We are eight months beyond my wife breaking all contact with OM. Plan A, at that point in time, a complete success!<p>Since then, I have continued my Plan A as well as I can. My wife has suggested that she loves me and made suggestions that she sees this as a lifetime commitment. She makes me aware of her whereabouts and leaves her cellphone bill out for me to see.<p>We have holidayed as couple in the warmth of the Canaries and as a family there too. I made Valentines Day special and her Birthday too.<p>But how long do I carry on for?<p>If I show affection, she STILL pulls away. I gave up hoping for sex long ago. She has developed an almost obsessive compulsion for cleaning, and expects me to share it (hey, this isn't a male chauvenist thing - I don't expect her to spend every minute of her day cleaning).<p>So, as I see it, I pay the bills, get nagged and receive nothing in the affection zone in response.<p>In additon, the depression that resulted from discovery has affected my performance at work and I am now being moved to other duties.<p>I really want to become king of my own destiny again. But I simply don't feel able to talk to my wife as she hasn't really reconnected with me. She also refuses counselling.<p>Heeeeeeeeeeeeeelp!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by manfromtheuk:
<strong> My wife has suggested that she loves me and made suggestions that she sees this as a lifetime commitment. She makes me aware of her whereabouts and leaves her cellphone bill out for me to see.<p>I simply don't feel able to talk to my wife as she hasn't really reconnected with me. She also refuses counselling.<p></strong><hr></blockquote><p>Hello, Manfromuk.
Don't know if I can help or not, but I would like to suggest a couple of options.<p>I suspect there is a lot of guilt on her part for the A. That might explain the "cleaning" jag. Assuming that much cleaning is a new part of her personality?<p>Secondly, without Counseling, I suspect your W will not realize how "normal" all her feelings are. Eight months is a long time to still feel "unattached" to you. She should be over her addiction by now, and you two should be moving closer to each other. She REALLY needs to see a counselor. <p>Do you talk? Just talk? About the kids, the weather, YOUR dreams, your fears (NOT about the A), her thoughts about ANYTHING? Part of "reconnecting" is becoming friends all over again. I hope you are working on that aspect of your relationship. Talk, joke and laugh together. Share small moments. They build into bigger, intimate ones.<p>Is she open to reading any books? There are many good ones out there. Torn Asunder is one of my favorites. After the Affair (by Janis Spring? I think?) has been highly recommended. I have it, but haven't started reading it yet, as there is NO end in sight for my H's A!! I know you said she refuses to go to counseling. Could it be because she thinks they are going to "jump all over her" for even having an A? If she knows it won't be so, maybe she will be much more open to it. Maybe the Harley tapes, rather than speaking with a "live" person? She could "hear" what is all about what she is feeling.<p>Hope this "breaks" soon. You have been very patient, and loving H through all this. It's too bad she doesn't see that. I trust that the behavior in you that may have led to her unhappiness and consequent A have been put away through your Plan A efforts?<p>Good luck, and may God Bless,

We do talk. We do get on. But we avoid the emotional stuff.<p>I think I'm simply scared of lovebusting big time!<p>She gave up smoking at the new year ... and has started again (without telling me).<p>This has given rise to added concerns about honesty (she started smoking during affair!) even tho I am 99.9% sure there is no contact.<p>Oh for a happy life!

manfromtheuk,<p>Check be alert on her behavior ... sudden change on her mood or behavior. See if 50 signs ring an alarm bell. I would snoop but be very carefull and if you find out anything ... vent here and get our views on the situation.<p>You have to start opening up ... stale M is doom for another A. No LB is a must ... it is protection for your M. Plan A is fillin ENs as much as she allows you to ... it is care, now you have to fine a way to accomplish spending time - quality time w/ heart to heart talk plus you should be honest aout your feeling about this. Otherwise you will be prone to have A !.<p>IMHO, your have start talking R at some point !. You must to but you have to be able to bring it up w/ love & care & honesty and at the very safe setting. Learn to tell your feeling w/o LB !, make it is all about you and let her listen and no actions required of her part. Just fact about your feeling ... no anger, no judgement, no demand ....<p>Good Luck -RH-

I guess what I'm asking is:<p>1. Do I withdraw from her and hope for a repsonse<p>or<p>2. Do I assertively state my needs and see what response I get<p>or<p>3. Carry on the same and hope for the best

