Hi Free:<p>Thank you for your comments, I agree the CRUMBS is what it is ? and honestly I did not fall for it and it makes them mad... I like it...<p>As for the loss of your friend, my sympathies, even though you break your B try to be away from the R talk during this crisis....<p>I am recovering fine have another appointment for a check up on Wednesday..all look good, thank you for asking...<p>You all have a nice evening...
Take Care! TheLion - The betrayed one!

Hi Orchid:<p>Thanks for your comments... It really helps to understand what we all are going thru...<p>"he got jealous? Can U believe it? Accused me of having an A and even told the OW."<p>yes, that is what happened how dare you make up decisions without me that hurt them the WS... Well they need to wake up...<p>I am concentrating on myself and it has helped a lot.. I think I can weather this storm, with or without her....<p>TheLion - The betrayed one!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TheLion:
<strong>Hi Orchid:
I am concentrating on myself and it has helped a lot.. I think I can weather this storm, with or without her....<p>TheLion - The betrayed one!</strong><hr></blockquote><p>That's the spirit Lion. Keep up the good work.

Hello Everyone!<p>I dont know if the plan B is working but I have been getting a lot of phone calls from my W but no talk of R its all about the house we are building and other stuff, I tried to keep it short 30 sec to 1 minute, but I have a feeling she wants to drag on the conversation longer and wants to talk to me, is this a sign that they peeking out of the FOG into the real world, I dont want to get my hopes up, but well what the heck.. <p>I want to be strong and hang in there, I have not told her about the plan B and have not written a letter yet, I personally think it is time to do that but just want to think it over for 2 weeks and do it.<p>Please let me have your comments, suggestions or any advise with experience I will take it all!<p>TheLion - The betrayed one!

Orchid - I can believe that he got jealous. My WH actually got upset because I planned a vacation to go and see my parents some time this summer with the kids. He told me that I was planning my future which I had every right to do but seemed like I was trying to look good in the kids eyes. Told him that I have every right to plan my future as he has every right to plan his. I would love for him to be a part of that future but he had to let me know. Made plans to go to a function out of town and asked him to keep son for the weekend (Fathers Day weekend mind you) and he didn't have a problem keeping him but assumed that I was going with someone. I laughed at him and told him no actually I'm going by myself because I need some time to think and I don't get that much time to myself to just think. He got upset because I bought new things for the bedroom and changed the colors in there. I explained to him that it was easy for him to go to bed at the apartment where we had never slept together but it was extremely hard for me to go up to that bedroom everynight and get into the bed that we had slept together in for more than 20 years. This all happened this weekend. Prior to that I was Plan B - ing so didn't have to listen to him. I am moving forward in my life and taking care of myself. That is the only thing you can do.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TheLion:
<strong>Hello Everyone!<p>I dont know if the plan B is working but I have been getting a lot of phone calls from my W but no talk of R its all about the house we are building and other stuff, I tried to keep it short 30 sec to 1 minute, but I have a feeling she wants to drag on the conversation longer and wants to talk to me, is this a sign that they peeking out of the FOG into the real world, I dont want to get my hopes up, but well what the heck.. <p>I want to be strong and hang in there, I have not told her about the plan B and have not written a letter yet, I personally think it is time to do that but just want to think it over for 2 weeks and do it.<p>Please let me have your comments, suggestions or any advise with experience I will take it all!<p>TheLion - The betrayed one!</strong><hr></blockquote><p>It looks like you are doing the right things Lion.<p>Keeping your conversations short and strictly related to the building of the house is good because you are showing her that you do not need her while she is having her affair. You are doing what a lot of BS's fail to do which is to stop beign clingy and instead of attracting their WS's back to them, they end up pushing them further into the arms of the OP's. So it's not surprising that your WW is calling you with the pretext of the house and wants to extend the conversations beyond the scope of the house. She is at the very least, curious as to what is happening in your life because it may mean that she may no longer have the option of returning to you and the marriage. But don't take this as a sign that her affair is over or winding down and she wants to come back to you and work on the marriage. For this to be the case, she herself will have to tell you that it's over and wants to return to you.<p>Continue by avoiding love busters and detaching emotionally. These two can help you slow down the withdrawl of love units her affair is taking from your love bank and keep you sane by not riding the emotional rollecoaster ride.<p>I would advise that you do not go into plan B unless you are prepared to divorce her at the end of it. Plan B should only be implemented when there is very little love left for her and your finger is itching to dial a divorce attorney.

