<BR>I saw what you posted to Alias. Thanks a bunch. i've been praying and praying, and praying.....I know it takes time. I guess I'm just impatient. To make me feel better, I keep telling myself that it's nothing I've done. I understand that he's not being rational right now. I want to grab him by the shoulders and shake the sh*t out of him!!! WAKE UP!!!! If only it was that easy!!

Mitzi,<P>My husband drinks too, and has done (and not done) a lot of things I have blamed on the drinking, some that he's blamed on the drinking too ... I have also done things that I have blamed on my anger that of course can only be blamed on his drinking and on the things he has or has not done ... <P>Maybe they need to wake up... but truthfully, a lot of times we need to wake up too. Sometimes two people disagree so strongly that a compromise just can not be made... there is no way to agree without great expense to one or the other... when an addiction also exists, it's easy for either party to just say that the other needs to "wake up"... maybe they are awake and just living life in a way so different from what we believe that we think they must not be facing reality.... maybe we are just not facing the reality that they will never agree with the way we want to live life? Facing that reality is very painful because the only healty option for both is to end the relationship so that each may live life in their own way, and both will probably get better away from the other rather than continuing in the unhealthy patterns.<P>Hope that makes sense... gues my point is don't be so sure that he is the only one who needs to "wake up".<P>Take Care... try alanon if you haven't already... you can't change your husband, you can only change yourself.<BR>

I'd like to try al-anon but there isn't one nearby. I welcome your opinion and I do agree. I do know, though, that he's capable of not drinking. He's quit before and just ends up backsliding. He only needs to chose his friends in a different way. I guess he just relates better to people who drink. And he doesn't get alot of support from his family either. Most of them drink also but don't seem to have a problem. And they never miss the chance to offer him a beer. It's just too available. I don't think they realize just how hard it is for him to not drink.

I am a recovering drunk and have been sober for almost 10 years. No matter how far away or how hard it is to get there. GO TO AL-ANON!!!!!! Go to one meeting a day for 90 days if possible. You will be amazed at the amount of love and support you will find there. Buy the "Big Book" of AA and the 12 Steps book. Try to learn as much about alcoholism as possible.<P>Rule one - do not enable the alcoholic in any way. The "wake up" as you called it is what we call "hitting bottom" every drunk has a different bottom. Some are farther down than others. Some never get it. My bottom came on my bathroom floor after vomiting and shaking for the zillionth time. The dead man in the mirror scared me into action. Unfortunately, pain is usually the best motivator and the drunk needs to feel his own pain and it must be GREAT because the alcohol numbs us so well.<P>The basic premise you will learn in Al-Anon is that you did not cause his alcoholism but maybe you did help enable his to carry it on; maybe not? You, believe it or not, needto recover yourself from the effects of his alcoholism. The foundation you will build is 1)I am powerless over his alcoholism 2) God can restore ME to sanity and 3) Make the decision to allow God to do his work in you. The rest of the steps are easy once the foundation is established. One of the promises of AA (for the drunk and I assume the Al-Anon member) is "No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others". Somewhere in AL-Anon, you will hear your story told by someone else. That person has experience from which you can learn. Listen to what is said in meetings and seek out those who can help you.<P>God bless you and I will pray for your recovery.<P>John

John,<BR>Thanks for your prayers. I really need them now, and so does my H. I do believe I enabled him to drink. I gave him excuses by complaining to him about. I foolishly thought that if he loved me enough, he could and would quit. I don't blame myself though, it's his disease. And I know only he can quit. He has quit 2 times before. The first wake up call was a car accident which resulted in a DUI. He was lucky to live thru it. He quit for 3 months. The 2nd time, he was at a party and someone had moonshine and he drank a good bit of it. He was sick as a dog and in a foul mood the next day. I made him leave. He was gone for 10 days. And quit drinking for 4 months. This time instead of quitting, he left. <BR>My kids deserve a better father than that. I pray he realizes that before it's too late for him.

