TheLion,<p>The one thing I took from most of your posts here on this thread is that your WW confessed to you. I read somewhere (can't remember where though) that recovery is easier when the WS confesses before it's discovered. You seem very early in your dday and I think your actions have been right on. I know it wasn't your choice to be in Plan B, but the no contact must be a blessing (buried under all that pain). She is pursuing a relationship that is dead, she must be frantic and will hopefully recognize her attempts are futile.<p>I wish you peace and happiness!<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TheLion:
<strong>Hello - Is this a bad dream:<p>One thing that bothers me a lot is we as BS have done nothing wrong and still have to suffer along just to save our M and love, what kind of reality is this ? I am just like you tired, exhausted and dead, don't know how long I can survive this.<p>thelion</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Lion,
So you were in Hawaii Kai!!!! I miss the islands. Loved the food and beaches. Oh yea, my family too!! LOL!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>In response to your above quote, you are right it is wrong to make someone else hurt but they can't have an A unless someone gets hurt. See there is no BS unless they are married. If they were both single then they would only do it to each other. <p>Now since that is our current situations, take a long hard look at yourself. If you are old enough to really know yourself, then focus on what your personal boundaries are. Read SAA and Love must be tough. Those are 2 good books. Also his needs/her needs is helpful in helping you see what makes the female gender tick. We are a bit of an oddity to you men from mars!!! LOL! But pay attention you need to know that it is possible to get along with our female kind. We are just stubborn and like a lot of reassurance. Even though we know we are doing good, something about that curse ("you will crave for your husband and he will dominate you") is somewhat instilled in many women. Not all mind you but many. Hormonal differences also come into play. That first female (Eve) really screwed up! Now many pay the price. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Anyhow, see if those books help out, then let us know what you think. Have you taken the emotional needs questionnaire?<p>L.

I bought the SAA book last night and started reading right away. Haven't gotten too far but I have realized that I tried to do Plan A for the 1st month that he wasn't even living at home. I didn't go to Plan B until I found out he was still seeing OW. I have been seeing a Counselor for a year now. 1st because of my depression due to my medical crisis and then when I found out about A. WH went with me for first 2 sessions after D-Day but told her that I was ready to pounce when I entered the room and he felt I was asking for something that he couldn't give me. His way of getting out of going with me to counseling and continue to see OW and not feel as guilty. He continued to see her for about a month until counselor told him that he really needed to figure out what he wanted before he came back to her. She told me she got the feeling that he thought he had to report to her and was going to start withholding stuff from her. She assured him that she would be there any time that he wanted to come and see her. She told me as soon as I found out that WH was still seeing OW to cut all strings and only communicate what is necessary. I haven't seen him since Mothers Day (actually brought me a card). Have talked on the phone to him since a week ago yesterday and that was only to discuss schedules with the kids for the holiday weekend. I did e-mail him today and asked if he wanted to have S for fathers day weekend and it would help be as well as there was something that I wanted to do that weekend as well. He actually replied back (hasn't been replying to e-mails regarding finances, etc.) His response was that he would be happy to keep S for the weekend. Told me to enjoy myself and asked if it was work related or not. My reply was No it isn't work related. I guess you could call it a Me Weekend. I plan on doing a lot of thinking and journaling. His response was that he was Sorry he shouldn't have asked and to have a good time. Told him apology accepted and I will talk to you later. I have tried extremely hard not to be here when he picks up S (15). I make plans with a girlfiend for lunch, movie, or stop at the gym on the way home, or tomm. I am going for a massage, something I have done since Oct. I really believe part of H's problems are financial problems at work and he also turned 40 last year and has been in the MLC since then. He wants no responsibilites, and no one to have to rely on him. You owe it to yourself and if you have kids to take care of you first. I know that I have always put everyone else before me. H said the exact opposite however that I was selfish and didn't care who I hurt to get what I wanted. He still has up and down days. One day he will see me and tell me that he still loves me and then 2 days later he can hardly look at me and gives me nothing but LB's and empties what he had in my Love Bank. I've rambled enough. Just want to get across the point that yeah I miss him a ton but I decided that I needed to be strong and think right for my kids and myself and the way that I do that is Plan B and taking care of myself and doing things that I haven't done in a long time. <p>Take care and take it day by day and remember you are the most important person to you at this point so treat yourself that way. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Thanks Free2BMe:<p>Yes she confessed to me on 3/19 that she has a feeling for someone, than she went to see him overseas 3/21 and 3/29 she called me desparately asking me to book the next plane out of that country which I did. Thats when 3/29 she told me about the PA and that the A is over.<p>But Free! I don't understand if the A is dead why is she so deep in the FOG. I can forgive but cannot forget what she has done and the way she has hurt me, but if she does not come out of this FOG soon I think I will have to move on, I am running out of patience, this withdrawl is going on since last 6 months I was not aware of the A and had countless nights without sleep.<p>Will appreciate your feedback.
TheLion

