Tomorrow about noon, I will begin driving back to my big, empty house. My son is with my H in Disneyworld and I am here in tears again. On Thanksgiving, I met my H at the Cracker Barrel restaurant (in my hometown and near the interstate, plus he didn't bring any dress clothes) and we ate somewhat of a Thanksgiving dinner together. H told me I looked pretty. We talked a little, but mostly he looked away from me. Then came the switch. The part where you pass your child to your spouse for "their time". I did my best to be strong, but tears just poured down my face, I was doin this silently. H said that he would see counselor, for me--to help me with my "problems" (related to his affair) and also for him too. H said he would just probalby do this to me again (have another affair) and just thinks he isn't "wired" to be faithful. He did say that he still wanted to spend time with me next week. I am going to look for the book i was suggested to read by Tracy Cabot--I can't remember the title--help? Said we had to crawl before we could walk, but that was as close as he has come to saying he wanted to work on things. I am hurt, devastated and confused. The B thing didn't work at all b/c H sabotaged it. First, by doing the Disney trip w/son and by calling me to make sure I knew about it. I also found out where H emailed my personal letter I emailed to my girlfriend who is praying for us to his OW. Why would he do that? I am wondering. Maybe to get out of it w/her? I don't know. Asked him on Thanksgiving why he did that and got no answer just said he would not do it again. Advice? H thinks if I change email accounts or codes that I'm hiding something (which I'm not) and that would be to him a big LB. I'm trying a distant A again. Please pray for me. Please pray for H also. Even though that is hard, please do it. I hope and pray that all of you have had a lovely Thanksgiving. We do still have alot to be thankful for, despite our common trials and barriers placed before us now. I am thankful for you here. Hello especially to TMMX, conqueror, morriggs, and redhat. God bless you all. You are also in my prayers. Keep your armor on.

peachy,<p>Couldn't you stay a bit longer with your mom ?. Son & H is not in GA yet anyway. You need support right now and there is no better place than home.<p>Your H is very controlling, you have to learn how to be not dependent on him. At the same time I think he is very insecure person, mix that with power, it is very hard to deal with. You have to be strong.<p>Don't too, hang up on plan B. It is just a step you could take when you are ready. IMHO, you just taking a breather on plan A, take your time, be strong.<p>BTW. I found a book by Stormie Omartian, The power of a praying husband. She has a book for praying wife too. I enjoyed the power tool, listing of relevant scriptures.<p>Glad to hear from you again.

