dear Lupo,<p>Just thought again about your reply. My H moved out 9/01 and I am not sure if B will get any response at all from him. Help me think about this and our situations. I just do not want to be here, where he can come in and visit us whenever he pleases. Usually, it's not for long. H said I will be out of our home by Jan 1. That I should have a job and new place to stay (which he will pay for). But we have our home in our hometown. It's beautiful, empty, up for sale, and we are still paying the note. That's another consideration. All H wants is me closeby to be caretaker of his son, and convenience. It would make him have to actually do something to arrange to have to visit his son back home. He's had things too easy. He lives near cool, downtown area w/fully furnished (nice antique furniture & everything) bachelor pad. OW has visited him there and was shocked when in our one conversation, that I'd slept w/my own H there one day. What a loser. Gave a possible nickname for her to redhat. May still change it for her. My H's nickname to me is "Waffle House King" b/c he waffles more than anyone I've ever met. <p>Still crushed. Yet, God's grace got me up today and I will try to carry armor again. I'm really down still. Need more advice on a and b thing. Hope Steve Harlan gets in touch soon, b/c I want to leave this week to go home. Overload here. Feel like I'm living in this beautiful prison entombed in memories of a life that could have been. A monument to a fallen family. I really picked a good day to file for D. No one could imagine the horrible triggers I face each day. Each time I hear of that day, see news, I feel this: another family went down that day too. Because of the crashes, the war ensued. I do not want to D him and am doing as you say, I will not refile. H is getting more distant, more cruel with all remarks. Although yesterday he sent me email saying he wished I had a "peaceful weekend". How in the good Lord's name could he write that? Just knowing of the horrible crash I experienced. My counselor is phoning me today, I am going to put their efforts (hers and Steve Harlans) into a symbiotic effort and try, as hard as I can, to persevere. <p>Please keep offering advice and wisdom. Greatly appreciated. I'm praying for you too.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Not peachy in GA:
<strong>Dear REdHat,<p>Question: are you a firefighter? Just wondered. Your sign on name is really neat and I like to see into people by how they use their sign on names. Hope you have a great day.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I am a software engineer. RedHat is a Linux distributor company. There as a thread about how you pick sign on names.<p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Also, have read Plan A and Plan B concepts. What book are they in? Saw the articles about them here, but am not sure what book they are in. Please help me find that book? Many, many thanks.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>SAA, surviving an affair. Actually I learn more by reading the articles here and reading MB veteran's post on the subject. In SAA the plan A/B is decribed only in a few pages ... I think they should give more info on the subject.<p>Peachy, you are also on my prayer list. I just came back from Sunday night church activity. I learn that our funding father never say "separation of church & state". It was the opposite and 1962's court started it w/ no precedence.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> <strong> ...He is mentally controlling of me and has had some very destructive behavior when he doesn't get hiw way. Almost like he blows a fuse. Has thrown things, (although not at me) and wreaked havoc. </strong> <hr></blockquote><p>Plan A/B is not for physical or mental abusive relation. Safety first ... I am glad you will get MB conseling<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>He is so lost and he does not know it. He is spinning, swirling down out of control and I can do nothing to help him. He shut me out of his life. Only his OW as per his email has "kept me sane". Those words broke me. Not only b/c he is leaning and confiding in her, but because it shows the A is still ongoing without any remorse or regret. She is co-dependent upon him and also very, very self-centered. </strong><hr></blockquote>
He is not only in his fog but have problem on self control. I am not a shrink but I think H can not stand to see strong and independent you. Ignored anything that H says for now so that you could concentrate on handeling your issues. Do not push or do anything that will upset H ... it is LB.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong> She is a proven liar and has had other affairs w/married men. H just doesn't know the facts I do. I try to not LB by bringing them up personally.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Good, let A die naturally. You have a good chance but you have to be patience and strong. It will hurt H more when he find it out by himself.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Am at end of rope here. Son returning this afternoon and do not want to see H. I can't survive this way anymore. Called and got answering machine at counseling HQ for Steve Harlan. Hopefully he'll call soon. Want to be going home next week. My counselor here is supposed to call me today as well.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hangin there ... plan A is very, very hard ... you need all the help that you can have. Steve will help you there. But your chances are good, A is out of the bag ... in time OW will crack ... no support from family ... H has problem that will LB'ed OW sooner or later. Hang in there. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Peach,
I hope you've had a chance to counsel w/ Steve Harley already, and if anything I say contradicts anything he's advised, definitely go with his advice!<p>But one thing that just jumped out at me as I read this thread was the feeling that you have to stop any talks about the marriage or your relationship with each other and definitely no talk about OW. If I were in your place, I would NEVER bring it up, and if H brings it up, change the subject if you gracefully can or just listen and not react if you can't.<p>I would not contact him at all. If he contacted me, I would act as if he were a suitor. I would be pleasant, upbeat, cheerful, attractive, positive and engaging in every way, BUT I would limit the contact. I would be the first to gracefully end the call. In fact, I have caller ID and an answering machine, and I would only return every third call or so because I would be very busy living my life.<p>If asked to meet in person for any reason, I'd be busy, and then maybe the next time I'd agree, and I'd be sure to have to run to another appointment or meeting with friends while he was still enjoying my company. I'd answer his Emails sporadically and be very friendly, but brief and light.<p>In short, I'd do everything possible to re-create my persona as it was when H was attracted to me in the beginning. I would work at being a magnet, not a net.<p>Some helpful books for encouraging and reinforcing this type of course and attitude are Divorce Busting and The Divorce Remedy by Michele Weiner-Davis. Website: www.divorcebusting.com<p>It doesn't sound like you had a chance to do a good plan A to lay the foundation for plan B, so this may be a good interim plan.<p>This is the plan I followed when H was still living at home and I started catching on there was an A going on and also during the time we were separated. I think of it as a limited plan A. It kind of falls in between a full plan A and plan B, and I think in some cases it can be very compatible with MB. For instance, while H was home during the A, I would not meet his needs for sexual fulfillment or affection, but would do everything else and made myself as alluring and enjoyable to be around as possible. I think this is what caused a crisis that made him decide to move out to "think". I think it knocked him off balance to be attracted to me again.<p>He was only gone for six days. I wrote him a letter in which I apologized for my mistakes and failure to meet his needs in the M, thanked him for his love and protection during the M, enclosed my wedding ring that he placed on my finger on our wedding day as a token of his pledge and commitment to me because I didn't feel it belonged to me anymore, and stated that if and when he ever wanted to renew that commitment and place the ring back on my finger as an enduring symbol of that, I would consider it.<p>The next day he called and wanted to talk. We talked all night long, during which he confessed to the A and wanted to reconcile. (If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't have agreed to his moving back in so quickly without a definite step-by-step plan (SAA) and a signed agreement (like the Marriage Recovery Agreement in SAA)). But even though in hindsight I wish I'd negotiated the reconciliation better than I did, I was definitely successful in attracting him back to me, and from that day he started telling me he loved me, and within a month said he was "in love" with me.<p>So, just my experience. The main thing is to keep doing what seems to be working and making it better and eliminate what makes it worse.<p>Conqueror