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by manfromtheuk:
<strong>
I really want to become king of my own destiny again. But I simply don't feel able to talk to my wife as she hasn't really reconnected with me. She also refuses counselling.<p></strong><hr></blockquote><p>Manfromuk.....<p>I'm going to go way out on a limb here, and based on this little comment you made......I'm going to suggest something very radical.<p>If you really want to "be king of your own destiny..." then GO FOR IT!<p>Take back your life. DO whatever it is that brings YOU pleasure. Do you sail? Play tennis? Golf? Rummy? whatever. If not........take up a NEW hobby. I think it's time to "move on" and have "things to do" at times when you would normally be home, just being without "connecting." Know what I mean? <p>Maybe it'll shake her up enough that she'll realize that she might be losing YOU! That might make her wonder. Then you can "open up and talk" to each other about what your future is. <p>The four points of a solid M are Time, Patience, Protection, Care. I don't see her showing YOU any care!!! You (I hope you are saying) have been consistent with your Plan A. If so, then with enough Time (8 months IS enough time!), there should be "a turn-around." You have been patient. I think it's time to shake her up a little bit. Start doing some 180's. Make her think you might be "moving on." Dress up and GO OUT ALONE. Just tell her you are going out and will be home at such-and-such a time. It will either rattle her, or she doesn't really care. Either way, you'll find out where you stand and what she really wants from you!<p>If you can do that, and shake her world, you might find out what she really expects to happen from here.<p>My .02<p>Good Luck, and May God Bless,

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by manfromtheuk:
<strong>I guess what I'm asking is:<p>1. Do I withdraw from her and hope for a repsonse<p>or<p>2. Do I assertively state my needs and see what response I get<p>or<p>3. Carry on the same and hope for the best</strong><hr></blockquote><p>IMVHO. None of the above ... #1 is dangerous actions, you will be mistaken as a unloving action. You are competeting w/ OM if there is contact !!!, don't let OM win by default. #2 is an LB ... demanding ! #3 is not good b/c you will get frustrated and LB$ will continue be decreasing <p>Doing 180 degree as lupolady suggested is an option. However it might not work w/ WW , it works better w/ WH ... Also, it works best w/ a strong love history.<p>If your plan A is not working ... you have to review your plan A !. Either you didn't hit the mark & sloppy plan A or A is continuing !. Figure out what is your situation before taking any actions. The most important thing is you have to learn how to communicate w/ your wife !. Heart 2 heart. NO LB'ed.
Good luck -RH-

She is doing 2 things that lead to affairs:<p>conflict avoidance
focusing on projects (cleaning)<p>Both of these are ways to avoid doing the obvious, working thru the affair.<p>Have you had counseling? Sure sounds like it would help a lot. It saved our marriage. If you haven't read Torn Asunder, it's a great book and very helpful.<p>Good luck. I hope you can get her to see that her avoidance is going to result in no real rebuilding.

Thanks for the answers. Mmmm ... I "like" (for want of a better word) a Plan A review.<p>No, she has declined counselling although I am having some.<p>I am sure there has been no meeting or phone contact. But perhaps email contact? Interestingly, tonight, I notice her screen name on the PC now blocks ALL parties from contacting her. Previously it has only blocked his screen name. And presumably he could have contacted her through another s/n. Mmmmm - perhaps this is a partial contribution to the ice maiden;s behaviours!<p>Time to repostion counselling in a positive way perhaps - this was a big LB previously. Wish me luck! And thanks.

Hi, <p>Plan A is good to show your changes and give the WS a chance to restore your trust and love. <p>For now ask her how she plans to restore your trust. STay away from the word 'love'. <p>Let her show U. In the meantime you work on keeping yourself busy and happy. This can include doing things as a couple, family or alone. Let her know that you are willing to move forward. <p>Keep up with the individual counseling. It is hard to go it alone. You can vent here when you need. But don't take her responsibility away from her. Don't enable her. <p>JMHO,
L.

Thanks orchid.<p>I have now got my mind comfortable with both outcome ... marriage succeeding and marriage ending.<p>It is how long to put up with the bit before this that is driving me bonkers!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by manfromtheuk:
<strong>....It is how long to put up with the bit before this that is driving me bonkers!</strong><hr></blockquote><p>You hit it right on. We, BS, take those treatment (a doormat like) to buy time ... to buy time to fix ourself from the past mistake and to show our changes become a habit ... to buy time to let A burst on it own. However when BS does his/her best and still no changes ... then LB$ will go down toward bankrupcy. There is a time BS has to take control back and if WS doesn't turn around, it is WS's losses.<p>Who is going to FA Cup this year, any predictions ?. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>-RH-

My money's on arsenal after the won the final 2-0! lol

I did the unthinkable - I asked my wife the question!<p>Gulp!<p>I got apologies for the affair, explanations of her emotions since the breaking of contact and reassurance that she was "nurturing" warmer feelings for our marriage - as well as a request for a little more time for her to deal with her emotions and what she got caught up in.<p>I feel better for it. I feel better for her telling me my time online worries her too! Time to switch this damn computer off!

Hey mate ... you are doing good ... a lot of BS miss understood "not to bring R or A" in plan A. While they are in the fog you avoided !!! but hwen there is a slight ray shine through the fog ... you could take advantage of it and of course w/o LB. You should start learn how to open up your feeling too since she "trusted" you with hers [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>Her wish is your command [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ... turn off the machines and we won't fault you if you are away for a while. Just update us once in a while. Good luck -RH-