Hi Redhat and friends,<p>I thank you for your advice. However, my dog has been in boarding for over 2 weeks now and my birds have been fed by a very tired girlfriend who has to drive over 30 miles to get to my home. I will come home again before Christmas soon. I prayed today and did more soul searching. Thank you for your thoughts. H is very controlling and I don't know what to do/how to act this next week. H is coming back Wed. w/our son and says he wants to spend time w/me. Keeps giving me mixed signals like "well, we've got to crawl before we can walk" then say that he just wants to be friends, then says he wants to make an appt. w/my counselor. What do you think about this? I am simply just not trying at all to think about it anymore. I have given this over to God. It is in his hands. We had a rough night here in No. Mississippi last night and I didn't get alot of sleep. Tornado warning came through about 4 am and we're ok, just lots of wind and unable to sleep for loud storm. Thanks for your prayers. I am going to attempt to get up about 8:30 and pack up quick and visit my grandparents again on my way out of town. <p>What I want to know from you, redhat, is how have you kept yourself together during this mess (with the exception of your faith, which is evident)? This afternoon, I watched one of my favoite movies, Sleepless in Seattle (kinda gave me inspiration for my displayed name here) and fell to pieces crying after watching it. Started crying in an Office Max store last week and knocked over a display of scotch tape near the checkout line--got upset seeing all of the Christmas stuff. Although looking back, that was funny. I must have been hilarious to watch. At least God can still give me somewhat of a sense of humor. That's what I want to know--how to just go on while the roller coaster is going, going, and going. I'm just wanting the ride to end. I am afraid that unless H makes some positive moves and decisions in the next few months, I'm going to be forced to stop the roller coaster again and follow through this time. If for no reason other than to stop the pain. But each day, I pray and ask God to keep me strong, pray the Jabez prayer, and give my thanks, my woes, my joys to him. Ironically, this morning, I turned on the TV and there was this tv minister talking about how people and their bitterness (somehow my H says he is bitter to me?) and hurt can be healed. He gave story of Moses taking the tree branch down and placing it in the well where the water was bitter and undrinkable for his people. God told him to put the wood in the water. Then the waters were made sweet and pure again and replenished their souls. The minister made an interesting analogy to that: when we are despairing, we must remember the wood, not that wood that went into that well water, but the wood that our Lord was nailed to. He carried the bitterness, anger, and pain for us. So that's what I'm trying to do on my long drive home tomorrow. I'll check in w/you before I leave in the am. Should I listen to the CD's H gave me from the Song of Solomon conference (refer to earlier post)? H just gave them to me the night before I left and did not say if they were for us or to help us out at all. Everything from him is soooo cryptic. Again, my armor is on and I will turn inward and keep my eyes upward for the journey ahead. God bless you and have a good night. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Peachy,<p>Do you know your H EN ? and also what are his LB button ?. Could you avoid pushing his LB button & at the same time try to fill in his EN ?. (One of his EN must be admiration, blow some hot air [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ).<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>H is coming back Wed. w/our son and says he wants to spend time w/me. Keeps giving me mixed signals like "well, we've got to crawl before we can walk" then say that he just wants to be friends, then says he wants to make an appt. w/my counselor. What do you think about this? I am simply just not trying at all to think about it anymore.</strong><hr></blockquote>
He is still in his fog, you are doing fine by not to take it personally. Just imagine that your H suddenly become insane so H is not responsible for what he is doing right now.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>What I want to know from you, redhat, is how have you kept yourself together during this mess (with the exception of your faith, which is evident)?</strong><hr></blockquote>
1. Actually this A bring me back to HIM. I was lost souls, I choosed to follow her than worship to HIM. I am busy to make HIM the center of my life again. I have faith that I will have my loving spouse back, I hope is WW but it might not be her. ***let go***
2. I have 2 beautiful daughters, 9&12 yrs, they need me now than ever. I become mr mom and once in a while they called me mom by mistake [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . ***busy up to my neck***
3. I didn't know what I do wrong for the past 2 years if not longer (she always angry, keep pushing my LB and degraded me) until I found out A. Actually it brings back my sanity. IT WASN'T ME. She is in the fog. ***Just treat WW as insane person, not herself***
4. I made a promise to MIL (she passed away 10 years ago) that I will take care of her. Now she is sick and there is no chance her fantasy will work. She admitted it herself (while the fog lifted a bit) but she is addicted to OM. I can not forsake her now. I sent a letter to FIL to let him know that I might not be able to honor my promise because I have to protect my 2 D. ***my honor is on the line***
5. In my childhood, I want to be a hero (reading too many comics) ... ***All BS that sacrificing him/herself for M are heroes.***<p>Thanks for asking.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong> ... That's what I want to know--how to just go on while the roller coaster is going, going, and going.</strong><hr></blockquote>
As long you could "let it go" knowing that nothing you could do but riding it up and down and gravity is in control.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong> I'm just wanting the ride to end. I am afraid that unless H makes some positive moves and decisions in the next few months, I'm going to be forced to stop the roller coaster again and follow through this time. If for no reason other than to stop the pain.</strong><hr></blockquote>
All roller coaster will come to stop. When ? ...You are the only one could do that, not even your H. That is why we have plan B.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Should I listen to the CD's H gave me from the Song of Solomon conference (refer to earlier post)?</strong><hr></blockquote>
As long as you could remember that "an insane person" gave you the CD. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] LOL !!!.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>H just gave them to me the night before I left and did not say if they were for us or to help us out at all. Everything from him is soooo cryptic.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ask him w/o LB when you meet him again.<p>Have a safe drive ... and post again when you are at GA.<p>[ November 25, 2001: Message edited by: redhat ]</p>

