Well, W was late getting to MC, but we were able to get next timeslot (at the expense of one of our "free" visits). So, we drove separate cars.<p>Session ended very badly. I'll go into this more in a while, depending on whether my W gets home soon or not. Got wireless internet working now, so I could take my laptop outside for some quiet (about 5 of my son's friends are over now).<p>I think I may need to go to a plan B soon, even DV. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

2long,<p>How was the session ? Why make you want to do plan B ?. My WW rejects conseling long time ago ... after 3 sessions.<p>I will be around tonight.<p>-RH-

2long,<p>What is up? What happened to make this sudden change? If you don't want to post all here, you know how to reach me.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

Redhat, JL:<p>Well, didn't end up with time to post last night, because W and I TALKED a LOT about the session and what was said (and what's "gone down" over the past month or so). More about this, but I think we're really going to be okay after all.<p>First, the session. The usual (over the past few visits, at least) "we're getting along great" followed by a grilling of why I'm being demanding, why my W doesn't want to give up OM, with the upshot being that she doesn't feel like her feelings are being considered, that she's being expected to "turn off" her feelings for OM, even though I and the MC keep saying "no, we can't expect you to do that, but that's the very reason why no contact is necessary - to protect your feelings and help you resist temptation". Other stuff, like the never wanted to get M'd comments, and giving up her goals to put my goals at top priority and so on. <p>When we left, W wouldn't hold hands and didn't want to talk. Since we drove separate cars, I went home to work on some maps for her, and she went shopping to think. When she got home about an hour later, everything seemed "fine". This mystified me. We started talking after dinner when we were alone. Talked for a good 2 hours, then some more this morning as she got ready to head up north for 2 days in the field. <p>Well, I guess I have to think now that it is possible that our incomplete communication and misunderstandings are mushrooming our situation out of proportion in my mind, and hers as well. For example, though I don't KNOW what is said between my W and OM in these emails about her report, I do believe that the dialog is kept at a minimum, and that my W's withdrawl from him must have started last November-January and so she is sincere when she says she doesn't want an EA or PA with him or anyone again. And, although the things she said in her email last March to him were very hurtful to me, they were nevertheless said in what she thought was a "this is over" kind of message. She's said many times that she doesn't care whether he wants or doesn't want to continue the A, and I think now that this is in some way her way of saying that "his life is not her problem" and so I can accept that. She gets hung up on our "insistence" of no contact because they will likely see each other at professional meetings, and she doesn't think I'll believe her when she says she'll never be alone with him again or speak to him about personal things again. So, she's working on her version of "no contact", keeping in mind that this damned report from him is still incomplete (long story about the CD! ...also kinda hilarious, in some respects). I think I can get her to be more open with me about when she needs to correspond with him about even the work-related things, without her getting upset with me for "not trusting" her. I've told her I don't, but I really want to, and so she's not getting so upset with that as before. <p>I'm sure I've left a lot out of what we've talked about, and I'll try to fill in more, but I think the main thing I'm trying to say is that much of my fears of late were due to the "mushroom factor" caused by us avoiding talking about sensitive issues up until recently, and my W's fears of what I might do if I knew she had emailed OM, even just about work. Now I think she's not so worried about how I'll react, and so she'll be more open to tell me when they correspond for work. <p>We talked a lot this morning about our R, both the history of it and the "promise" of the future. I think I made a good funny, when she said that she's always had a problem with "promising forever" (because her mom took a lot of abuse from her 2 husbands, and was left without support after her last DV). I said "Heck, we're both almost 50. It isn't like 'forever' is all that much longer!" [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] She liked that.<p>So, I went from being pretty distraught over our situation last evening, wanting to give up entirely on our M (even told her that), to feeling like we've really got some good, solid foundations to build on now, and even a strong chance at beginning a true recovery!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I think I'll even go so far as to say that I probably should move my future posts about our M to the "recovery" forum. That will feel neat.

2long
you sound so much better. I am glad.

mo5:<p>Thanks!! I feel better today!

2Long;<p>A couple of thoughts; 1st, I think it's a very important move forward that she's beginning to trust you, which is shown by her willingness to discuss "sensitive" things (my W's not even close to there yet), so that's a positive.<p>If I may, I'd suggest you have a talk with her about your understanding about withdrawl. A loving talk. Let her know that you understand the feelings she must be going thru, that this is normal, and that you understand it. And let her know that you WANT to help her thru that. And the way to do it is for her to tell you when she's feeling these things, and whn she does, you will be understanding and you will comfort her.<p>It'll be har for you, I'm sure, but if she begins to do this, she will start associating the pain with him, and the comfort and support with you. That should be positive.<p>And another thing; if she feels "guilty" when she has to contact him about work, suggest to her that she BCC you on her emails to him; that might make her feel like she doesn't have to hide it, and she doesn't have to come out and actually tell you when she does, but that you'll know. And it might start creating a bit of a bond between you two, a little "secret" she shares with you at the "expense" of the OM. Just don't hammer her if she says something a bit out of line, treat that with the same love and care that you'll treat her withdrawl.<p>Maybe some concrete steps like these could be worked out, run them by the MC, I think if you start to create an environment where she's demonstrating more loyalty to you than to OM, that should be good.

SC:<p>Good suggestions. I've been doing some of this, talking to her about withdrawl and how I want to be the one to comfort her when she's down. In the recent past, she's been pretty unreceptive to this, because she wasn't willing to admit she was in that position, but I think this is changing. <p>I do like the idea of asking her to bcc me on the emails. Ironically, last night after dinner, we were checking some problems with her maps, and she asked if she could take our scanner to work to scan samples. I said sure, but offered to scan them at home. She said, okay, but I should probably tell you that these will be sent to OM for inclusion in his writeups, and she wasn't sure I'd want to work on them. Well, I made points and said that I don't have a problem if the ultimate goal is to get this report DONE, which helps HER, and so long as the emails are strictly business. So we're going to scan the samples at home this weekend, onto her computer, and send them to OM. <p>I've been doing my damnedest to resist this giddy temptation to send him an email of my own, saying something like "OM, quit being such a f***in' goof with this report, get it done, and get out of our lives, for rice cake." But I really only go over lines like that in my head for my own amusement. I wouldn't send him an email without POJAing it first with the spousal unit.<p>Feeling productive today! Back to work!

2long,<p>Not much to say ... this is what we call it 'coaster ride of your life. Hang on tight and vent here !!!. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>-RH-

RH:<p>You're right! Got my seatbelt and shoulder straps on! No appendages outside the car!

I've moved this topic to "in recovery" if any of you are having trouble following me around!<p>I really feel good about the move. I don't think it's premature! (at least, I'm pretty hopeful)