Well, as promised, here is the update after our anniversary (Tuesday) and everything that has happened in the interim.<p>Tuesday, WS and I met at our house and headed off for a celebratory day of 8 years married and 10 years together. We've always had some of our greatest times doing the simple things--going out for a few beers, playing pool, darts, eating dinner and just hanging out. That's what we did all day and it was nice.<p>We got into some great discussion about US and she mentioned that she had made up her mind to come home. Her "90-day" period is coming up next month, but we had talked about if she ever decided to come back, that she would do it before the first of the month to avoid another month of rent (ouch!). She said that she still wanted to finish SAA, fill out the questionaire(s) and I'm sure that if the A is over, she is still going through the withdrawal.<p>She also mentioned her concerns--how to develop trust again, how to heal etc. One of her concerns is why I would ever trust her again. Before coming to MB site many months ago, one thing I said to her was that if the situations were reversed, she would have never tolerated it and I would have been out the door. She brought that up and said she doesn't know what she would have done, but it would be tough.<p>I talked about the POJA and radical honesty. She's finding a lot of merit in SAA, I think, and knows that those two caveats are imperative to building trust.<p>Later in the evening, he called her cell. She showed me the caller ID and then let me listen to the message. OM was whining about her not calling, he missed her, yada yada yada( and he whined like a baby). I should mention that she has given me her cell password.<p>We went home and spent time being fairly intimate and she spent the night, which was really nice. The next day, I had day trip out of town so I was out of pocket most of the day.<p>Yesterday we met for lunch and she was very excited about some developments at work so I was content to listen, give advice and appreciate how important things are to her. That night, I had 9 y/o until 9:00 (we take one night each week when the other has him and spend an evening doing something with him) and she was supposed to call me and let me know what time to meet and where to drop him off. It was almost 8:00 and no call. I was near her apt, so I called again and she answered. She sounded a little odd (maybe me being suspicious) and told me to come over and she would come down to the car and go to dinner with us. <p>She was in a funky mood and said she was tired. At dinner, I asked her what date she had in mind to come home so I could plan on it. She told me and then I told her she didn't seem too excited about it. She said that she wasn't, yet, but wanted to come home. On the way home, she said that I have to let her go through these ups and downs and be understanding.<p>When I got home, I vented for awhile and then found out that he had called her at work and left her a message (I have her work password, unknowingly). It was a ramble, didn't sound like much other than an attempt by him to have her call him, but he called. One of our agreements after last week (see previous threads) was that she was to call me if and when he called her. <p>I was livid. This morning, I called her at work and without saying I had any proof, I asked when OM had called her at work and left her a message. She said that he hadn't and asked how would I have known in the first place. I told her that her mood change from good to bad yesterday left me upset and that I strongly felt that he was continuing his calling. She said that he hadn't called, but also said that I have to let her get over this.<p>I'm in a quandary folk!! I totally realize that this thing needs to die it's own death. Her telling me that she is going to move back home, go to counseling etc has got me a lot more positive, however I know that true to MB principles, as being in Plan A, without a POJA or no contact letter being sent, I LB when I bring stuff up like I did today. <p>I think she did tell him it is over. I think that by her moods lately that is her intention finally. I realize she will have ups and downs and times where she gets depressed. However, with her track record on truthfulness (ie--FOG), I get leary when I hear OM on voicemail. It is possible that she hasn't talked to him and that he is continuing to call. I don't know. <p>Do I let it rest, keep Plan A;ing, encourage her and support her to move back in and let her grieve? Redhat, I know you've made reference to the travails of snooping, but it's tought not to do that, especially when you've got hope they are moving back home. Orchid, or anyone, thoughts would help.<p>Sorry so long. Hope everyone has a stellar weekend!!!! Thanks for the support.<p>Guido [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

guido,
my man, the A is not end even it is avoiding contact (not no contact), it is still on her mind [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] . I agree with you there might be some contact. That is why you need no contact letter !!!. So you have two choice either plan A'ng or plan B. I guess you just vent here and take her word for it and wait. Yes, we scare because we care (monster, inc). She want 90 days, let her have it and plan B when it doesn't happen. It is her choice not yours !!!.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I'm in a quandary folk!! I totally realize that this thing needs to die it's own death. Her telling me that she is going to move back home, go to counseling etc has got me a lot more positive, however I know that true to MB principles, as being in Plan A, without a POJA or no contact letter being sent, I LB when I bring stuff up like I did today.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually is not LB'ed, if you don't put demand, and under catagory of just asking and let it drops quickly. Plan your plan B, guido !. Ask Steve if you need to. You need to plan your plan B before your LB$ is totally bankrupt. I am worry about it.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Do I let it rest, keep Plan A;ing, encourage her and support her to move back in and let her grieve?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Let it pass 90 days then you decide. You have some of EN being met so it is not that bad. Ask how much headache Orchid has taking her H back w/o commitment (many times). She is holding that title right now.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Redhat, I know you've made reference to the travails of snooping, but it's tought not to do that, especially when you've got hope they are moving back home.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Guido, you have to snoop, you have no choice and you can't trust her right now. All I say is that you have to be ready the outcome and be prepared finding the worst and think of what you are going to do in that case.<p>[ January 11, 2002: Message edited by: redhat ]</p>