Dear Redhat,<p>Thank you for your wow! advice. H is truly acting like an insane person. What sane person would leave his beautiful, little boy and (believe it or not I am attractive, just do not at all feel like I could have ever been) wife with no conscience at all? You're right, he's in the fog. Is it a sign that the fog is thinning or clearing a bit b/c when he asked for counselor's phone number H admitted he had a problem. I am unsure. I will do as you say and feed his en's and ego this next week when we meet. Problem--H is an egomaniac. Says he doesn't see me as a challenge. I left and attempted a plan b, which really turned into another break from A or a really distant A. I will try not to LB. I can't believe that when we did the "switch" with our son that I just teared up like that. Is that a LB? I was not sobbing, just tears. I know when I do that I must not at all seem like a challenge. H likes risks--even in his job-financially related. I am now just a homemaker, no more exciting medical job, no other men chasing me like when we dated. As a Christian, I will not pursue others at all, b/c that is not God's way. How can I be a challenge at all? Or should I just forget being a challenge or anything at all like that b/c H is in the fog? <p>I admire the stand you have taken with your daughters. Like you, I have told my MIL and FIL that I will do my best to persevere as long as possible, but in the end will do all to protect my son. You're right, we must focus on ourselves, our faith now b/c God will get us through. I am praying faithfully for you, friend. Thank you. I'd give you my email, but H gets manic when I talk or email any men. (even a prayer partner in my separated bible study class he got upset over calling me) and he reads my emails, b/c if I don't let him have my password, H thinks there is something to hide (not ever). I know I should just say to heck with it and get my own separate internet account, but that would be a major LB to him. I think, and counselor does too, that the reason why H is so controlling and suspicious and jealous acting is b/c H is the one doing all the suspicious and wrong things. H is just projecting them onto me. It's like living in an alternate universe ruled by crazy overlord aliens. The faithful spouse is constantly under surveillance by cheating spouse b/c he believes she is cheating. Yep. You're right about the insane thing. Nothing H does or says is sane or rational. I just wish I had a dollar for all the stupid rationalizations you and I have been given so that we'd have a million dollars to spend on our family and children for Christmas presents. I know I'd have at least that much. I hope your W will see the true integrity and honor within your soul. It is evident to myself and all here who read your posts. I and others here are actively praying for you. I'm signing off now--running two errands and on the road. Will be back later this evening. God bless you and keep your armor on for one more day.<p>"Therefore put on the full armor of God so that when the day of EVIL comes you may be able to stand your ground; and after having done EVERYTHING to stand."<p>Please continue to pray for me, son, and especially my H to get the deep fog to lift. Thanks.

peachy,<p>You just describe one of your plan A ...
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Problem--H is an egomaniac. Says he doesn't see me as a challenge.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That is the change you need to do to show him new you, actually old you ...
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I am now just a homemaker, no more exciting medical job, no other men chasing me like when we dated. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Plan A is not all about giving WS unlimited blank checks to do as he wishes. Not at all, you give WS to persue his fantasy, yes it is a blank check but with expiration date on it and not unlimited. Meanwhile you need to show H that you are capable of addressing all his complaint and capable of change. Filling his LB$ if he permits you too.<p>BS is not powerless ... showing your (tears) feeling is not LB, just being yourself. Also I think you need Orchid's advice on how to become Venusian, post new topic in GQ II, she is usually lurking around that forum.<p>Rather than feeling miserable for this week, do plan A ... Show H some changes: get physical trainer and schedule gymn work out almost every day, go to the best hair dresser in town and ask him/her to change your look ( change hair color too ) Britney Spear look ? LOL !!!, fix your resume and do some voluntering for now preparing you to get back to job market. Shop but do not do Oops! by blu cantrell ... LOL !!!, get dresses that is diferent than typical defensive homemaker's. Change your perfume, nail polish etc ... you get the idea. Also open email account in Yahoo or hotmail and let him find out later ... Get a new cell number, open new checking account, new credit card & also mail box# if H has access to any of those.<p>Is it an LB ? ... nope ... You are not angry, you are not disrepectful judgment, you are not demanding or dishonesty ... you probably annoying him but H could learn to live with it for now. H is LB'ing all over you actually !!!. You could defuse it by talking fogese ...If H ask about email password you could ask his and do a trade ... If H is mad about your look, you could tell him it make you feel better, you need it, and he is not in love w/ you anymore anyway [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . If it is getting too hot do what Venusian does best ... cry and/or play H soft side, tell him anything to hit his soft spots but short of give in even an inch [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . Surprise H when he return from the trip ...<p>I changed my hair do, use different parfume, colored my hair, change my dress code, go to gymn every other day. I am back to join office's TGIF get together at the local pub. WW is now confuse and notice my change ... remember she said "we probably should try our separate way ...". I told her that she has nothing to worry about me having A, I will give her what she want first, a Dv, before I commit to any EA or PA. I play back the fogese line, it is about me, not her at all. I need my space too ... LOL [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . I stop my addiction to StarBucks (latte) which is a big deal for WW to stop. That is my way to say "Look at me I am changing, if you don't catch me in plan A or B, I will be ready to move on".<p>Yes, we are Christian but we are going out not for "looking" but social encounter with freinds. Protect your weakness too. I am staying away from that brunette engineer from the other project, I could fall for her [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img] . And I always tell the story of my 2 D skating's acomplishments and how proud I am. I wish I could say the same about WW. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] Hey, if my WW wants to date me you know the answer ... date me every day... LOL!!.<p>Aside from "look at me" statement, others change should be done to answer WS's complains about M. (note becareful to separate complains (facts) from reasoning (excuses).<p>Curious question that you might want to check up on ... are there any different divorce law, in term of financial or child custody or anything that you could check on, than your home state ?.<p>I keep you guys on my prayer list until this storm passed away and hope there is a rainbow at the end.<p>[ November 26, 2001: Message edited by: redhat ]</p>