Hi Orchid:<p>I miss the beaches too, especially the North Shore I used to go there very often, it really is a paradise if I have a choice I would want to settle there.<p>Well I wish you all the best orchid, I dont know your story but if you are here I am assuming you have pain.<p>I have ordered those books and will read, by the way I think I have read enough to get a PHD in A by now, but will continue to do that it helps.<p>
Have you taken the emotional needs questionnaire?<p>I have done for myself my W she does not want to even look at it, when they are in FOG they just can't see the real world. too bad for them.<p>TheLion<p>L.[/QB][/QUOTE]

Hi - by Is this a bad dream:<p>"I know that I have always put everyone else before me. "<p>Stop doing that, that is what that hurts, I was similar like you I had suppressed all my needs just to make my wife and our family happy but in the end got the same s*** as you H is telling U.<p>We all need to focus on OURSELF, I, ME and than if something is left in us go and give it to others that the way REAL world operates. Too bad.<p>hang tight and keep patience! thats all we all can do.
TheLion

Hi Lion,<p>Just dropping by quickly....... howz about taking the EN questionnaire for your W. How you think she would respond. You may not be 100% accurate, but it may be an eye opener. If the fog ever starts to lift, you could share it with here. Kinda like the quizzes on the Newlywed game. LOL!!!!<p>Aloha,
L.

Hi Orchid:<p>I told her even gave MB web site address, gave her Steve phone number even told her I will take care of the money part do not worry, she is not ready to listen. I even mentioned about the ENs questionaire no response. I was thinking of printing and giving it to her it wont hurt if she fills out great if she does not no problem there.<p>what do you think ?<p>P.S. By the way I dont think it has anything to do with EN's but I may be wrong the OM was her classmate they had something from start which I am not aware of she denies though... there are lot of complecations like her parents didn't get along well. The OM had always talk to my W about other girls, but she says she had a crush since college but never talked to him until JAN 2000 by the way the OM is overseas my W only met her 3 times in 2 years and that too for a day on each occasion. ...<p>Maybe the only need I may have not met is conversation but I think I did, maybe she needed more....rest all the EN were pretty much covered I would rather think lots of my EN's were never met but I did not go out and had a A just to please or get what I want I was and I am committed to my M thats very important to me.<p>Aloha! TheLion

Sometimes woman and men desperately want something they can't have. Is your W codependant? Whenever a relationship ended for me I was extremely emotional and in a deep depression. Is this typical for her when a relatonship is terminated? Sooner or later I think she will get the picture and start to heal from this rejection. The question is - do you want to stick around in hopes of healing your marriage? It must be tough to be in your situation - I was lucky, my WH never became emotionally attached to his other women, he was just in it for the game then he dropped them.<p>RECOVER REFOCUS REGENERATE<p>BREATHE<p>BREATHE<p>I wish you peace and joy!<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi Free2BMe:<p>Maybe you are right she is CO DEPENDENT, I need to read more on this....<p>Looks like you this is her 1st rejection and I am not aware of any before....maybe she is too emotional and in depression. who knows, how can you tell, after so many lies and manipulation the trust is gone, I cannot believe this is happening..<p>"stick around in hopes of healing your marriage?"<p>I am trying my best but honestly I am not sure how long I can survive this...<p>"It must be tough to be in your situation"
Extremely....excruciating pain, crying, not knowing what to do..etc....<p>How are things working out with you..keep us informed..<p>thelion

