I have been plan A’ing for the past few months. However it hasn’t improved the situation at all. My wife came home from the counselor on Saturday and told me that her and the counselor said a separation would be the best for the relationship. My wife is saying that she needs to figure out what she wants in her life. If she wants a relationship with me or if she wants to be on her own. My wife says that the feelings are not there to be in a relationship with me. That these feelings have been gone for some time and with the lack of these feelings my wife feels there has always been something missing from the relationship. That if our relationship wasn’t lacking something she wouldn’t feel this way.
My wife says she wants to experience her independence. That she wants to be on her own for once in her life. She has never been on her own since we got involved when we were very young. The best I can understand is my wife is telling me that she needs this time to discover what it is she wants in her life. I know she is unhappy and the combination of her being happy and the lack of the feelings towards me make her want this separation. She wants to have a six month separation where she lives on her own. She wants her “independence” as she explains it to me. There are no promises that she will come back to me at the end of this separation. My wife says one of three things could happen. First she could go off and experience what it she wants and say this isn’t what I want and she discovers her feeling for me again and comes back to the relationship. This of course is if I still want the relationship after six months. The second thing would be she goes off and discovers that she likes living on her own and that the relationship is over. The third option would be she goes off and wants the relationship back but I may say I don’t want it anymore.
I am not going to act all tough about this because I am hurting. I never have been without my wife longer then two weeks since we first started dating almost nine years ago. I am scared of being alone. I am scared that she might never want to come back and this is an ending and not just some time to figure things out. Bottom line is I don’t think I am ready for Plan B because I am scared of the out come.
I need some help and support. I don’t think I can do this but I know I have no choice. We both go to the counselor this coming Saturday to discuss the separation options. My wife only has one idea and that is she lives on her own. She wants to live downtown in the city (Chicago). The only thing she promises me is she won’t get involved with anyone. However she won’t promise she won’t go out and party, go to clubs, drink, smoke, etc… Can anyone suggest what I should say I want for this to be fair for myself? I have been used like a doormat from the beginning and I don’t want that to keep happening.
Basically does anyone have any suggestions about Plan B? Do I not talk with her and just act like she doesn’t exist? Do I talk to her? What do I do or don’t do? I need help and I am scared to death. I don’t want to be alone. Should I see if I can stay with someone within the family for awhile? Or should I try to be alone because sooner or later that might happen to me for my entire life.
I sit at night and stare and the ceiling and I ask why me? Why does this happen to anyone? This isn’t fair and it isn’t the way to live life. I need help because I am no longer the strong person I once was. My wife has taken out the wind beneath my wings…
I don’t feel like doing anything anymore. I don’t feel like going to work, I don’t feel like working out at the gym. I am just sort of there wondering why is this happening and I wish someone would take away my pain.

Your W is very immature...
...and living in a fantasy world.<p>She obviously has found a "do what makes you happy" kind of counsellor... the worst kind!<p>She is wanting an "escape"...
...a childish "run away from home" dream...
...and the counsellor is feeing that pipe-dream.<p>Refuse to go to this counsellor...
...the counsellor does NOT have your marriage in mind!<p>If there isn't an PA with the OM (or another OM) now...
...within days to a most a few weeks...there will be!!!<p>Now... what to do.<p>First off you can't stop her from leaving you...
...but you can express your feelings
1. you wish to work on improving your marriage
2. you ARE married
3. marriage is hard work... and you're willing to all you can to keep your marriage.
4. by her leaving... she will be withdrawing... on a regular basis... your love for her.
5. Offer her NO financial support... it has to be her decision... and her acceptance of the consequences (Giving her money is NOT a Plan A type of action)<p>Don't move to Plan B...
Be the strong one in your marriage.... stick with Plan A... for as long as you can.<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Jim/NSR<p>[ February 18, 2002: Message edited by: NSR ]</p>