I'm here now. Horrible night last night. Did not get to sleep before 4 am. As far as doing what you suggested, I've already tried it. In fact, I'm blonde and my hair is kind of like hers now anyway. I joined a gym 2 months ago and did start working out. Every time I try to change phone numbers, do change on pass codes, H threatens to D me and cut off paying bills. I am (although I do not believe it right now) attractive and probably do need a lesson in being a venusian again. I used to be great at that. I have not heard from H in 2 days. H called on Friday to say that he'd call to make sure I got in ok. No call. I got home and found OW's called my home (on my caller ID) the day H left for Thanksgiving. H has said, as far as i know, last week that he wanted to spend some time w/ me when they return and I will try to do the venusian to the tee. There isn't much I would do in the way of appearance, except dress a little more provocative (I have the clothes, just don't really need to wear them now) and can with just a tiny bit of makeup turn heads. I just don't get out to do that, if I do, I am accused of havng an A. My counselor says that it is his guilt causing him to always accuse (falsely) me. I am super depressed now and my counselor said until I get through this bout of depression, I do not need to be working b/c job is stressful--take call at hospital, work emergency patients, etc. H knows how I can be and how I can look when I want to. Believe it or not, I won 2 Miss America preliminary pageants in college and know how to fix myself up. It is amazing, how ugly and devastated we can feel right now. You see, nothing I've ever done has caught his attention as it seems. When I've tried those changes you suggested, I've only been hurled accusations and to him, that is major LB. H wants to know I am up front and honest, despite his situation. What's the way out? I do not know. I do have one girlfriend and she has said that we should go and do something together this weekend. She is very attractive and H knows that whenever she and I have gone anywhere, we do get noticed by other guys. It's just that she's married and so am I. we're just not the cheating type. But he still gets somewhat jealous when i do that. I should try to tip the scale a bit, but counselor says drastic changes is not to be done right now. She thinks smooth and steady and working on confidence and me again is what to do and what can work. <p>How are things going for you two now? I am curious. I pray for you, your W and daughters avidly. I am probably not the only one who believes that a man's insides are what truly proves manhood here. You are doing all that you can do to save your marriage and yes, your family and I, along w/others here who post w/you are behind you 100%. Goodness, it's so hard. I have lost 7 pounds last week from sheer nerves. I'm not at all overweight, just not skinny. OW is very tall and skinny and my H likes that. I can do more weight loss (maybe 10-12 pounds max)but can't change the height thing. I'm 5'4. My H says that this separation and A is about him not about me. <p>I will try to find Orchid and get some advice from her. I have also read her posts and rejoice along with her. You're right about that. I will do all I can to boost H's ego when I'm with him this week (that is if he keeps his word and does decide to do something w/me). I'll try to be the woman he met 8 years ago. God bless you and keep you. We are in dark times, but faith will pull us through. I feel so manipulative when I "try" to do something to get him back. But that must be what OW is doing and I can hang w/the best of the girls when I want to. It's just changing my mindset--I don't want to "have" to do anything to keep my M. I believe that our H and W's should love us and accept us the way we are. I shouldn't have to be in "babe" mode 24/7. Guess I should try to pray harder for strength right now, to try to get back to be the woman I am on the inside also. H has had me so upset and is so controlling, I am utterly confused and off-balance. I have not called him or attempted to contact him since Saturday. I appreciate your advice since, hey, you're a man and you know what will work with you and what would make you think twice. I will also ask for advice here from other women who have been successful in again regaining their H's affection and attention. <p>I am so tired. I am going to try to read other posts and get a hold of Orchid. Try to write back, if you have time. I truly appreciate you and my friends here and consider it all a blessing from above. Keep your armor on. I am trying too.

