Dday#1 in '99. Recovery never achieved due to lying to me, our therpist, etc. Finally, after 18mos of lying told me the truth (under extreme pressure). OW was continually supplying me w/info and H was lying about it - even in our therapy sessions. This was so hurtful to me that OW was more honest than my own H! H was aware of how dishonesty was thwarting recovery but still chose to lie. My question is this: H confessed a few days ago to personal conv. w/ new female at work (under duress again). For the past yr, I had been questioning him about pages, coffees,personal conv., etc., and he would show me most of the pages but deleted some as well as an email. I would get upset about the personalness of the contact and beg for him to stop. Throughout this period, he was denying a personal relationship yet wouldn't agree to cut off personal contact based on my feelings. My support grp advised that his refusal was a clear indication that this relationship was more important than saving our marriage, so I proceeded to Plan B. I told him I wanted a separation, and refused to be involved w/him. Still, I did not know if there was an affair. The grp told me to look at his behavior for signs similar to Affair #1. Well, he took his ring off, bought new underwear, told her he was divorcing, went out at lunch w/her to look at housing, and when confronted, said a lot of the things he said re: OW#1 (which were lies). I don't know if he is telling the truth and plan B is not necessary or if he is innocent and just the victim of his own lies in the past.
Also, therapists tell me that I will know he "get's it" if he ever talks about the affair and his responsibility for it without referring to our marriage, stress, his childhood, etc. in the same conversation. They say he has to understand that healing will not come until he levels w/himself about his bad choices. I am waiting for the day that he tells someone about it w/out preceding or following up the conversation with all of is "reasons" for having an affair.
Sorry so long, but I am so confused and need opinions.

Welcome to MB. You may be new here but you have been in your situation for a while. How much have you read here? Sounds like you know a bit about plan A and B. <p>L.

I have been coming to this site for a couple of yrs. What I don't understand is how do you do a Plan B, when your WS won't agree to a separation? Also, do you need proof before Plan B or is just the fact that H will not discontinue relationship (whatever it is) good enough.
Thanks for listening.

You can plan b in the same house. It is not easy but it is possible (minus the part about seeing each other of course). Just because your H is not willing to seperate, does not mean that you cannot do so. You can move out if you wish. I know that such is not your first choice but you likely don't want to live in the house with him while he is out continueing his A.<p>Another option is tough love - very similiar to plan b. You can read more on tough love in Love Must Be Tough.

Here's a suggestion:<p>Write down what you think you are doing to currently meet his needs. Could be making the home a safe and comfortable environment, cooking, cleaning, taking care of the children, etc. <p>Then determine which of those things you can stop without hurting your needs and those of your other family members. <p>That is what plan B does, is removes the burden of you 'enabling the A' or at least give that impression. <p>In your casual conversations, bring up similar examples of others who are doing things like your H is doing and get his feedback. Then at a 'later time' mention that you feel he is doing to you what he does not approve others of doing to their W, families etc. It does not have to be the exact same thing, just a way to use his own logic back at him. Kinda hard so think abou this for a while. <p>L.