For those of you who don't know my history, d day was April 2001, found MB site in June, did plan A to mid September, did plan B for one month until WS came back saying he wanted me and the kids. Recovery only lasted one and a half weeks when he saw OW again and I was so hurt that I had to kick him out.<p>Kicking him out was the best thing I could have done for both of us. It gave me chance to grieve properly for what I had lost and it gave him chance to finally realise that he had a propblem and needed to seek professional help.<p>Through lots of self help books and personal reflection, I have learned how to really forgive my WS. When he came back, it was because of his concience rather than the realisation that I was the person he wanted to be with. He had not had chance to deal with the issues that had caused him to stray, and consequently, he strayed again one week into recovery. I have now realised that I have to be patient and give him time to work out for himself why he did what he did. I have to learn to love him from afar and just "be there" for him should he decide to return after he's had chance to sort himself out.<p>Just over a week ago, he e mailed me saying he had finally realised that he had some serious problems that he could only sort out by being away from both me and OW. I won't go into detail on here unless you want me to, but he has a lot of insecuritites which go back to his childhood. For some reason he thought that this even more insecure, needy woman who walked into his life 18 months ago was the answer to his problems. He said he has now realised that he is really messed up and has made things even worse.<p>On Sunday night he phoned and we talked for three hours. He opened up to me more than he has ever done before. Because I made him leave, he feels that the pressure to be the man that he thinks I need him to be has been taken away, and therefore he feels more relaxed talking to me. Even though he is still not living with me, I have now realised that the best way I can show him how much I love him is to be there as a really good friend who he can talk to, won't keep dragging up the past, and will listen to him and show a genuine interest in what is going on in his life. <p>He has now finally realised that the only way he can sort out all his "stuff" is to get counselling , and that OW will not get rid of all his "stuff" all she did was to help him to forget it for a while, because he could sit and listen to all her problems instead. Apparently, she was even more messed up than him, so the fact that she seemed to need him made him feel loved.<p>I have realised that the best way to show love to another person is based on how much of ourselves we are able to give to another person without expecting anything in return. Since I have realised that I can still love him, and be there for him, even though he is not meeting any of my ENs, I feel much better as a person and much more able to cope with what has happened. I just hope that one day, (once he has had counselling, and time to sort out all his emotional baggage) that he will decide that I am who he wants, after all. I have to accept however, that this may not be what he wants. Whatever happens, in the meantime, I will show him, by my actions, that I have forgivien him and will support him whatever. I have to show him that I can be the best friend he ever had and that my motives are purely in his best interests and not because I have an ulteria motive.<p>One book I have read since we separated at the end of October is "In the meantime" by Iyanla Vanzant. This book discusses in detail how the author learned what love really means and what to do in the meantime whilst you are waiting for the relationship you'd always dreamed of to happen. It helped me anyway. Since I read this book and started to practise some of the things I'd read, my WS has started to feel comfortabe with being in my company again because he knows that I have forgiven him and genuinely want to just be there for him, whatever the outcome of his soul searching and time alone. So although we're noe separated, its back to plan A, but hopefully, a more effective one this time.<p>Wounded One<p>[ November 24, 2001: Message edited by: Wounded One ]<p>[ November 24, 2001: Message edited by: Wounded One ]</p>

Wounded One,
IMVHO, I do not think you should do plan A. Yes you love him still and show him your love but you will be in cycle of roller coaster ride. You should invite him home and set the ground rule (see POJA) and continue in recovery. Did H send no contact letter to end A ? help him out in recovery, change home phone#, cell#, email and so on. Beside that give him HNHN and tell him your EN and let him plan A'ing you. Let him show if he could work on M, you have done your work. It is his turn to show what he tells you. You know you will be glad to show him in return.<p>Read book by Dobson ... Love must be tough ...<p>Good luck ...

Wounded One,
I pray that all goes well for you. I too have read "In the mean time"... an excellent book for for those of us trying to get our life back in order.

Thanks Redhat,<p>I've already read the book by Dobson "Love must be tough" in fact it was after reading that book back in August that I decided to do plan B. Now that I've had time to sort out my feelings, I would prefer to be in recovery rather than back to plan A but, even if I asked him to, I know that my H would not return, he says he needs time alone away from me and OW so that he can decide what he wants. I'm sure he's still in contact with OW, but he's assured me that he will not be living with her. A lot of the problems he seems to be having are not to do with relationship issues but are deep personal problems. He says he feels he cannot commit to anyone properly until he has sorted out these problems. He says he wants outside, neutral help so that if he does come back to me, it will be because he knows that its what he really wants rather than because of an obligation to. I think he wants to sort out his whole identity first and then decide whether the person he turns out to be still wants me in his life.<p>The way we are talking to each other seems more like recovery than plan A and he actually admitted that all the time we have been together he has never considered my needs. He has said, however, that he does not want to have to consider anyone elses needs other than his own at the moment. He admits that this is selfish of him, but he feels that he cannot work on someone else's needs until he has sorted out what his are.<p>So, yes, we have discussed ENs and everything which a couple should discuss in recovery, but he doesn't seem to be ready to start recovery yet.<p>Wounded One

Wounded One,<p>IMHO, He is still in his fog and talk fogese. The cycle should be D-day, plan A, plan B/end of A, recovery then happy M. If fails in recovery you ought to go back to plan B !!! not plan A. That is what I meant with you have done your work. RECOVERY should be done together !!!. If he need "time and space" to sort out his feeling, he could do that in plan B ... decision time for H. Protect yourself and your sanity. Keep posting on your progress ....