CG,<p>You are hearing from the best in NSR. I would recommend that you take his advice. HOWEVER, I think there is something else in your thread that needs to be addressed. What is it???<p>As one guy to another, I don't think you are ready to be married. I don't think you should be married. Why do I say this?? Well you dated for over 7 years and then have only been married for 1.5 years. Why did it take soo long to decide to marry and then have problems almost immediately?? My guess is that you weren't ready either.<p>CG, I think you should enthusiastically take your W up on the separation. I think you need to go out date, live on your own, learn how to cook, learn how to make friends (just friends). In short, you need to learn to function without your W or a girl friend. Your W is very likely unhappy with you because you appear to be so dependent on her. You need a life, a life that she might find interesting. You need confidence in yourself. You will only get that on your own and via your religion, if you are a religious man.<p>CG, NSR is a very very strong guy. He is a very devout man and if there is anyone that can get you through this he is your guy. BUT, I must tell you that I think the signs in your life are clear. YOUR ARE BEING GIVEN TIME TO GROW AND DEVELOP Use this time to develop your religious beliefs, your sense of self, your independence, your ability to function on your own.<p>CG, my guess is that your W will squander her 6 months (which she is going to get whether you give it to her or not), but I would strongly recommend that you look at this 6 months as a GIFT from God. Use it wisely and profitably, then if your W wants to come back or consider it, find a real counselor. I agree wholeheartedly with NSR your W's counselor is not helping your marriage.<p>Finally, I would not support your W in any way financially. It is her separation,it is her life. I would use your money for a vacation, go explore the world CG. Have stories to tell your children, when you restore this marriage or end up in another.<p>CG, go for it. Make yourself a whole person, comfortable in the world and capable of making someone you love happy.<p>In 6 months, after your travels, your new life, and the new you has a chance to settle in, then evaluate your marriage for yourself. She will have to do the same for herself. By the way, travel is cheap, go do some.<p>Sorry, I cannot be more positive about your present situation, but I feel your future situation depends on how well you use the 6 months. If you use it well, I think many of your questions will be answered for you. Live life well and fully CG,and I think your marriage will have a much better chance.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

I realize I already posted a reply to you CG on GQII. But I just had to wholeheartedly second JL's comment. Big time!<p>I view my impending Plan B in the same light. WW and I started dating when she was 15. Yes, 15. I was 17. We never had a chance to grow as individuals. She's told this to me, and I think wrestles with her demons - being torn between knowing I'm the "best" choice for her, and her deep-seated desire to be independent. There was a time when I'd have questioned her reasoning along these lines - but not anymore. She's right, actually. I think we did meet and marry too early. I also think it's stupid for us to throw it all away. But she needs to realize that for herself, and we do need to grow as individuals some more.<p>My honest belief for both my WW and yours is that they will have this time, they will squander it as JL says, and they'll come to their senses when they see that no-one else is going to make them happy - except for THEMSELVES!<p>I have grown into a very independent guy lately. In fact, that's why I'm now so confident about Plan B - I can do it, because I don't fear the future. I know I can grow more, and my time apart from WW will make me a very attractive option for someone - today I hope it's WW, but I can't make promises about that down the road.<p>Confidence. Cultivate that more. WW will notice that too, and it'll make you SO much more attractive!! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ February 18, 2002: Message edited by: J.R. ]</p>

Just Learning...
Well since we were so young we didn't have the money to get married. If we did we would of been married. We both said that we should of just gotten married at the court house when we were young and just had a big wedding down the line. Unfortunately neither of our parents are well off so they couldn't help us out.
We have lived with each other basically after the first year of our relationship. Honestly we were talking about having kids six months ago. I am ready to start a family and have kids of my own. I am ready for marriage but I don't think she is. She just thought that was the next step in our relationship. By getting married she thought this doubts in her head would go away. My wife says that throughout are entire relationship that it has just been lacking a small part in it. Of course after the first year or so the butterfly love starts to disappear and it growns into a deeper love.
So she now goes back through our relationship and picks all the bad stuff out of it for her defense. Personally I think it is the fact that she wanted to date other people and do whatever she wanted without having to worry about hurting a husband or a boyfriend. I never made her marry me or stay with me. But for some reason she is telling me she drifted apart over time. You could say the affair helped that out. I think the biggest part working against us is that we got involved when we were so young. We didn't get to live a lot of our young life like most people. But you know what, I wouldn't trade it for the world. The things we shared with each other and got to do at a young age will stay in my heart and my mind until the day I am no longer here.
It is hard to give up someone that is your soul mate and that you hold so close to your heart. I opened up the deepest corners of my heart to her and now she is wanting to walk away. If it didn't hurt so much maybe I would be more of a man and not have to worry about the pain...