I agree with Redhat about making changes in your life that make YOU feel better, and I especially like the idea of trading passwords! My H also projects on me and has been suspicious of me, and I have been completely open and honest, not asking any more from him than I am already giving to him myself.<p>The name of the book by Tracy Cabot is How To Make A Man Fall In Love With You, and as I said before, the main reason for reading it is to boost your self-confidence and feel more power in the relationship.<p>I want to make something clear about the attempt at plan B, though. You said your H sabotaged it, but I submit that it was actually you who caved. If you choose not to have contact with someone, it can be done no matter how many times they call, Email, or come over--you don't have to answer the phone or the door and you can block Email.<p>I say that to make this point: If you want to plan A, you will need to have a level of commitment to the plan that you did not have in your attempt at plan B. I consider Redhat an expert at plan A, and I would follow his advice as much as you possibly can. I think of Plan A as a training period for me to be the person and spouse I am capable of being, the best me possible, whether the M survives or not. Keeping that goal in mind helps maintain a good focus.<p>I'm currently reading Dr. Phil McGraw's book, Relationship Rescue, and am finding that to be a good resource at rediscovering the real me and building my strength and resolve to change the destructive patterns in my life, so you may want to look into that book, too. I also recommend Michele Weiner-Davis' books, Divorce Busting and The Divorce Remedy (www.divorcebusting.com), for specific strategies that can be used in plan A to help attract your WS back to you.<p>The attitude is the main thing, and you have to have control of yourself to maintain and project the right attitude. The way you carry yourself, the things you say, the way you look and act, every nuance should communicate "Should you be interested in me, I will consider a relationship with you and would be a partner well worth having, but I will survive and even thrive on my own".<p>I think you have to detach enough to be able to do that, so first you have to be convinced of that yourself and making changes in your life will help with that. Since he is not living with you, you would do well to establish a separate life (job, accounts, all that Redhat mentioned) and somewhat mirror what he is doing without the LBs or A, of course. Show him that you CAN live without him, BUT also show him that you are well worth living with. Make that option as attractive as possible.<p>And remember, he can only control you with your permission. Seek to follow God's commands foremost.

Hello again Conqueror,<p>I will try and do the A again to the best of my ability. Will try to get the book tomorrow and see if they have it in bookstore. I agree w/all you have said and only thing--I am so down that counselor said I should not get job now. Would be too much==job is medical and very technical. Not ready for that yet. I am depressed so very much. The big difference here is that I am out of my element here. I have few friends in this new city, always get accused of being dishonest or unfaithful if I go out w/friends, and believe that H will come back only if he wants to. H is returning this week w/son from disneyworld and if you have specific tips I can use from book or ideas please let me know asap--I may not have enough time to read whole book or may not be able to get my hands on it soon enough. H says he is going to spend time w/me this week, but I will believe it when i hear his asking to see me. Advice? I appreciate you and am also praying for you too. I am sorry another d-day has developed for you and want you to try your best to remain strong and hold onto God and your faith as best as you can. That is all I can do. I had to go to doctor and get on meds b/c of depression, anxiety, and my blood pressure has skyrocketed. Used to be a gal who had it all together, now I've crumpled. H says he is attracted to me physically and that is not the problem. H will not let me close enough to show him that I am also his friend. Funny how they say that OW or OM is their "friend" or "soulmate". What friend would want to destroy a marriage or family? I used to think of him as my friend too. Now, I do not know who he is and some days feel just stupid to be depressed--that I could do better but still love him and want what I know is best for us and for son. Plus, God hates divorce and can be a rock for us if he will only try. H has said he would go to counselor soon, but to "help" me and a little for helping him too. The signals are so mixed and when I press for information or try too hard, it pushes him away further--H has even said that. Please more advice? <p>God bless you all and I will check in w/you later. Thanks. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi GA Peach,<p>I like that better. Peachtree GA is all over the place over there!!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I was there about 20 years ago. It was beautiful!<p>{{hugs}} to you. It has been a while since we posted to each other. I must say Peach that my H mumbled the same stuff your H is saying. Whether your H will continue, like that clariol commerical 'only H knows for sure....' LOL!! <p>Let's review your comments and look for some positive signs:<p>1. The fact that he recognizes he needs help (about the counseling part) is a good sign.<p>2. H is willing to spend time with your child. <p>3. H is paying the families bills. <p>4. H is checking up on you via those e-mails. <p>5. H had dinner with you and your child. <p>Note: All the above take time and energy....away from the OW. <p>So are you hopeless? No not yet. <p>Now let's prepare you a bit.....let's say he goes for the D/ does the paperwork/ serves you with the paperwork.....<p>Even then, if he is still doing the above, you have his attention. I learned that all the while I was in plan A and B I was still fulfilling some of H's needs. Taking care of son and home was a need. Drawing my boundaries was a need. Subtle hints of my love (like giving him a hug) was a need. hm..... guess I wasnt that monster OW wanted me to be. That WS kept coming back for more. That's when I went to plan b because my constant giving was wearing me out! See it was all one way. No one was meeting my needs. <p>Oh yea, that's when I started having those 'dreams' about nice guys treating me real nice. Funny when women dream it is not always sexual but it is loving...... that is what my dreams were like, nice guys treating me like a queen, being gentle, sweet, tender and kind. That's when this hard working mama realized, that is what I need, to be treated gentle and kind. <p>Ok, I told my H to go ahead and get the D because I knew I deserved to be treated better than he was treating me. For me, that was the beginning of him trying to come home. He tried and fumbled 4 times. H even landed in jail once and tried living with Ow and even had to deal with my miscarriage and 2 more of OWs feigned pregos. Still he was not ready to really come home. Eventually he did and now he is back. <p>I would like to say that this will work for you but you have to remember that your H's personality/attitude play a big part as to when he comes back and how he comes back. <p>From what you have posted, I don't see your window of opportunity closed yet. Remember the OW can LB also. Life is not all roses in OW land. <p>Like Redhat said, I talk about Vensuians a lot. Well OWs are great manipulators but you can use that knowledge to your advantage. Know that when OW is looking bad, you knowing your H's personality, you know how to turn on that charm, then do it. You may not be able to be taller but you sure can do stuff to make his head turn. You know give him something that will keep rining in his ears...... or something he will recall fondly..... One BS (lupolady) gave her H a super cologne and her H liked it. Now when he went back to the OW and wore the cologne, guess who he thought of? Probably his W!!!! <p>So don't give up...... you have more going for you than you think. <p>L.

