Dear Friends,<p>H made it clear that he was going to continue seeing OW today. I've been doing A thing pretty good w/o many LB at all. We came close to a reconciliation as he said he might move home Nov. 1. Instead, two days ago I receive email telling me that it's over and offered me a settlement to send to my attorney. H is extremely controlling (demands access to emails, voicemail or will threaten to stop paying for bills). He has made ZERO attempts to go to any form of counseling together, although he claims he will go to see my counselor (why even bother if going by himself?). He is controlling to the point that he says that any settlement he decides is the one that will stand. That he does no longer care for me or could ever live w/me. He has been seeing OW (who lives 3 states away) for one year now, and says that she "keeps him sane". Ironic, how such a party which is contributing to the insanity itself could be called the peacekeeper? She is also manipulative. (both are in sales, different fields). My H could sell poo to a cattle rancher. H is that good. He is and has to stay in control of everything. H lives bachelor lifestyle in cool, hip part of town in apt. and has little responsibilities. He sees son not that much. H had first A when our son was just 14 mos. old. <p>Please refer to my other posts here: prayer requests, general questions (when A hits light of day) and here for information about us. I need advice. Spent two days shaking and crying. He comes over to our home and sees son (and me) when he likes. He even told me today that I looked beautiful? H has convenient lifestyle. Bachelor cool life and suburban dream all at once. I have NO FAMILY AND FEW FRIENDS here. He moved here for his job. <p>Decided to send him a b letter via email tonight. He hasn't read it yet. I am going home to where my family is for undetermined amount of time. I need the support of family and friends now. He can no longer have it all. It is destroying both myself and my son. Need peace now. To be away from his controlling and destructive behavior. He has been verbally cruel and also in other ways I shall not discuss. <p>I want our M to work, but am powerless and left it up to God. Possibility that I may be permanently leaving and moving back home. Today, before leaving H told me that I had to leave our home here by Jan. 1 and look for new home. Our old home in our home town is still on market and I said I would go there. H is pushing and wanting the best of both worlds--to have me and son in the suburbs while living la vida loca in Buckhead w/OW. My armor is on, full strength and I will begin packing for home. Just bringing clothes (enough for 3 weeks) and toys for son. Will stay w/mother or sister. H is in need to see that we will be gone. H has said so many times over last 6 mo. that he has stopped seeing OW, but never followed through and never made an attempt at reconciliation. I can take no more. Gave it to God today. Know it was not smart, but sent a email to OW to explain to her what they have done to this family. We are going down in flames and H is doing nothing. H cursed me over phone so much this weekend. I can no longer stay in a city w/no support, no family and certainly no love (except from God, my son, and 3 friends). It is now become too much. <p>H must now make decision to decide. Pray, like the Prodigal son, that he will return. Must have the slop first. He's had the best of both worlds since leaving in August. D day was 7/3/01. H is non-remorseful totally about his A. I cannot take this any more. I broke down on Friday and stayed down until today. My physical and mental health cannot allow this kind of treatment any more. Please pray for us. It is going to be so hard. I love him and yet, do not like who he has become. H is like an alien. I love the man I married, not this one. Invasion of the body snatchers. <p>Please pray for me. I know some of my friends here believe I should continue in A, but are unaware of the horrible pain and controlling abuse I endure from H. I will keep you posted. H has never gone more than 3 days w/o ever speaking to me or one week without seeing me. <p>Pray, please. Situation is desperate now.<p>"Therefore put on the full armor of God so that when the day of EVIL comes you may be able to stand; and after having done EVERYTHING to stand."

Peach,
This is what I am afraid of, you send it in anger and resentment. Also you leave H with LB. "Giving it to God" means wait. Looking at your situation you have better chances to save your M than me. I pray for your situation and it might be good to stay away from H for a while.<p>When is your C w/ Steve ?, call in as emergency early morning. Q: could you delete the email and wait until you spoke to Steve ?. You might want to still "visit" your family for a week to give yourself a breather.<p>I will be praying for you and checking in again in a while.