Good afternoon, TheLion,<p>Is there any way to pull yourself from her pain of her rejection and focus on yourself? I know the pain you describe. A few years ago when my H broke our engagement out of the blue (obviously before we married) I had such gut wrenching heart ache. I was inconsoulable (is that a word), but it's a little different for me this time. I think I still have my walls up from so many years ago and I really don't want to feel that pain. Yet, I know I need to. I have moments of sadness where I shed a tear, but it's nothing major.<p>Since being in true Plan B with no contact, I'm starting to loose the numbness. I'm being positive that I need to feel this, I need to go through this.<p>And I hope he's feeling it too.<p>I'm doing a lot of reflecting and self discovery. I try not to dwell on him or what he's done (or is doing). I did drive past his apartment today on my way into work. <p>Keep the faith!<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi Free2BMe:<p>I am trying to PULL myself out of this emotional ups and down I had 3-4 days which were good but since yesterday I am again in CRIES!!!!<p>"Since being in true Plan B with no contact, I'm starting to loose the numbness. I'm being positive that I need to feel this, I need to go through this."<p>I am with you and exactly at the same situation Plan B and STRONG... Thats all we can do...<p>"inconsoulable (is that a word)"<p>I guess it is and sound exactly like my W..<p>
"And I hope he's feeling it too."
They are in FOG they dont hear, feel anything."
Sorry we are all kidding ourself that they are feeling but in reality they are NOT...<p>You are allowed to drive drive past his apartment but do not peek or let your libido inside. Keep patience...<p>Keep the faith!
Thelion

Hello everyone -
I make every effort not to drive by his apartment, even if it means I go out of my way. When a girl friend picked me up for dinner one night and asked where I wanted to go. Told her anywhere that is close to the apartment. She understood and we had a great evening. I too feel that I'm loosing some of the numbness. Made arrangements for a weekend by myself. When asked if it was business by WH via e-mail. Told him no it isn't business you might say it is a me weekend. Plan on thinking and journaling a lot. That is another outlet for me. Journaling has made it possible for me to actually fall asleep at night when I didn't think it would be possible. I write down stuff that I would tell WF and OW and after I get it down on paper it seems to calm me.
The Lion - I think all of us can relate with the emotional ups and downs. I call them the rollercoaster. Some are caused by WH, a song on the radio or problems with decipline with the kids and he should be here to help handle. I get a little stonger each day that I don't have contact with him. Don't get me wrong, I don't want a DV but I do a lot of things with girlfriends, exercise and eat right. My Counselor told me that I have to take care of myself from day one. It took about 3 weeks for me to realize that I actually handle things better when I have control of a part of my life. You sure as h**l can't control all of it. If we could we wouldn't all be here. Take care and hang tight. Remember day by day and you are important and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise.

I make every effort as well not to drive by his apartment. I figured he wouldn't be home in the middle of the day so I just went by out of sadness. Actually, it's the first time I've been there since the week of May 6th when we moved him in. And I've only called his house about 3 times to pass along messages that were left at this house for him.<p>During the day when I get an urge to call him (after all, he was the first person I would call about anything in my life for 4-5 years) I will call my house and check for messages. I heard somewhere on the TV that most cravings last about 4 minutes and by the time I call and access the VM I don't have the urge to call anymore. Just a trick to get me through! <p>You are doing great, even with the ups and downs! Another day is done.<p>Peace and joy!
[img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TheLion:
<strong>Hi Orchid:<p>I told her even gave MB web site address, gave her Steve phone number even told her I will take care of the money part do not worry, she is not ready to listen. I even mentioned about the ENs questionaire no response. I was thinking of printing and giving it to her it wont hurt if she fills out great if she does not no problem there.<p>what do you think ?<p>P.S. By the way I dont think it has anything to do with EN's but I may be wrong the OM was her classmate they had something from start which I am not aware of she denies though... there are lot of complecations like her parents didn't get along well. The OM had always talk to my W about other girls, but she says she had a crush since college but never talked to him until JAN 2000 by the way the OM is overseas my W only met her 3 times in 2 years and that too for a day on each occasion. ...<p>Maybe the only need I may have not met is conversation but I think I did, maybe she needed more....rest all the EN were pretty much covered I would rather think lots of my EN's were never met but I did not go out and had a A just to please or get what I want I was and I am committed to my M thats very important to me.<p>Aloha! TheLion</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
Hi Lion,<p>Well you won't know for sure until it all comes clean. In the meantime, you read and talk with Steve, Jennifer or a closer MC. You work on you and let her drool!!! LOL!! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] . She will notice changes in you if she is watching and right now you don't know if she is or how much. <p>So take care of yourself and she will let you know with those bluntly subtle.....'are u seeing someone?', you look great - why?, You never did that for me!!!, etc. More babble. Recognize and regard it as such. Reply to what makes sense. Don't get suckered into the babble. <p>Take care,
L.