Hi Guido,<p>Glad you had a nice anniversary. I knew how much you worried over it! <p>First I need to do the AT&T thing to Redhat and reach out and slap someone!! (fogese version of the AT&T slogan) LOL! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Yes, I am 'one' of the front runners for letting the WS come back too soon but I know I am not the ONLY one!! RH keeps me in line on that one! I knew my ears were burning for a reason. <p>Now back to you G, she set a date but is not keeping her word. For now take the small steps and watch them. She is not going to please you 100%, not even 80% or 60% or..... you getting this?!?!? Ok, so small steps, in time that call she got at work will be a big enough issue that she can handle but for now, don't make a big deal about it. You need to coax her out of the A shell by making her feel comfortable at home. Your home. <p>Bite your tongue, vent here, talk to someone..... just don't look or expect 100% yet. Try for more like 15%. It will go up and then down for a while. She is right about that but don't let her use it as an excuse to use you as a doormat. Be loving but firm. Remind her of her words that she would not have tolerated you treating her that way. In a loving way of course. <p>See my H said virtually the same things. It's not a gender thing, it is a WS thing. Same crazy script. Look in the mirro and practice some fogese. This means that sometimes you may just have to give their babbling back to them and see if they can handle it. Ignore it or gently say, 'honey, I just don't understand what you are saying'. Something like that. <p>Hope this helps. <p>L.<p>ps: you know the OM just LB'd!!!! Doesn't your W hate whinners??<p>[ January 11, 2002: Message edited by: Orchid ]</p>

Orchid, RH--Yup, It's funny how the OM can LB. I realize after tonight that was the case. Here's why.<p>Tonight, 9 Y/O was supposed to be with WS until Sunday. WS's day was hectic due to their group at work moving into a new office across the campus of the complex they work in. She was trying to get her employees'' reviews done plus that, so I knew she was busy. We spoke a couple of times today and she was pleasant.<p>Tonight after I finished racquetball, I looked forward to an evening of DVD's, a few cold ones and possibly sitting out on the deck with the chimnea going, since it's in the low 40's here in the Midwest.<p>She had called cell phone but no message so I called her. She sounded very distraught. I asked her what was wrong and she broke down crying. She was depressed, upset, scared, sad, "guilty" etc etc etc. I told her that if it was any consolation that I was here for her and would do whatever I could to help. She started crying again and told me she would call me back. She did and said she felt bad that she was in such a poor mood for our son. She asked me if I would take him for the night because she was going to take her anti-d's and go to bed. <p>We had a little conversation about withdrawal, MB, healing and generally how I understood that if she truly broke things off with BeerGuy that it was going to be tough for awhile. I reiterated that I was here for her to call or whatever.<p>Went over to her apt and she was in PJ's, eyes all red on the couch. Gave her hugs, kisses and all the caring I could. She told me that she still wants to move back in two weeks but she was scared that she would move back out again. I let her know that the healing process is not easy and that it would take a tremendous amount of effort on both of our part. She's about half way through SAA book and wants to finish it next week.<p>She hugged back and told me thanks. About an hour later she called me at home to say thanks again and to see how we were doing--she was going to bed.<p>I guess it makes me think thatMAYBE, JUST MAYBE she is actually in withdrawal. I don't think that she is up to her tricks. Orchid, you are correct--I need to set my normally super-high expectations a lot lower and take itsy-bitsy baby steps of progress. The fact that I didnt mess up and try to talk about the message at work more than I did was a minor victory in itself.<p>I am going to continue to Plan A and get her to want to come back to OUR home. I do have Plan B letter written, sealed and ready, though if for some reason the Fog doesn't lift. Almost gave it to her last week and she's cognizant of that. I don't think it will come to that.<p>Will let her grieve for BeerGuy as much as it sucks. I think she knows what it's going to take to make things better. Once she does move back in, the counseling, POJA, radical honesty--those will need to be in place or I won't let it continue just for the sake of having my wife back in the house. Maybe that's me being stubborn but I won't let the contact resume. I can't take that and won't stand for it. <p>Thanks all---- [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]

guido,
Good thing your weekend start with high note.<p>Orchid,
I am still waiting your call. I am a gumshoe for hire w/ at no cost [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ...<p>Probably I will go to sleep early tonight w/ help of med. I am running out of gas.