Dear RedHat,<p>I sent it and can unsend it. I got so absolutely mad that I sent copy of it along w/a forward to OW about turning from her sin, that I am praying for her, etc. and that this is what adultery does to a family.<p>H called this morning and I am unsure if he knows or not. Did not answer the phone. H has been and is very controlling, to the point that I feel like a prisoner. H doesn't want me to go anywhere (any places like he does), goes beserk even if I talk to men from my separation group bible study and like that. Will try to unsend but what good would it do? He's always had his way and gets pretty scary when I do not do what he wants. <p>I am speaking to my other counselor today.My appt. w/Steve is Wed. morning. I am leaving Saturday.<p>Thank you and pray hard for us.

Peach,<p>You are always on my prayer. You do what you have to do. Take care of yourself first that is what important right now.<p>Forget about the email it had been sent. Just play it as the day comes to unravel. Keep your self cool down and take a few seconds before you do anything or say anything to H. Just behave normal and make "safe" environment for both of you. If H didn't mention about email-B, do not even engage it. If H is "nicer" ... enjoy it, and do something that H would enjoy. If H mad about it you have to calm down and bite your tounge. Do what you have to to calm him down ... make him feel safe to let you go for a while by assuring that you will be there for H and call him daily. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] Do what you have to 'till Saturday.<p>Very controlling H will not stand being ignored but you have to keep your head cool too. You actually could negotiate with H when the time come. With loving & caring you could make him understand that if H needs to know your whereabout any second H has to give up some. H might be very sucessful but H might be very insecure person to the border line of paranoid. However this is for future reference. Learn more in negotiation skill and what to do with this type of personality. A very sucessfull person usually also very controlling and need to be "in charge". It doesn't mean that you could not make H "feel in charge". [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>When you talk to Steve, ask & describe to him about your "plan A". IMVHO, I think you miss understood plan A and you LB several places. Again plan A is not for everyone, if I do not have God on my life I don't think I could stand this even a brief second. Some could do it even they are co-habitat while A is going on ... some prefer doing it from far. Cons. of doing it from far - it is hard to measure your progress in plan A. Pros. of doing it from far - it is very painfull to see the very person you dearly love could do such a thing plus if your plan A is very slow on making progress ( rule of thumb is 6 months ). 6 months to let H see that the changes are real, to let yourself trained to make those changes into a habit, to let A dies naturally.<p>You could save your M and more, building a very loving and caring M. You have come to the right place and have a good start. God says one spouse could save the other with faith in HIM. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>God bless you,

Dear RedHat,<p>Thanks so much for your insight. Spoke briefly w/H to tell him that our son is catching cold and taking him to ped. Then got off rather quickly (me). I immediately phoned him back and said that I was sorry for being rude or short, but I had sent him an email (could not resend,by the way) which would explain better why I cannot see him or speak to him anymore. He kinda laughed and said "What?" Like I was nutso. I was honest and said that I had sent it also to his OW and that I was praying for her too. <p>I am probably wrong and had not A'd for long enough. Unsure about all of it. Found out from inalaws that he said he needed to sell our home b/c he couldn't afford it anymore (it is expensive). Don't know if it was a ploy to cover up his true motives (trying to divorce) or not. Still upset that he had made these demands on me and wanted to me to send them to my attny (settlement). I did not. I am not actively filing anymore. Just want to go home for at least 3 weeks and see what happens. <p>He is so extremely controlling I had to even change my email pass. He says when I delete emails, that I'm hiding something, which I most certainly am not. Learned in psych classes that guilty folks think everyone else is guilty of same sins. Hmmm. I did forward to him before I got back online w/ya another email to him, here's how it goes [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] lease know that our family is WORTH MUCH MORE than the cost of a moving van. We will miss you. You know where we are if you want us. You can reach (name of counselor) at (phone #) and gave her address." Let him know that I love him and was still comitted in letter also. <p>My local counselor, whom I emailed a copy of my b letter, will be phoning me soon, so I will sign off for now. Thanks for your prayers and advice. I need your clear thoughts right now. God bless you and all here.

Oh, forgot that he's been moved out for 3 months now. OW has even flown in several times to visit him.

I hope your H is hiding his insecurity by controling what he has, in that case the table will turn in no time by "afraid of loosing control".<p>Keep us up to date ... I will be here reading your post & know that I pray for you 'till you pass this storm. I also prayed for your H to be able to see past his fog.

