Plan A is definately not for wimps!
Question to the wise and experienced MBers<p>If WS claims no sex just EA with OP but you suspect that this is a lie but have no confirmation or proof, during plan A would you have your regular relations (unprotected) with WS? Would it be a LB to ask for protection or testing? How can you 100 percent trust? I know I'm not the only person who has pondered this? How would you handle it after considering the current situation below?<p>
WS denies PA with OW (younnnnnnnnnnnng college 12-15 yrs jr to him) which I suspected 9/01--late night calls in attic on cell phone--but sleuthed and uncovered details in 10/01-- A 250.00 Long Distance Cell phone bill w/calls hours in length, which was hidden when bills previously were never hidden. After confrontation over phone bill--duh--have not seen one since the November billing cycle--the bill showed a stop to the calls for the last 2 weeks of that last bill I saw. Also, there was an astounding change in attitude, lots of attention, being considerate, emails and phonecalls to me at work, long conversations in the evening while he's working, bringing the cell phone into the house instead of leaving in car, telling me where he is, when not working no more late nights, even comments like I'm glad I'm married to you, lets consider moving, (something we stopped contemplating 18 mos ago). Also said "miss you during the nights (started new night job driving tractor trailers long distance--not home 2-3 nights during the week) so much so that I don't delete your text messages so I can read them over and over on my cell phone." <p>I initially felt this to be the fruits of my attempted Plan A (my own weight loss and excercise program, delicious home cooked meals, even taking up new interests and not being around him nagging and questioning)The hard thing is realizing that most of the previous odd activities, arguments, insults, new behaviors--were a symptom of the A, not a "bad day" as I sleuthed, that became clearer and I found it very insulting to my intelligence. <p>12/29 D-Day that the EA is still alive:
OW was in town during winter break I uncovered this from voicemail (couldn't tell actual date of arrival but suspect possibly just before Christmas, but definately by 12/27 first message I heard from her since November. It indicated a local callback phone number. couldn't sit on--LB??-- beyond 12/31 --ended up 4 hours late for work because we calmly discussed it, with him admitting she was in town and that he'd seen her. can't believe how calm I was but still ended up feeling like "that's it for me! I had stopped listening to the voice mail every single day--trying to stay positive in attempt to plan A. <p>Something made me listen on 0n 12/29--Oh yeah, He'd been home all day alone,when I came home about 6 pm he left the house to go to the store for dog food and came home at 1:15 am. I called him on cell (which gave me the uncontrollable urge to listen to messages) about 11:00, 11:30, 11:40 only left 2 messages one of them I said I hope you don't think i'm being annoying" gave him the perfect comeback for when he got home with no good explaination--hey why not go back to the routine of pretending to be upset because I'm nagging you when the reality is you think I know something-how'd you guess. I played dumb although I'd heard her message from the day before just a couple of hours before he came home. I was livid but tried hard to play dumb and not suspicious. Mind you there was and to date has been no message confirming 1. physical affair or 2. face to face meetings.<p>At this point:
Every weekend we spend most of our time together, at home, shopping, movies, dining out (things I usually would like--his suggestion). H is back to leaving phone in car at night some nights the last few days, when its in the house its either off or on vibrate. During that seeming fog clearing, the phone was left out on dresser where i could be alone with it (lol) and "on". Things seem to be going back to the sneaky mode.<p>he doesnt know i can get into his voicemaill to my knowledge. My messages get deleted, OW are saved maybe 2-3 per week since she got back to her school state (1/5/02). Noticed a message with a baby crying in the background--OMG please lets not add to this nightmare.