Hi - Is this a bad dream:<p>Thanks for the reply, hang in there, BD, try to be away from his apt as far as you can, thats what I am trying so that my W does not hurt me anymore than she has.<p>Keep journaling, it will help....<p>"Some are caused by WH, a song on the radio or problems with decipline with the kids and he should be here to help handle."<p>You are right whenever I hear the song the terars roll down my cheeks, I cannot help it....<p>Thanks once again!
The Lion

Hi Free2BMe:<p>Dont go there, dont visit the apt it will only bring back the emotional roll - coaster... It will not help. Try to be away from the apt.<p>You are doing great, even with the ups and downs! Another day is done.<p>Yup, hanging in there, and feeling a lot better.
How about you Free, keep us posted.<p>TheLion

Hi Orchid:<p>Thanks orchid, I had a good weekend, I had my LASIK eye surgery on Friday, It went great,<p>I need to ask you ? I did not tell my W about the surgery, though she works at the same place as my eye doctor even the same floor just 3 suite across the Hall.<p>I took a cab and got my surgery done and took a cab back, it felt great to do things on your own.<p>She called me sat, and wanted to meet I told her about the surgery and she was like WHAT ? she came to my apt brought some lunch, we both ate together. It was nice, than she asked me what made you decide to get the surgery done, I told her all this time I was thinking and doing things for you and the family, and this is something I wanted to do for myself, she was SHOCKED, well anyway, What do you make of all this is she peeping thru the FOG to see what is going on the real world, or is this just a trick to start the emotional trip again.<p>I am fine and taking things as it comes but will appreciate your thoughts...<p>Anyone else have any comments/advise please feel free to jump in.<p>TheLion

Morning Lion, <p>At least it is still morning out here. I just got back from taking lunch and misc things for my son's field trip. It is a bike ride to a local park up the street, a looooooong ride. LOL!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Anyway, I personally think you did good. You showed that you are very capable of moving forward with or without her. Why that fog makes them think it is ok to do stuff to their spouses but how dare you move forward for yourself, it outside this logical brain. When I decided I was not going to let him hold me back anymore, he got jealous? Can U believe it? Accused me of having an A and even told the OW. She called me and told me to stop making up stories. Arrrgh..... [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] LOL! <p>Anyway, I felt better and I hope you do also. See at that point the WS started showing some care in my direction and that pi$$ed of the OW bigtime. So you never know what will happen. That is why it is important for you to concentrate on yourself. <p>When she wants to be good to her family and you all can afford, hey take advantage of it and enjoy it. You all deserve that and more. That fact that later she may accuse you all of using her, blow that kind of talk off. Remind her that was her choice and like I like to tell the WS and even now that he back to being an H, I tell him 'well you know honey, I can't tell you what to do!'. <p>Take care,

TheLion,<p>You know those little crumbs they throw our way are just part of the game to see how we react. She may be sincere, but take it for what it may be. Don't get your hopes up. I think that's what got my H, he deliberately called to lie to me 2 weeks ago so I broke all contact and told him I refuse to play the parent role anymore. I know he wanted to get me upset and scream and yell (maybe to justify our nonexistance), but I pulled myself out of the game. I think that's why he wrote the letter - I have never reacted by not reacting. Make sense to you?<p>As for me, well, a good friend of ours passed away suddenly this morning so we are breaking the no contact right now. I'm nervous about it, but I don't want to do this alone. What do you think?<p>How are you feeling now that a few days have past since the surgery? I wish you a speedy recovery!<p> [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]