Dear Mitzi, what can I say but "been there, done that". NewMan is right. Believe him, he has been there and knows the routine. Your H will have to hit the bottom hard before he will quit. My husband quit drinking 13 years ago, and was sober for 5 years. He never went to AA which was probably his biggest mistake. When he "fell off the wagon" he gradually increased his drinking and for the last 3 years has basically been a slobbering drunk on a daily basis. However, he has cut back during the week but is in denial that he has a problem.<P>If you can't find Al-Anon in your area, you can attend Al-Anon meetings on the web, there are lots of them. Just do a search on Al-Anon and you'll come up with several to choose from. <P>Yes, I was a major enabler (BTW my H is still a drunk - he just has a changed wife now). I made it real easy for him to find excuses to not come home, get drunk and have affairs by constantly begging him to stop drinking, arguing with him when he did come home, etc. It is no excuse for him to drink and I do not believe that it was my fault, but in his clouded mind he saw it as a way to blame me for all our problems and justify his drinking. So I have been trying to focus on asking the Lord to change me, make me the kind of Christian wife He wants me to be. The Lord will deal with my H in His time, not mine. I have to keep telling myself this so I don't go into despair. Prayer is the ONLY thing that has helped me get through the last 3 years. They have been a living he**! As a wife of an alcoholic, I know you understand this. <P>What NewMan said is so right: "The foundation you will build is 1)I am powerless over his alcoholism 2) God can restore ME to sanity and 3) Make the decision to allow God to do his work in you." I feel for you, and will keep you in my prayers. You deserve to be happy.

Yes, I do understand. My H used me as an excuse to drink. "If you didn't bi@ch so much, maybe I'd stay home". I have begged him to quit drinking, and it got worse. He's not a slobbering drunk every day, but he drinks everyday. Although I don't allow it at home. But now he can sit at a bar for 14 hours, on the days he's not working. I have hoped for years that he would hit bottom. Maybe this is close to being it. He's left his family. He's coming to see the boys Friday and I am going to Plan A him to death. I'm going to be nice to him and when he leaves I'll probably lose it. Oh well, it might be worth it in the long run.

Yes, I do understand. My H used me as an excuse to drink. "If you didn't bi@ch so much, maybe I'd stay home". I have begged him to quit drinking, and it got worse. He's not a slobbering drunk every day, but he drinks everyday. Although I don't allow it at home. But now he can sit at a bar for 14 hours, on the days he's not working. I have hoped for years that he would hit bottom. Maybe this is close to being it. He's left his family. He's coming to see the boys Friday and I am going to Plan A him to death. I'm going to be nice to him and when he leaves I'll probably lose it. Oh well, it might be worth it in the long run.

Yes, my H has used that exact same line "If you didn't bi@ch so much, maybe I'd stay home"! Are all alcoholics made out of the same mold? When my H hit bottom and stopped drinking 13 years ago, he had moved far away from us, drank so heavily that he'd spend the entire weekend in a bar, sleeping in the car in the parking lot and going back in to drink as soon as they opened, got in barroom fights all the time, etc. One day the fog lifted and he realized what he had done. He begged, and I mean BEGGED, and cried to come home. I told him to call me back when he sobered up and was ready to quit drinking for good. He called the next day. When he started drinking again, I think I became very resentful and felt betrayed because he had broken his promise to me to never drink again. It was all downhill from then. <P>Good luck Friday with the visit. I think you're doing the right thing by doing Plan A. I will be praying hard for you, and your husband Friday. Remember, pray, pray, pray!

My favorite line was "You would drink too if you had my problems". The truth is you would have my problems if you drank like me. They're all excuses that allow the drunk to stay in denial and continue their behavior.<P>It's frightening to see the similarity in my alcoholic history and the behavour, abandonment, lies, ploys and the like and that of my wife. An addiction is just that, an addication. Whether it is food, sex, women, materialism, gambling, whatever, it all stems, I think, from the huge void that we have inside us. Personally, I believe that void can only be filled with God's love for us and the Holy Spirit and that we try to stick anything and everything in that hole to fill it. Nothing works because nothing else works.<P>Eventually, we grow "sick and tired and being sick and tired", i.e. hit bottom. <P>Love your alcoholic just as the father of the prodical son loved his wayward boy. However, do not enable him. Let him pay the full consequences for his actions. Never, never cover for him or make excuses for him. Let him hit his own personal bottom; however low it must be. The motivation to get and stay sober must be so great that the drunk will do anything to achieve sobriety. We must learn a whole new way of living and that takes time and effort. 90 meeting in 90 days at a minumum. A sponsor is a must and the steps must be worked to achieve sobriety.<P>Good luck with your personal transformation through Al-Anon. Remember steps 1,2 & 3 and build on that foundation. Our hopes and prayers are with you. <P>

Mitzi...I also remember the days when I heard those lines, "I would rather be at the bar than to hear you complain." They were all excuses to justify my H's drinking. He wouldn't come home, he would sleep in his car with his beer, or at OW's house, who enabled his drinking. I felt abandoned with the kids. I had no idea, from day to day, when he would be home. I would say to him, "What if there is an emergency? I don't even know where to reach you!" His response would be, "Call 911." He also said things like, "If something happens to me, some law enforcement person will be at the door to tell you."<P>I couldn't believe the person my H had become. I do believe that they are numb to the harm that they do to themselves and their families. Alcoholism is an illness...a terrible illness.<P>After hitting rock bottom, it's amazing to see the incredible transformation that takes place, after they stop drinking and after the withdrawal period.<P>There was a time when I started to believe the stupid things he said to blame me. Then, I got my "wake-up" call and realized that I am responsible for the decisions I make in my life, just as he is. I didn't force the booze down his throat and had always expressed how I didn't approve of alcohol in our home.<P>Please get yourself to Alanon. Don't blame yourself for his alcoholism and don't accept the blame that he places on you. You need to be strong for yourself & for your kids. You can do it.