CG,<p>I will tell you I come from the opposite point of this equation. I married at 31, had many girl friends in my 20's, traveled the world with family and on my own.<p>I have many things including a 26 year old marriage. But, what I don't have is that first love. You see every situation has its good points and its bad. I think you are correct to feel the way you do about her. But, she doesn't right now about you. You have never been alone or on your own. Now is the time, it has its good moments and its bad, but sample it CG. Sample life now.<p>So my advice stands. Learn to live and enjoy life. If I were running your life I would have you do the following:<p>1. Go on a ski trip.<p>2. Travel to Europe, it is cheap.<p>3. Drive around this hugh beautiful country.<p>4. Cry at a magnificent sunset, and then get up and smile at a beautiful sunrise.<p>5. Go eat some good food and hit the road.<p>6. Work, make friends at work, join a league, learn something you have wanted to always learn.<p>7. Learn something you never even thought of.<p>Why? Because is 6 months I would want you to be a different man than you are now. Not a changed man, but a man that has added on to what you already are. Seen things, done things, traveled, learned that you will survive being alone,that there are neat people everywhere you go. <p>CG, even if you don't have much vacation, every weekend go on the road and see something new and different. Meet new people, hear new accents.<p>Learn to pray in beautiful places. Then in 6 months when your W asks what you have learned you can tell her, for hours you can tell her, and then only then you can tell her you still love her.<p>CG, your W is a fool in my opinion. The single life isn't sooooo good or most people won't marry. There is a reason they do and I think you know the reasons. Life isn't things, it isn't bars, it isn't parties, it isn't a succession of meaningless relations. It is about growing, learning, enjoying what you are given, and mostly enjoying the love of another human being.<p>I know you know all of this, but you need to reach out and stretch yourself now. You need to gain confidence in yourself that you don't NEED her in your life, but you do realize that life would be soo much sweeter with her in it. <p>Let her decide what she wants, but make sure you become an even better man than you are now.<p>Trust me CG, the first weeks will be lonely, but as you travel, drive, fly, experience, you will begin to see all of the other things in life there is to appreciate. Then, when the 6 months is up, check on her and see how she is doing. You will see things differently. My recommendation is that when 6 months is up, you should have no vacation left, and little in your savings account.<p>It is time my man to head out and see a few things.<p>You cannot change her and hangin around won't help. Being there for her won't help, she doesn't yet appreciate how important that is.<p>Grow, learn, and decide what your lifestyle will be. Have faith in yourself, and your family. They will stand by you.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

I do hear what everyone is saying. The only question I have is should I plan A longer before I even say that her moving out is fine with me? To this point I have been plan A'ing but I haven't gone out and done things on my own. The part of starting to show her I can survive on my own and do my own things as just being me. I still feel I have some deposits within my account to last more with Plan A. I would like if all possible to plan A with living together until late June early July. This will basically be the six month period. I want for my wife to do her thing and I will do my thing. I think at this point if we seperate this early we will just grow apart. Does anyone agree with this or not agree with this? I have to basically state this when we see the counselor on Saturday. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I should say this without having my wife feel I am making some LB withdraws? She wants to be out on her own and to be free. Free as she says it having her independance.

CG,<p>Of course you can continue to plan A, even during the separation. You are not doing a plan B. I would like you to read a post from Be_positive who is having a tough time but posted this. Read it and I think it will explain what I was trying to say, but he does it much better.<p> B_P <p>CG, you will do fine. You are a good man and your heart is in the right place. Have confidence in yourself.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

CG,<p>I feel for you and your situation. I wish you luck in whatever you do. <p>My only word of advice is regarding the financial support and it's really not advice. But, your W could choose to seek an attorney and file for S and in it, she will ask and she will most likely get financial support. You can say you won't give it to her, and she may be content with that. Unless your State is very different from mine, the Court won't allow it (Unless she makes more money than you.) In this State, it does not matter who leaves who, who filed first, etc.
Speak with an attorney before you do anything reagarding financial support, changing locks on the house, etc.<p>Good Luck