Thank you my friend.<p>Hope you had a good day at work, redhat.<p>Son is sick so we have peds appt in am, followed by my MD appt after (counselor has refered me to internist who specializes in helping people in our condition-depression. Am going to start anti-depressants.) Hopefully this will help.<p>Since I could not unsend email, found a beautiful card from flavia.com to send via email to him. To let him know that he is loved and prayed for. Did not want to go immediate into B without letting H know we love him and do not want to do this. <p>So you think that b/c H is a controller, that results may come quickly after my departure? I have left several times in the past to go home for a visit, but never said that I would look for job, consider my options, and stay for undetermined time period. My counselor will phone tonight after 8:30 p.m. I really believe that either H is so thick in the fog or that he really does not love me anymore. <p>Gosh it hurts. Like a knife. How do you deal with the lonliness? I went to Old Navy and bought some new jeans today (depression is great for weight loss and went down a size, although I'm petite) They were playing Christmas tunes and I started crying and shopping at the same time. Is this wierd or what. I do not know how I will make it alive through this thing. I mean, no remorse, no attempts at reconciliation so far, at least worthy ones to speak of except empty promises, and few at that. How do we keep hoping? I mean, I have my faith in God and that is what is keeping me somewhat sane now. I am lost.

Peachy,
Interestingly, when God moves me, He really MOVES me!! I mean, like INSTANTLY!<p>Maybe this is why the rush to get back "home." I personally think it is a good move. H brought you here to control you and the situation, so he could be w/OW whenever SHE came to town. In old town, everyone probably already knew about them. here, he thought you would be too intimidated to fight against him and her.<p>Wise move. GO BE with family/friends. You need a support base. This is too difficult to do alone. Doesn't mean you have to tell everyone about this. Just do as I do: "H works out of town." It's TRUE. Just that he's living W/HER. Well, THAT PART I leave out! [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>When you get to hometown, please get back on line here and keep us posted. We care. We want to help you rebuild your M. BUT "new, improved" M - NOT this mess! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>If he wants to rebuild this M, then LET HIM WORK for it! Let him prove it to you. Visits, flights to town (like he's doing w/HER, NO CONTACT w/OW anymore (EVER), gifts for you and son, and - of course - his remorse. Until that happens, you have to get strong and STAY STRONG! I know, easier said than done....<p>We will pray and help!<p>God Bless,
Lupo

I am also in GA. There are many times I wish I could go home to my family. I am also here for my H. No family but I do have friends. <p>I believe going home is the best thing you could do. It helps to have someone who loves and supports you around at a time like this. You are in my prayers, best of luck.

Peach, Please go home for a while,if for nothing else,than to rest, surrounded by those who love you.You aren't obligated to tell everyone everything,or anything at all,if you choose not to.But you are so worn out from all of this torment,(also torturing yourself)and you desperately need to get away,clear your mind,so you can hear God when He gives you the answers.I will continue to pray for you,as well as your family.Go home,Sweet Peachy,so you can stop crying and shaking if only for a little while,and listen with your heart for God's answers. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Thank you so much for your prayers and replies. Unfortunately, my family and his are now aware of H's A. <p>Please keep praying. H actually hasn't read B letter yet, didn't go into office today (makes me think OW may be here in town like she said she would--come and take care of him b/c he's so hurt about hurting his family). <p>H just called a little while ago and I was very kind, no LB done. I will be loving and kind from a distance.<p>H has had no remorse at all. Please pray for H and me and son. We're spriraling down. However, my counselor I will see Wed. afternoon, and I will have phone session w/Steve Harley Wed. morning. Going to try to get that armor back on and keep fighting for my family. Please pray that Holy Spirit pierces the tough outer shell around my H and break through to his heart. <p>Tommorrow is , as I've dubbed it, doctor day. In the am, the pediatrician for my son's cold, and in the pm is for me. I'm seeing an internist who was referred by my counselor. Specialty in medically dealing w/people like us who are needlessly suffering b/c of something WE DID NOT DO AND HAVE NO CONTROL OVER. That should also help. And I am packing my laptop to talk w/you. I am blessed to have new friends now, even if I can't see your faces yet. Thank you so very much, your prayers are worth more than you could ever know. God Bless and Keep You. I'll be faithfully online on/off during the day until I leave Sat. morning for my 6 hour drive home. Going to stay w/mom for a while, then at sister's. Will be continuing phone counseling w/my counselor here in GA. She is sooo good and is helping me do MB and Love Must Be Tough combo approach. <p>Please also pray that H will go see counselor. H keeps saying he will see her, but has not made appt. <p>You are all in my prayers.<p>"Therefore put on the full armor of God so that when the day of EVIL comes you may be able to stand your grouns; and after having done EVERYTHING to stand."

