My H has been having a PA since October, 2001. We have been on the roller coaster since then. He has tried ending his relationship with her almost 8 times, however, since they are co-workers, they have constant contact. After all of the lies, hurtful comments and deceptions, I finally got to the point where I didn't think I even wanted to live. The pain was just too much to bear. At that point, my H decided he was going to move out. He said he didn't want to hurt me or lie to me again and felt we both needed this time to sort things out. I finally explained to my kids that their father and I were going to separate. They were very upset, but seem to be okay right now. He was supposed to go and look at apartments on Saturday. We ended up having an emotional conversation and I told him how much I loved him, etc. He asked me what he should do. I told him I could not make that decision for him. I asked if he wanted to leave and he said no, but he didn't want to give up OW either. I told him he had to make a choice because he could not have both. He sat up and said it was time for him to be a man and do what was right and he wasn't going to look for apartments. He went out briefly, I assume to call OW. He came home and said he had to meet her at 4 to talk. Well, he ended up being gone for almost 10 hours! When he got home he said they met at her friends house and they took them out for dinner and drinks. All this to end a relationship? The next day he went for a while and when he came home I asked if he had found a place yet. He said not yet and I told him I really thought it was time that he find something soon. I told him that was not what I wanted, but I just could not be hurt by him any more. He seemed upset and asked me to sit down and talk. He told me that just because he is moving out, doesn't mean our relationship is over. He just needs to suffer a bit to see if our marriage is what he really wants (to see if absence makes the heart grow stronger). I told him I am not getting my hopes up, by the comments he has made it seems like it was close to being over. He said he understood how I could think that, but that is not what it meant. Anyway, he has been very upset and depressed for the rest of Sunday and also this morning. I gave him a check from our joint account to pay the realtor to find an apartment for him. He again reiterated that this absolutely does not mean it is over. He says he may be begging me to take him back in a week! I told him that may be, but his moving out seems like a substantial step towards it being over. He seemed very upset. He asked me if I would do one thing. He wanted me to look around for jobs for him. He said he had to find a new job - especially if he wanted to come home because he could not continue to work near the OW. <p>What would be the best option when he moves out? Should I try Plan A from a distance or move right into Plan B? Which plan has the most success in these circumstances? He does seem to respond better when I sound stronger, but when I am upset he shows genuine remorse also for hurting me.<p>Any suggestions would help because I really want to do the right thing to better my chances.

In looking for Plan A vs. B advice, my first question would be "how's his balance in your love bank doing?"<p>That should be the main motivator in deciding to go with Plan B, I believe.

I would second that advice. Also don't be fooled into thinking he is showing genuine remorse - unfortunately it's usually just the feeling of guilt.<p>You Plan A(set a time limit) until you feel that your WS has noticed the changes in you and no LBs. It usually takes about 6 months to do this because they are in the fog!<p>Then you monitor your love bank and when you feel that you will lose all love for them, then you go to Plan B(which also has a time limit). <p>Remember though, that Plan B means no contact - ever - until the WS returns. This can also mean that you move to divorce after a certain amount of time in Plan B.<p>Or it may make WS move on too. - That's why Plan B should be about you because you can't know or control the other person's actions.<p>You can always start trying to write your Plan B letter(it's not as easy as it sounds) and work on it for a while and see how you feel.<p>There never are any clear answers out there. Just pray and go day by day. K

Thanks for the advice. It has helped me make a little more sense out of how I should handle our separation. Unfortunately, I am not always thinking clearly these days and advice from others helps me stand back and take a closer look at things before I react.<p>I think at this point my best bet would be to continue to Plan A from a distance. I think by his actions towards me and things that he has said, I still do have an account in his love bank!!!! He has done nothing but hug me all weekend and ask if I am okay. He called me 3 times when he was out looking at apartments to see what I thought about some of the locations and to tell me he would be home for dinner, etc. Maybe I will just continue to be very nice to him, but work on myself while he is gone. It seems it has more of an affect on him when I am stronger (which isn't always easy, of course). <p>Thanks again for the help.