Redhat,<p>Thanks for posting again. Yes, when I found out the A had started up again 4 weeks ago, I threw him out and had actually at the time decided it was for good. During those four weeks there was no contact at all between us so it was like plan B. When my H then got in touch, it was originally to sort out what to do with the house and money and things but during that conversation, we started chatting and realised that we were still friends. We then had a week of him e mailing me, then that long conversation I mentioned above. Then my H came up to see our 2 year old son. Thats why it sort of turned back into plan A. <p> My H has, for all the time we've been together, had a job which means that he's only at home during weekends. That has been part of the problem. So even when we started recovery, it was only based on a weekend relationship. In fact, recovery only lasted one weekend before he saw her again. When I started this thread on Saturday evening, after my H had gone back to his flat in another city, I was feeling quite positive, but what you are saying here is right. I'm now not sure whether I can just hang around between him coming up to see our son wondering whether he'll phone or e mail me. You are right, I've spent most of today feeling upset and have gone back to how I felt before I did the original plan B in September.<p>When I saw my H on Saturday we got on like old friends and I did no LBs and he seemed to feel relaxed in my company. Maybe it would be a good time to start plan B now because the last memories he has of being with me will hopefully be positive ones.<p>You are right. I won't try to contact him again. If he does try to make contact. I'l send him a plan B letter. I also think I need time to decide whether to continue, knowing that he will never give up his work....he's said that.... and bearing that in mind it will always be easy for him to see her without me knowing anyway. I'll do a while in plan B to get used to not having him around and then decide whether to call it a day or not. <p>Wounded One [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ November 26, 2001: Message edited by: Wounded One ]</p>

I asked about your situation to Steve if one will do plan A again in your situation ... the answer is only if WS willing to stop A. It is inline w/ what I believe. One should only stop doing plan A when plan B is in effect otherwise we suppose to plan A'ng our love one.<p>When H is willing to try ... you should help him in withdrawal and recovery. Help him to protect his weakness. Garnish his wages and count every single dime if you have to ... not to jail him but to make sure that you are protected. Make sure he reports to you his schedule and accountable for every minutes of it ... You have to make him quit his job if that what it takes for you to be sure. This is POJA. At the same time give him the candy ... fill his EN. Otherwise you have to stay in plan B.<p>How is H now days ?. Did he call ? did he tell you he is remorse and try again ?.<p>[ November 28, 2001: Message edited by: redhat ]</p>

Thanks for your support Redhat,<p>My H has not been in touch this week. He did say before that although he is very sorry for what he has done, he doesn't want to work on marriage until he's decided whether that is what he wants. He seems to want to sort out the problems I mentioned above first, through counselling etc. Sounds as though he's got us both waiting while he makes his mind up......he may even decide that he wants neither of us!<p>I think he's put the affair on hold as well as our marriage while he sorts his head out. Therefore, thats why I don't know whether to plan A IF he calls or when he comes to see our son, because that might make his realise that I am the one who will meet his ENs, or whether to plan B so that he realises what he is missing.<p>Plan B is more likely to protect me isn't it? I can get used to the idea of him not being around, so that at the end of the day, if he decides not to work on our marriage, then I've had time to come to terms with it. My only worry here is that he might still be in contact over the phone etc. with OW meaning that she still gets a chance to boost his ego whilst he has chance to forget who I am. Plan B will, however make him realise that I'm not a total whimp who'll stand for any sort of bad treatment. What do you think?

Wounded One,<p>IMVHO, Since he make both of you sitting on the fence and doesn't want to work on M, unless you are sure that there is no contact w/ OW, I think you should stay with plan B. You did plan B and he could not take it but fails in recovery and very sorry about it. I will give him plan B letter and this time states that both of you will try to find away to protect the situation so that recovery could be permanent.<p>Make sure this time when he decides to no contact, you put your terms and negotiate from there (w/ no LB). Put the situations or issues that you have and let both of you find the solutions.<p>Let us know the outcome, I hope someone hit your H head with frying pan so that H could comes of his fog. LOL !!!. Hang in there and be strong.

Thanks,<p>Yes, since I posted yesterday, I have decided that plan B is the best option. The difficult bit is that a few family members know about the A , but some don't. What do I say to people over Christmas when they wonder why my H isn't there? I'm not sure whether to start telling friends that we have split up or whether to just leave it.<p>Usually over Christmas there are lots of family get togethers, I am going to have to make excuses and avoid going to them unless I tell people what has happened. How do other deal with family occasions and special holidays during plan B?<p>Wounded One

Wounded One,
What do I say to people over Christmas when they wonder why my H isn't there? I'm not sure whether to start telling friends that we have split up or whether to just leave it.
Believe me, news travel fast specially M problem. Just invite all the people, when people ask you could say "We have a M problem and we are working on it, and I would rather not to talk about it now". Do not spoil your Christmast party w/ this.<p>
Usually over Christmas there are lots of family get togethers, I am going to have to make excuses and avoid going to them unless I tell people what has happened. How do other deal with family occasions and special holidays during plan B?
Do not this A impacting your life than already is. You should go, make sure you have fun, H is the one who have A why you have to carry the cross ?. I am in plan A right now, a close freinds (who knows about the A)invite us for Skiing (God bless their heart, they know how hard it is being a bread maker, mom, skating mom & a handy man for the property that we own). WS doesn't want to go, I choose to go w/ my family and have fun. I am not going to cry over or LB. MAKE SURE YOU AVOID TALKING ABOUT H & A. If I am not in MB I will invite the brunnette engineer to come ... LOL !!!.<p>In plan B, you have to show H that if you don't catch me now you are not going to catch me in plan C, run like hell and never look back. You have to convinced H that you are ready to move on with or without him.

Thanks,<p>Yes thats what I'll do. Go along to Christmas occasions where invited, carry on with my life and as you said above, show H that I will carry on with or without him.<p>Wounded One