Peach,<p>It is really hitting me that you have to stop reacting to him. If you've read Love Must Be Tough, you know that the strategy is to state your position and your boundaries ONCE and then LET GO. Don't take any of his bait. Don't run after every bone he throws. It seems like you're allowing yourself to be sucked into interaction with him and manipulation by him daily if not several times a day, and it is destroying you and not effecting any positive changes in him.<p>If you let go, what is the worst that can happen? Hasn't it already happened? Didn't he say he never wants to be with you again and wants a divorce? I don't think it can get any worse than that. What you've been doing (interacting w/H and OW) IS NOT WORKING. It seems to be pushing him further away.<p>And having gone through this with two different CHRISTIAN husbands, I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that ANY reference to God, sin, religion, prayer, and the like when they are deep in the A and not ready to hear it, no matter how lovingly it may be intended, is major LBing to them, and they will avoid you like the plague. My advice is to pray your heart out, but NEVER mention it or anything related to it to H.<p>Peach, I am just agonizing with you over all this, and I wish I could reach out a steadying hand to you. You have options. You are not powerless. You can make changes in your behavior that could save your M. But you have to take control of yourself and your actions and your life. You will have powerful emotions during this time, but you can control your behavior. You can be proactive, not reactive.<p>As Dobson notes in Love Must Be Tough, when you set those boundaries and let go, you instantly feel better, a weight is lifted. You have already lost him, so it will not hurt to let him go and take better care of yourself. And likely it is the only chance of drawing him back to you.<p>Think back to your courtship days. Did you do anything like what you've been doing lately? What are the chances he would have been attracted to you and married you if you had? If you want him to be the man you fell in love with and married, then you have to be the woman he fell in love with and married. Don't you want to be her again? Wasn't she a lot happier than you are now? Go back, resurrect her.<p>Still praying for you.<p>Conqueror

I thought of another book that might be helpful if you have continued contact with H: How To Make A Man Fall In Love With You by Tracy Cabot. She teaches specific techniques to make you irresistable, and it is a good project to work on, practice, and keep your focus on to change your pattern of interaction with him. It will also help you feel more confident and in control.<p>I incorporated these techniques into my personality in my single days, and they really do work. I had over a dozen marriage proposals in the two years I was single between marriages, including 1st H wanting to reconcile. Too bad I slacked off during this current marriage, but I'm reading the book again to get back in practice.<p>These are just some positive, confidence-building things you can do. Once you start moving in this direction, you will discover more and keep getting stronger.<p>Conqueror

Dear Conqueror,<p>Yes, I'll get the book. You're right about Love Must Be Tough. I won't catch any more bones. H now believes my words. I am leaving Saturday and sent me an email saying that he can't ask have it on both ends and either that he's there for me or he's not. <p>Went to doc today and got pro active. Meds are going to take a few days (14) to build up in bloodstream, but it was amazing.. Doc had same thing happen to her and she lost 70 lbs. from depression from this. She was amazingly caring and attentive. Said she'd pray for me. H knows that I'm leaving and did say that he would see counselor tonight. I am not going to see him or phone him as per my B letter. Thank you so much, thank you for your advice. Keep on praying. I am praying too, for you. The only problem in me getting that book is hey, I'm not seeing him. How can I get him if I don't see him? B is for me, my sanity, yet I do believe that maybe this will jolt him into reality. Tomorrow is going to be a toughie. Got an am counsel w/Steve Harlan and a pm w/my counselor here. Pray hard for H. He is off balance and I know that MB says that is good for WS in fog. <p>Let me know how things are going with you. I am renewed somewhat today and am clinging on to faith. I thank my Heavenly Father for friends like you who are there to be loving and tough enough for me too. Thank you and thanks for helping me fight the good fight.<p>"Therefore put on the full armor of God so that when the day of EVIL comes you may be able to stand your ground; and after having done EVERYTHING to stand."