As a recovering drunk I can say with confidence that it take a long time for the alcoholic to realize the extent of the damage. After all, the first three steps may take several months to work and understand. Then only when they're ready can the fourth step begin; the fearless and moral inventory. That is usually the time when the real wreakage is first acknowledged.<P>I love this analogy of the newly sober alcoholic. He's like the farmer who has just come up from the storm cellar after the F5 twister has passed. He looks up, sees the sun and rejoyces saying "Isn't it great, the wind stopped blowing". His wife stares in amazement as he seems oblivious to all the destruction around him as a result of the twister.<P>The trail of wreakage the raging alcoholic leaves behind is incredible. We genuinely have no idea of the devastation until we are well into recovery. The atonement comes much later; step 9. So if your H is ever serious about getting sober, be patient. Miracles do happen every day but they come in God's time not ours. God is extremely patient, we are not.

That's the problem, the waiting for him to decide to get sober. I wish hitting bottom could happen overnight. I don't want him to kill the love I have for him first. It seems like the longer he stays gone, the harder it will be for me to forgive him. I'm trying to think positive thoughts, and pray alot. <BR>Tonight he comes back to town after working away for 4 days. It's going to be so hard because H will be with OW and not his family. The alcoholism I could deal with alot better than another woman. I don't know if I have the strength to wait. It's emotionally draining.

NoTrust is right when she says they are numb to the harm they do to themselves and their families. My H never considered how upset and worried I was when he would stay out until the wee hours of the morning, never calling to let me know where he was (of course he couldn't call -- the OW would have gotten mad). My H never put 2 and 2 together that the health problems he had begun to experience were caused by his excessive drinking. Our family doctor told him point blank to stop drinking because he was drinking himself into an early grave. H didn't care... his response was "everybody's got to go sometime". The stress on me was unbearable. I never knew when, or if, he would be home, and what his mood would be when he got home. Sometimes he was a happy drunk, other times he was a mean drunk. He would come home drunk, argue with me, hit me, throw me around, kick me, smash my things, kill my pets, etc. and the next day ask me how did I get the bruises. He still has not hit bottom yet. He may never hit bottom. I think he denies his problem so much because he's trying to convince himself that he doesn't have a problem, knowing full well he has a horrible problem. It has been and is very, very difficult to try to salvage a marriage when your spouse is an alcoholic. Some days I just feel like "what is the use, he'll never change, never truly love me, never be committed to me". But I made a commitment before God to my H to love him in sickness and in health, and right now he is very sick. So I pray and pray and pray for him, and for myself (and you too Mitzi). God has made things more bearable for me in the last 3 months. He made me so angry and afraid of my H when we were separated that I did not miss him. And now He has refilled my heart with love for my husband. I think He has touched my husband's heart a little, maybe more than I know. Hang in there Mitzi, and please take NewMan's and NoTrust's advice. What NewMan said "Personally, I believe that void can only be filled with God's love for us and the Holy Spirit" is the truth. Let God work on you first, and His work on your husband will follow. I truly believe it is by the grace of our God that my husband has not hit me

It all sounds so familiar. Sometimes my H was happy and friendly when he was drunk, sometimes (alot of the time) he was mean. He never cared either that I sat up night after night worrying about whether he had been in an accident or whether he would bother to come home. It's never been this bad before though. It used to be that he would get drunk 3-4 times a week. Now even if he's not drunk everyday, he at least drinks. The bartenders have seen him more in the past 2 years than me and the boys have. I have been praying for a long time for God to help me and to help him. It just doesnt seem like its working. Maybe finding this forum is part of God's plan for me. Maybe his leaving is part of God's plan for my H to finally realize he needs help. I hope so but it's the waiting. He'll be with her tonight and I can't stand that. I seriously want her out of the picture. She's a horrible person. A man was shot because she was dating him and another man at the same time, she has 3 children and they were all taken away from her, and she has been involved with more than one married man. She's involved with at least 2 other men besides my H right now. But it's like he doesn't care. But if I had another man, he probably would have killed me.