Well, it's been a long week. I have tried to distance myself from him somewhat emotionally, but not always successful. One night, it was just too much and I had to go upstairs to cry. He came up and saw me and said he felt really bad about what he has done to me. He hugged me for a while telling me not to panic because it doesn't mean our marriage is over. He just keeps saying he needs to get away to sort out what he wants. He said he is not in the mindframe at this point to want to work on our marriage because he isn't sure of what he really wants. He thinks moving out will put space between us and if he still has feelings for me, he will start to miss me and realize what it is he misses about me. It really hurts me to think he needs to go to this extreme to determine if he loves me or not. I guess I just don't understand because I am not in that position. I know I love him and want our marriage to work. <p>Yesterday he looked at apartments and has a good lead on a place he is supposed to see today. We used to live there when we first got married, so he knows that the place is like. Anyway, I talked last night about him taking the kids every other weekend and 2 nights a week for a couple hours. He said he could do that. I need to do that for the kids (just because I am upset with my H doesn't mean they should suffer by not seeing their father) and for my H. He needs to see what it is like to have to entertain 2 teenagers for 2 days straight, alone. I really think (and hope) he is going to be really surprised when he moves. I do everything at home including cooking, cleaning, finances, grocery shopping, laundry, dry cleaning runs, caring for the kids and running them to their sports events and other activities and appointments. Now, he is going to have to do all that for himself. He is going to realize it isn't all fun and independence. He has more freedom living here than he will on his own simply because I do everything and he doesn't have to. Maybe as a result, he will see how much I do and appreciate me more. The hard part for me, after I talked about the visitation schedule for the kids, was realizing I am going to be completely alone every other weekend when he has the kids. I have not spent a night alone in almost 15 years. Days are okay because I can find things to do or visit friends, but at night it is going to be so lonely. But who knows, maybe I'll love it. Right now, though, the thought makes me feel really sick and scared. I am really starting to resent my H for putting us all in this position. It just doesn't seem fair. Yes, I still love him and hope a full reconciliation is possible, but I cannot help feeling angry at him for all he has done to us (to me, our children [our 14 yr old daughter is now suffering from depression as a result and has withdrawn from everyone at home and at school] and our extended family who are all hurt by his actions). I guess I'll just have to keep posting here to try and get support because I'm really going to need it when he actually is gone!

hurtandafraid,<p>This kind of post make my heart ache. Yes, he needs to go away and live in his cave and let it be. It is a good sign actually if you beleive H really sincere about it. It is a way for martian to resolve the issues do not take it personally ... it is all about him. You have to let H goes and be bcak on his own will. You are doing correctly by counting your pluses, it helps your spirit up. From what you say either H will have to suffers or let OW cleans up his [censored].<p>DO NOT BE AFRAID and keep praying, the truth will shine. Yes, it is very lonely at night ... post here and help others ... there are many that needs our supports.

Hi, <p>First and foremost------>((((((((hugs))))))))<p>I am sorry that you have to deal with this, at least he is being honest, time apart right now may be the best thing for everyone. <p>I am not sure how helpful it would be to ask your daughter to read SAA, it really might help her see that there is hope, and that is something we all need.<p>I have been thinking about setting up a message board of my own on my site for kids involved with this, they too need a place to vent their frustrations regarding this too, esp a young teenage D.<p>I would get Steves advice on having your D read thru SAA before hand.<p>As for yourself . . . . let your support group know that you need them right now, take a hot bath, light some candles, relax. Make it a habit to give yourself time everyday.<p>breath, relax, move forward.