Hi Peachy - sounds like a lot has happened these past several days. Hopefully Steve and your local counselor will be able to help you today.<p>For whatever it's worth, at this point, I do think it's a good idea for you to go back home. I agree with some others in the various threads, that plan A has not been a solid foundation so far in your case. But the thing is, you really can't do a good plan A while cut off from your normal support systems. Each person is different. In my case, I work at home and that makes it harder, but I'm normally quiet and reserved, which possibly compensates. Praying helps. But this is obviously just eating you up. <p>One of the critical parts of plan A is avoiding love-busters, which includes attempts to "educate" your husband. One brief slip-up can undo weeks or months of an otherwise good plan A.<p>Another important part of plan A, is that it really focuses on improving you. It's not directly trying to win your husband back.<p>For those 2 reasons, I think it's good for you to go back to a more comfortable and familiar environment, where you have family and friends for support. I guess your husband already saw the plan B email? I'm not sure it has to be a full plan B, because if he comes to visit you and your son, you could try to plan A for those few days.<p>One of the things that helped me, was pruning out some activities from my life that were important, but stressful. You don't need more drains on your energy.<p>Good luck.<p>- Tom

TMMX,<p>Thank you for your insight. I have only spoken to him briefly and ended up in tears after speaking with him. I sent him two very loving emails which he stil has not read. I want it to be made clear, where my heart lies before I go. I do not know how long I'll be gone. Probably 2-3 weeks at most. I do not know how I'll make it through the holidays either. <p>It is hard to give your all when they do notlive with you anymore. Every time he pulls out of the driveway, I fall apart. Why doesn't it get easier? I miss him so much. <p>Saw a doctor and the meds haven't clearly taken effect yet, although xanex has kept me from the nausea feeling I have always. God, this part of the day hurts, I see out the window here and all the cars coming home after work is over. Coming home to their families. I sometimes think I hear him come in and plop his keys down on the counter. False echos. I love my H and son so much and nothing I can do. Help me find out what are some major LB that can or cause us problems now? I'll try not to preach. He thinks my faith is bunk. Guess only me actually knows otherwise. Morning to day, day to night it's all the same. I feel so worthless b/c H hasn't given us a try. Not even one. Says he will see counselor but has been saying that for a while. Counselor is excellent. So far, she's only had one couple (both in counseling) get a D. Killer batting average. If he'd only go up to mound and pitch..<p>Write me back and have a great day...I'm praying for you too. Seems that's all I'm good at.

Peachy - just print out your emails and mail them to him. From your posts, I'm sure you expressed your love for him very well. Leave him with those beautiful thoughts.<p>Plan B is for you. Make it longer than 2 or 3 weeks. Can you set a time limit of 3 months, through the holidays? I don't think your H has ever had to confront this, and it could have an impact on him.<p>Faith and prayer helps. Since this started I've been back to church regularly, and thought more seriously about what I believe. I don't know what religious denomination you are in, but in most of them, the concept of a faith community is important. This is the part you might be missing right now, having moved away from home recently. Few people can do it on their own.<p>Your H saying that faith is bunk would be par for the course. A wayward spouse has to set aside religious beliefs, general moral beliefs, marriage vows made in public, or whatever else would stand in the way of continuing an affair. So don't take that to heart.<p>- Tom

Why in the world would you want to save a marriage with a man like this. SAVE YOURSELF AND RUN!!!! FOR YOU AND FOR YOUR CHILDREN! Please.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Bonniebb:
<strong>Why in the world would you want to save a marriage with a man like this. SAVE YOURSELF AND RUN!!!! FOR YOU AND FOR YOUR CHILDREN! Please.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Who are YOU and why are you here?????<p>This is a MARRIAGE BUILDING site.......we DO NOT give advice like this here.<p>Thank you.<p>L