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong> If it didn't hurt so much maybe I would be more of a man and not have to worry about the pain...</strong><hr></blockquote><p>confused_guy,
You are not less than a man ... matter of fact not every man could do what we do in plan A. Again as I told you before your sig. line catch my eyes, we are in the same boat. Be strong, you could take a break, take a break for retreat and recharge your energy. You have to stay in plan A if you want your wife & your M. Why ?. Many many times I feel like throwing the towel even as I write this reply but my W is my first love and my soulmate. I read "Telling yourself the thruth" by William Marie & Backus Chapian, it is good for Misbelief Therapy. I understood more now about my W. She was depressed a few years ago and I am unable to help her out. I used to be a very optimistic person and able to pull out many strides in life but I fall too. Of course her Dv's freinds and OM confirms and fuels the misbelief ... she picked me as the cause. Hang in there and hang in tough, brother. As NSR's reply w/ this kind of "lies" that WS planted in their head you have to be very carefull and patience, let her do what she pleases and stay away from her path. Let her go and let her live and try her fantasy world. You do not need to go out your way to support her fantasy, do not give her solution let her find one.<p>Do you snoop at all ?. I still snoop but not to find out about OM or her but to monitor my plan A. I found out this weekend that give a a droplet of hope, I gave her a key chain months ago that engraved 1 Cor 13:4-7 ... a symbolic gesture of my beginning of plan A, I thought she throw it away, but she kept it very hidden pocket [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] in her very guarded purse. I found also the V-day's neckless also hidden in the same place. Today I found out that she read my V-day card and hid them away ... it is a an encouragement love card to stating that I will do anything to make her happy, even let her go if she wishes. I found also a house key that doesn't belong to any of ours ... I am better at LB'ed now, I place them back and not say a word about it. It is not OM, it is not me but we have to presistently on showing "the truth" and let her learn her own "lies" or fanatasy. 'Till then our M will have no chance.<p>Honestly, I almost hang up on SH when he told me to improve my plan A on one the session, to give more .... !@$%#^#%$, SH!. I have nothing to give no more. However SH told me to chip away and have a blind faith. We have everything to loose, we have travel this far and let's get to the finish line w/ or w/o our W. My W's OM has nothing to loose but everything to gain ...<p>Listen to her complaint, even it is "misbelief" and try to do the your best even it is oulandish. Forget about OM and do not take any words and actions of your W personally. For instance, she beleive that I do not love her otherwise I will do a,b,c & d. I do the best I can about a,b & c and d is not possible at this time but I talk about it what I would do if the opportunity comes. Immatures or not that is what she beleive, we have fill it within our means and boundry and at the same time let her free to see what she get out there.<p>You are a good man and a good husband, it is not your loses, it is your W. Meanwhile give it your best and let her go to explore her own fantasy.

Redhat...
At the beginning I did snoop. This is how I found out about this other guy she was having a relationship with. I kept snooping for the next two months after she said she ended it. It was more to really see if she did end contact with him. Either she has gotten better at hiding things (making phone calls from work, or emails) or she has stopped it. I even heard a phone converation that she told her friend that I am doing everything possible to make our marriage better. She has acknowledged a lot of changes in me. But I get that line she says it is too late. On Sunday night my wife came out and said she is unhappy. She told me it was a combination of her being unhappy and her feeling a lack of feelings towards me is why she wants a six month separation. The part I wish she would stay longer and see if she started doing things in her life to make her happy if that would make her feel different about our relationship. I honestly don't think I am to blame for her unhappiness.
My wife is my soulmate as well as my best friend. I am going to do my best to step it up and Plan A even harder....

confused_guy,
Let her tastes her own so call freedom, nothing you could do to stop her from it. She has to learn and hopefully it is not too late by then. While you are waiting, IMVHO. This how you could improve your plan A. You have to start taking care of yourself, be nice to yourself. Get activity to fill in your time, go learn those dance moves that you haven't learn ... go back to class room to learn something ... go to do activities that you like and that you have to let it go b/c of your M. I would make a statement by actions, change your looks, change your schedules, change your activities for you.<p>You have planted a seed of plan A, let it grows and not too worry about it for now. Yes, we scare because we care.