Thank you for your support and kindness. You don't believe how much it helps. I check my posts several times a day to look for new responses because I really enjoy all the suggestions and input everyone has. My H just left to check out his apartment. He said if he takes it it will be ready for him to move in on March 4th. A week away! We were just at my office for him to do some work on my computer and I asked him a couple questions. I asked if he has set a time limit to see if he feels anything for me (I said, you aren't going to wait like 6 months and if you feel nothing, are you going to file for divorce?). He said 6 months is a long time and if he hasn't felt anything by then, he doesn't think he will. I told him it can take 2 years from the date of separation to get a divorce. He said that would only be if there were disputes, etc. I said, or if one party believes that extra time would make a difference. I told him you can't spend 16 years with someone and then want to just completely end it in a couple months! He didn't have a lot to say about that. I asked him if he just wanted to see if he would miss me and determine exactly what it is he misses and he said yes. I asked him if he thought he would miss me after spending this many years with me. He said probably. Then I jokingly said, or are you looking forward to getting rid of me? He laughed and said he's getting to that point in this conversation!!! At least he's joking around with me a bit. <p>Everyone I told to thinks it is so weird that he wants to move out, yet we are still sleeping together, he still kisses me goodbye every morning and gives me a hug when he wakes up. He gave me a Valentine's Day card that said "To my better half" and talked about all the things we have shared together. He said he is going to call me regularly when he's gone. We even went out for dinner and to a concert on Friday night together. Does this sound like someone who wants a divorce or someone who is just confused? I know I am sure confused. I know that maybe it will do us both some good to be away from each other for a while (I hope not too long, though). These mixed signals are making me crazy. I want so badly to be close to him again. I cannot stand his hiding things (like his new cell phone -which he locks so I won't check on the calls he's made). We used to be so open to each other about everything. That is something we were always able to do -- talk to each so openly and honestly about everything. I used to feel so lucky that we had the ability to do that because so many couples these days aren't able to communicate as well as we did. Well thanks again for being there for me. I'm gonna need it in the next couple weeks!!!!!<p>Donna

Donna,<p>When H is in the fog, nothing make sense. It is a rationalization of their selfish behavior. You are doing the right thing by not LB'ed, it take a lot of courage. You should start taking new activities also to get busy during at night. Either reading book, going to the gymn, or join to learn new dance steps ... fill in your time, volunteer your time at your church, they always need people to lend hand.<p>Have you read CarolKH's post ?. I made the same sugestion to need2bhappy. For a cakemen, you shake their belief that the relationship with you will be there, no harm even after A or worst could have it both way. Test it first and give a try.

Wow, hurt&afraid, your story sounds so much like mine. My WH told me 3 weeks ago he loves another woman at work and can't stop seeing her after I gave him an ultimatum. After begging him to stay for several weeks, he decided to move out yesterday and stay with his sister. My kids are 17 & 11--they think he'll be right back. In a way, they're right. He keeps coming back to check on us, says he feels homeless, but then turns around and says he wants a divorce right away and get it over with. Now he says he's even broken up with OW. But he's moved out anyway to sort things out. <p>I know this doesn't help you too much, but it helps me to know others are going through the same thing and surviving, even if it's not very pleasant.<p>My husband has always worked nights, so you would think that the change would be no different for me. I've been alone nearly every night for 18 years. The nights are horrible for me now, especially last night after he left. The kids went to stay with friends, and I was completely alone. <p>He has never paid a bill, so this will be a rude awakening for him. He never participated much in child care, so I don't know how he'll help me out with that, even though my oldest is pretty independent. <p>Anyway, you're in my prayers, and I almost consider you a "sister in arms." Let's hope that this works out for both of us.<p>camp83