Peachy,<p>You have to learn to use H's fogese against him, specially in "the gray line" of LB. Forget about what H says to you, he is insane (no disrepect here). He probably uses LB as a way to control you and make you stop. If you know it will help your self and your relation (not the current state), just do it. While in the outside they resent you, deep inside WS says "please don't, don't stop !!!". I start going out to make me feel good and warning sign to my WW, catch me now and I am still yours but I am ready to move on too. I shake her down and she is talking to Steve trying to find out [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . I use her line "why don't we try to see if we could find true love out there ... ", I show her I am taking her offer but WW still own my heart and soul, shy of any EA or not even PA. You should go out there w/ your girl freind, not to flirts or looking, but to have a good time. You could put high heal to make you look like 5'6" plus a tight jean will make you look taller [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] , who am I kidding ... you have more qualification than me. You get the idea ... and if H get mad tell him you would like to go out with him instead if H is available otherwise you go w/ your freinds.<p>About job, actually part time volunteer or anything to get you mind busy and get H guessing and worry about you rather than "having good time" w/ OW. Again, tell him you need to get busy and to keep your sanity, it is not about money but charity [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . You have to keep him off balance, you have to find a way to bring Venusian within you, HE TOLD YOU ALREADY HE NEED CHALLENGE ... GIVE IT TO HIM AND GIVE IT TO HIM GOOD. I like the perfume advice from Orchid's post. I buy my FIL brand of perfume, reminding WW when FIL have mid life crisis [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] , that really make her think I am ready to move on [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . Is it LB ? nope ... you always reassure H that if he is willing he could be the #1 guy, but he have to work on it.<p>I make my WW from talking D to quiet down and think for a bit. Be carefull what you wish for and you might not like it. It is still far from ending A or open up for me to fill in EN. But I put one piece of rock at the time to build a bridge to reach her and at the same time I am waiting OM to LB ... She told me that a class mate with low self esteem just satisfy to have passing grade ... I told her to stay away from those people otherwise she might get bad influence. LMAO !!. You could guess who is him.<p>Be patience, presistant and presevere ... at the same time have some fun while you at it. I will take my advice back if the conselor you mention is Steve. I don't see how you could gain confidence while all the balance is in H. You have one more day to prepare before H is back.<p>[ November 27, 2001: Message edited by: redhat ]</p>

I live in Ga also if you get lonely you can contact me.
Dont worry about the crying when you "switched" I would have boo hooed.
I cried the first itme MIL met me half way to get my D - JUST TO SPEND THE NIGHT!
I thought this is how divorced people switch kids, how sad. This was before A, before I thought anything bad could happen to my family.

Tomorrow is the day. They return. I spent pretty much the last 2 days being really down. Can't sleep very well-4 hours @ best. I will try to use my feminine abilities to their best extent tomorrow. H hasn't phoned me since the weekend and I wonder if OW is there w/them. When H hasn't called on a trip, somehow OW was there. I thank you for your replies. Especially Orchid, Sad Princess, and Redhat. I will try to be pro active, but I am literally stunned-like a deer in your headlights. I feel frozen and isolated. Not sure how much longer I can hold on to this kind of emotional pain. I lost my dad 2 1/2 years ago and this situation has pulled me down even further than that did. I have spoken w/Steve, but have a counselor that is using some MB principles and other approach as well. She is great. She even called to check on me today. Counselor promised me that when and if H comes in, she will fight for our M. I am going out tonight w/some friends from my bible study. It will be later, and probably only for an hour or so. There is an open mike night at a local Irish pub (yes, Christians can go out too) and some of the people in my separated class actually sing or tell limericks. I know I need it. I'm still falling apart here. Last minute advice desperately needed. Problem w/just working w/charity--will have to get child care for my son and might as well work for $ if I have to spend it to get good care for my little boy. Last night, I cried after coming home from getting a cup of coffee @ Starbuck's. Saw Christmas lights everywhere and fell apart. I haven't taken down the Fall/Thanksgiving decor I do and personally, do not know how I will bear this now. Last minute help AND PRAYERS NEEDED NOW AND TOMORROW! Being that I can't sleep very well, I will log on tonight and visit w/you all. Please know that you are all in my prayers too. I thank you for all you have done. This road is not easy==it's rocky and not for the faint of heart. I fear I'm losing it. My self-esteem is down the toilet. H has said that nothing I can DO will change his mind. I do not want to lose hope, but it is fading fast. PRAYERS PLEASE!!!