<p>I have not directly discussed any of my feelings, observations, what i've confirmed re the continuing contact. have not given any ultimatums like "you better cut this off" although i feel i have a right to. trying not to LB as i know it must die naturl death. Hard to sleep in same bed with such a liar/fraud. how can he stand the energy drain of living double life? <p>From what H admits, it is only EA, however, knowledge of H, the fact that OW was here in town for over a week not to mention that late night episode and here's a biggie his inability (or possibly deliberatly NOT) "to perform", (ok for more than a year it was just "inconsistent" and no we never candidly discussed it or got help) coupled with a recent unofficial stopping point (kissing, cuddling only) claiming to be "tired", "coming down with a cold," "I didn't know you wanted to", etc. He will initiate affectionate behavior (will hold hands, kisses, hugs, intimate spooning at night in bed but will not do the act). Don't know whether its because he really, really, really can't perform (noticed the purchase of supplements to help that situation). Don't know what to think as the communication continues. <p>I originally figured that SF might have been an EN that if I tried too hard to meet, it would be a LB(Dont know what he really considers his top 5 EN--my own observation) but in October, a few days after the official D-Day, there were 3 nights of what I perceived to be Grade A, love making not just sex (keep in mind the quality of our "relations" for more than a year). Now there's been nothing since 10/24/01 the longest timeframe ever in our history and as of last night add another day and counting. I was foolish enough to believe that those 3 nights in October were a "sign" of coming out of the fog and the possibility of starting to implement a recovery plan to heal and affair proof the M. Now I think it was either guilty, pitty sex or maybe that he was "hot" over a conversation he had with OW (phone bill revealed calls those nights before he came home to me). What do you all think?<p>So finally, back the question, it seems like I may be being spared a decision due to his lack of desire/ability, maybe guilt, whatever is the reason for him not initiating sex. Surely if the pre-existing problem is psychological in nature, then I would think that guilt would really render one "dead in the water." Sorry for the last comment, that was a bit of a LB.<p>This makes me so disillusioned and doubtful. I don't know how long I can Plan A. If you have not guessed it by now, my #1 EN is HONESTY, I could be in love with a toad that told the truth--always. Trust makes the person very desireable to me. I hope I am not permanently distrustful because of this. <p>Dated 3 years
Break for 6 mo
Reunited -- engaged
Married since 1998
2nd marriage for both
Both had WS in our prior marriages<p>Please respond.<p>[LIST][LIST]

Twice,<p>I don't have enough time right now to read your entire post, but for now I'll just direct you to do a search on my member number (can't do it myself right now), and I replied to a post in Recovery within the last couple weeks comparing the differences between what my H told me back in September and what reality actually turned out to be. Hopefully you can find it.<p>Anyway, I am a case in point as my H gave me an STD (you can find posts from me about that, too). I found this out because I insisted that we both be tested before having sex. The prize of sex was enough to get him to the lab and to the Dr's office, but since he was still having contact with OW, I wanted to use condoms until I felt secure. He refused and eventually I gave in. Not a good idea.<p>I'll be going in to get tested again this month. My point is that you cannot trust what they say about sex with the OW. My H insisted that he always used protection with the OW and that he KNEW he was clean, and obviously he did not and was not.<p>Even if your H won't go, go yourself. The STD I got was contracted during the overlap time at the beginning of the A when he was having sex with both of us without my knowledge, so by the time D-day came along, I had already had it for a few months. If I had gone to the Dr. as soon as I suspected an A, I would have had proof of it because of the STD, been treated earlier, and had D-day earlier, and who knows how much farther in my personal recovery I would be now had I done that.<p>Between laundry loads, I found that thread: It's on the Recovery board, and the title is True Recovery? I'm lost, started by maybe.<p>[ January 13, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

I am a BS, Male and top EN is SF. I ditto Conqueror, I had my self tested as soon as I learn about the A. I have condom in my drawer just in case. I have 2 D that I have to protect ... not only STD, how about danger of AID ?.<p>It is not an LB to ask H to wear one, you tell H that you have to protect yourself until H could prove there is no contact and there is no STD. It is not selfish demand (you agree to do it with condition) and disrespecful judgment (it is about you not him). Practice safe sex.