Dear Camp 83<p>Yes our stories do sound similar. My H also has never paid a bill. He even asked me how you open up a checking account!!!! I am having such difficulty being strong, though. I guess after our talk at my office, he decided he needed to get out for a while and told me while I was cooking dinner that he was going shopping. I told him the stores aren't open that late on Sunday night and he gave me a hard time about why I was questioning him like that. I told him I wasn't questioning him, I was just trying to be courteous and save him a trip. He ended up not coming home until 9. By that time I was really upset knowing that he couldn't have been shopping that late on a Sunday night. He came in the door and I did try to play it cool, but then just lost it. I started crying and told him I was worried about him, etc. He asked me why I would worry about him and I told him that I loved him and I can't just shut off my feelings like that. It was just a little over 4 months ago that I thought I had the perfect marriage. Now I am looking at the possibility of divorce and that really frightens me. <p>Try and keep your chin up as I will try to myself. Hopefully our H's will realize what they are missing and come to their senses. I'll keep you in my thoughts also.<p>Donna

Your H sounds so much like mine.. just had to give ita try and see.. well since I am queen of lb... now.. it is a little worse.. when i plan a everything is much better... so I reccomend you keep doing it.. but no cake for the cakeman, I know it is hard to do this, my h is major cakeman.. but there are so many similarities in how our h's are acting it is silly/ crzy, ther must be a ws manual for men... <p>RMM, trying anyway.

It sounds like you are filling EM's that your husband is going to miss! That is part of what plan "B" is all about. I would caution you against letting him continue contact with you after he moves out. It is a thin line, but if you keep filling his EM's, what is going to make him miss you.<p>I know that implementing a true plan "B" is very hard! I stuggled for several weeks after asking my WH moved out. When I finally stopped all contact with him, he came out of the fog. <p>Now he is back home and our marriage is thriving because he wants it to! He is the leader in our recovery. I truely believe that is the way it had to be! I also believe that it took plan "B" to help him wake-up and realize that he wanted our marriage to work.<p>Prayers are with you!<p>Le

I have continued to try and be "nice" to my H because I do love him. Now, though, he is beginning to get irritable and even seems angry at me. He keeps saying he wants to leave, but hasn't. It is so stressful dealing with him day to day like this. I keep thinking I should tell him again he needs to leave. Tonight he told me to stop kissing his a**. I told him I wasn't doing that, but he just got mad and drove away. He hasn't eaten dinner with us in 4 nights. My son just said dad is never home any more. I am just so emotionally drained that I really think I need for him to move out soon or I'm just going to lose it. I was doing okay for a while, but his continued mood swings, etc. are taking its toll on me (and my children). I need to start working on me, but whenever he is home I feel so tense in my own house! <p>I guess I am just going to have to somehow try and not let it bother me too much and just spend my time with my kids.<p>Donna

Donna,
It is normal reactions from WS when they see changes in BS ... they could not accept it. It is easier for them to push BS away and hope that BS will get tired of trying. I know how hard it is but you must hang in there.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I guess I am just going to have to somehow try and not let it bother me too much and just spend my time with my kids.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, your kids need you more than ever now.

Are you considering Plan B? Or some form of detachment to protect yourself from hurting?<p>I personally think it sounds like he wants time to pursue his affair without the guilt of coming home to you. <p>And I sincerely hope he gets a dose of reality. I don't know you or your H, but have you read CarolK's post on GQII?

I talked to my H last night and asked him why he is ignoring me now. He said he didn't realize he was acting differently and apologized. He said he just isn't in the talking mood right now!<p>I actually feel he is moving out for the same reasons. I asked him point blank (since he told me he was going to be honest with me now) if that was his reason for leaving and he said no. Now that I think about it that was a really dumb question. Like I was thinking he was going to admit it to me (what was I thinking?). I have read CarolK's post. It sounds like a good idea, but implementing it when you are still together is tough. I do really good all day when I am not with him, but as soon as he comes home, the tension sets in and I turn into an emotional mess. I guess I just miss the person he used to be and want so badly to have the closeness we had before. It feels like my husband is gone and I am now living with a stranger. I miss him SO much I can't stand it sometimes. I want my best friend/husband back again. I just hope he is still in there somewhere and once the fog clears, we can have something better than we did before.