. I will try to use my feminine abilities to their best extent tomorrow. <p>
I don't agree with the postings that encourage the woman to be "more attractive" to the errant husband. I think a woman needs to feel good about herself and try to take pride inherself expecially when a man is stabbing her self esteem, but to try to win him back with sexuality seems to be missing the point. An affair isn't about a woman not being attractive enough; it's about anger, entitlement, narcissism, lack of committment, values and boundaries.
You sound like you are dealing with extreme narcissism and you play right into his hands with your co-dependence. Check out a CODA (co-dependents anon. meeting). If you stop letting him be a 2 year old, and setting some boundaries with him, it may change something, but being a doormat won't. And it doesn't matter if you're a sexy doormat or not.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by grainne:
<strong>. I will try to use my feminine abilities to their best extent tomorrow. <p>
I don't agree with the postings that encourage the woman to be "more attractive" to the errant husband. I think a woman needs to feel good about herself and try to take pride inherself expecially when a man is stabbing her self esteem, but to try to win him back with sexuality seems to be missing the point. An affair isn't about a woman not being attractive enough; it's about anger, entitlement, narcissism, lack of committment, values and boundaries.
You sound like you are dealing with extreme narcissism and you play right into his hands with your co-dependence. Check out a CODA (co-dependents anon. meeting). If you stop letting him be a 2 year old, and setting some boundaries with him, it may change something, but being a doormat won't. And it doesn't matter if you're a sexy doormat or not.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Hi G,<p>Is this your first visit to MB? If yes, I would like to welcome you here. You are welcome to relate your story on the Just found out site or even here. Are you familar with the marriage builders concepts? It has helped me a lot. <p>Your post above may have taken some of our posts out of context. I will try to clarify. Trying to look your best is in no way demeaning to the BS. What took the WS out of the family into the A world can be for many reasons. The point is to help the WS see what they have left. Often the WS does not have a clear perception of the damage done or the continuous hurt caused to all. There could be major memory loss, rewriting of history (so to speak), placing of blame in the wrong areas to enhance the reason for the A and many more reasons. <p>In an effort to help the WS back, the BS can do within reason some things to make themselves more attractive to their spouses. Not as a lure but to show value. The one standing to lose in this A situation is the WS more than the Bs however, the one to feel the greater and initial shock is the BS. It is like walking in a totally dark room carrying your most precious possessions(ie.
your children) and not knowing how or where to take your next step. Yet you know that if you stop moving you will cease to exist. <p>Hope this has helped. Right now we need to show some encouragement to GAPeach. <p>Take Care,
L.

Dear GAPeach,<p>You are doing ok. Yes, it is hard to stay strong during these times and our inerts shake a lot. Keep talking to your support group and keep posting here. <p>I will keep you and your family in my prayers. <p>Take Care,
L.

Peachy, I keep you always in my prayer, specially for tomorrow. Hope you could have fun for tonite.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I sought THE LORD, and HE heard me, and delivered me from all my fears. Psalm 34:4</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I will check in later too but you better have some rest for tomorrow. The intent of getting a job will be to get you out from the house and get busy. How about voluntering at the local day care school while bringing your son too ?.<p>H has said that nothing I can DO will change his mind.
Prove him wrong. Ignore H w/o LB and plan A'ing like no tomorrow. My WW say the same thing even to date and she rejects me by running to OM, refusing my cards for example ... I gave it to her and she always said leave it on the table and stay there until I piled them up. But this morning she slip when we talk, she read it !!!, she refer to the writing !!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . I keep laying down one rock at a time, I know I have to do plan B to get her back but for now I am building the bridge. Yes it hurts but just have faith ... it hurts me a lot too and I guess I am a bit lucky that her curiosity get the better of her and poked a ray of hope.

Going out was good. I needed that. Met two girlfriends from church and we played darts. Only diet coke here, (the meds). I am going to be up for a while, but will be doing bills and will check in w/you later. Thanks Orchid and Redhat. I am praying for you both. Redhat: How long have you been doing the plan B? I forget when you started it, albeit I read your posts earlier? It is good that she is reading the cards. I have A'd him so much--sending loving emails and telling him and being loving but H says to back off and do NOTHING. H says he knows how I feel, but just does not want me to do anything. I will do all I can tomorrow. The A thing sure does a number on your weight. Got on the scales and I'm down 7. Closer to losing those last 10. I am so down now. I thank you both for your responses and ideas. I just feel like I've almost tried everything, but is 3 months long enough? H moved out in August. I want to go through the holidays and give it my very all before doing anything else. I just don't know how long I can keep my strength up. It is so hard being alone, muchless being in a stranger in a new huge city. I don't understand this. My last two years in college I was out of state and single and I didn't feel the least bit alone. I left a sweet voice mail on his cell phone and still have not heard from H in 4 days. No call, nothing to even hear my son's voice. I'm spiraling down, I fear. Keep praying for the Lord to carry me now, b/c I'm almost too weak to walk any more and do this. How can I become the woman H fell in love with when I'm at the very lowest point of my entire life? My counselor called to check in w/me today and was encouraging. She told me not to give up yet. I thank God for you, for my friends, family, and my counselor now. I just feel like the Dwight Yoakam song, "A Thousand Miles From Nowhere". Not that I'm a huge country fan. Tomorrow is going to be wierd. On one hand, I will be so glad to see my son again, and on the other, I'm worried and scared to find out what's up w/H. Is he really going to try to do something (go out) w/me or is it going to be another back down again? This ride is getting too wild for me.<p>
Orchid: Your H's OW sounds pretty wierd. I like your nickname for her Ms. Psycho-Babble Rabbit. My friends have come up w/nickname for his OW: mind you, they're idea, not mine but here it goes: Monkey-ho. They say she has the features of a monkey and the morals of well, you know. It's not OW's first married man either, truth be known. A friend back home had some very enlightening information about her: says she is wacko--real head case and goofy. I told him, well, what do you think I am now? Although I truly feel my sanity would not be on the line now if all this hadn't come to a head. How did you get through this part of the situation? The waiting game is killing me from the inside out. It is amazing how your body reacts to long periods of stress. As a medical (before being a mom) professional, I was well aware of the effects of stress, but was not able to believe that this kind of pain could exist. Counselor is calling my doc to tell her that we need to adjust my doses. Three weeks and only small improvement. Big shocker: she said I may not only have depression but also post-traumatic stress disorder b/c of the mental abuse in the last year and the death of my dad 2 1/2 years ago suddenly. Been through alot. Although with dad's death, I know I will see him again--he is with God and I have no doubt about that. Dad died knowing that just 3 hours earlier I had had chance to tell him everything I had ever wanted to say to him and he knew he was loved and I knew he loved me too. That is what is so hard about this now. No closure, no final chance. It's like writing a book and leaving the last chapter unwritten. <p>Redhat: Do you have a nick name for OM? Just curious. When I went out tonight, I wore different outfit (pants I bought a few months ago and bought them too small hoping I would lose a little) and they fit great. My friends said I looked good and even a few guys noticed me. Oh well, they don't know my H and unless I overdress tomorrow, H will have to wait to see the new change. <p>Keep praying. Tomorrow is, maybe, some kind of turning point. I will find out if H does want to get together w/me this week or not. Please pray that I keep it together when I see him and that H will call counselor and get an appt. I thank you all for your kindness and prayers. God bless you.

Hi GaPeach,<p>You sound in better spirits. Be there to welcome home your son. If the weather permits show off that 'new' you..... [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>You know we pay to see those monkeys at the zoo!!! LOL! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] Throw then a banana and watch their funny antics. <p>So keep that mental picture in your head of the OW and know that you are not the only one who thinks she is 'nuts'!!!! <p>
{{hugs to you}}<p>L.

Peachy, I am still in plan A with help of Steve, this will be my 2nd months. No change of WW, she basically "moved out", only came to stay 2 night a weeks, comes and go at will, only picking up my 2 D from schools, I do the rest. She is being "coached" by OM. She stopped pressing for D now, a small baby step.<p>OM nick name is "mustache man". Way before D-day, insane WW try to show my 2 D to OM [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] and my 2 D try to give me a hint. About suspicoius man, mustache man, asking direction that is so obvious and meet him again in book store by "accident". [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] . My 2 D also comes up with "insane mom analogy".<p>I am glad that you enjoyed the night. You should do it more often, you need the break. But stay away from busy intersection, you could cause accidents .... [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] LOL !!.<p>I checking out for now and keep you & your family in my prayer for the night.