Thanks TooMuchCoffeeMan:<p>I appreciate all your advise, but my problem is HOW LONG ?<p>I know it is not long enough, but for a person like me who makes decisions either way I need to decide, I cannot PROCAST - or not make a choice, thats not who I am and she is forcing me to make a decision which is wrong. I am in catch 22<p>I want to write plan B letter and to a certain point accept D as the last resort, but I need to take action, I cant just sit around because she knows that I will be there always so she does not have any emergency to make a decision she wants to enjoy BOTH, which unfortunately is unfair... Please advise!<p>By the way she is going to the counseling locally but the counselor says she is still confused and in the FOG cannot decide mode....<p>Help!!!
The Lion - The Betrayed one!

Hi Lion:<p>How long? well when is your new house going to be finished? and if your W decides that she is not going to move out of the new house, are you willing to move out?. If you want to go into plan B with no contact then you have to answer the above questions first.<p>In the meantime I would suggest you start taking care of yourself. Go out to the movies, go out dancing with friends, take a small vacation, buy yourself some brand new clothes, enroll in a gym, take a self improvement class, etc. Anything that will stop you from obsessing about your W and the M. But avoid at all costs from developing close frienships with other women because you are so vulnerable to falling into an affair of your own.

Hi TooMuchCoffeeMan:<p>D - Day 3/19/02
W moved out - 4/11/02
Withdrawl - 6 months
A - EA/PA (PA - short one night) - 2 years or more
OM - class mate in college...
OM - Overseas<p>W says its over the OM is not interested, however, W cannot let go still keeps e-mailing and calling OM...Obsessed to extreme.!<p>House will be complete 6/20/02 approx. I will be moving in alone in the NEW house.<p>I am doing all the things you have mentioned, but when I go to Bed or read, I am in tears all again, this is on my mind first thing when I wake up again tears roll down my cheeks... Its hard for me to control. I am trying to control while typing this post...<p>One more question, I have read half of the SAA I really like it, lots of similarity with the example of SUE and JON.. Do you think I should give her to read I know she will shrug it off but anyway if she has the book maybe someday she might read, what do you think ?<p>By the way I gave her the EN questionaire, but no answer yet it has been a week.. my bet is the OM has only met her CONVERSATION need thats all, I was good at it also, but may be fall short, and you cannot converse if your W is not honest and open with you.. Its hard!<p>Look forward to your advise coffeman!
thelion - The Betrayed One!

Lion:<p>It hurts me to see you in this pain - Oh how I know your pain. Unfortunately the pain you feel is because your love for your W is real and she is hurting you by giving her love to OM.<p>Unfortunately your W is very much in the 'fog' and nothing you say or do will really register in her radar. You could give her a copy of SAA and HNHN as a parting gift. Whether she reads them or not no one but God can say for sure just don't try to push her to read them.<p>I would suggest that you do not go into plan B as a result of your present emotional state. You still have a lot of love left for you W and your d-day is less than two months old. I would like to suggest that you go see a doctor about prescibing you some anti-depressants.<p>Are you in counseling right now?

Hello coffeman:<p>thanks for all your help. I cannot take this pain longer, I know I should be patient, but unfortunately I cannot see that it will work. My W is as I said extremely obsessed with this, even though the OM does not want anything she is pushing to the limit where I can take it anymore.<p>I am ready to accept the D and move on, though it is extremely difficult but I have to get the strength and courage to stand it.<p>I have been to a local counselor for last 6 weeks than stopped it is not helping at all, also I spoke to Steve, he says unless my W talks to him there is not a whole lot we can achieve, WHY do I have to be the one trying everything to save this M when actually I have not done anything wrong that is something my rational mind would not accept.<p>Honestly, I trusted and loved my W for last 7 years, she accept no one can love her the way I do and care for her, not even her parents, she acknowlege that but still obsessed with the A, I do not understand this and I never will....<p>Coffeman I really love this women from my heart and will do anything to make this work, but I will not force her to love me, I know I cannot do that she is the one who needs to get out of the FOG, if its late, thats her loss and mine too..<p>Please help me decide what I should do ? <p>TheLion

I'll repeat my advise that you seek out a doctor and have him/her prescribe you some anti-depressants. Your emotional state is dictating your actions and can make you do something that both of you might regret later on

OK TooMuchCoffeeMan:<p>I will try to do that. Though I feel fine, I am working, eating, doing the routine things, even sleeping 8 hours, playing games etc.. sports..<p>But this is not going to go away, do you think WW will come out of FOG ? I don't know and now one has that answer and that is what is driving my decision...<p>I will keep you updated...Lot of work, house is getting finished plumber, electrician painters.. and the whole nine yards keep me extremely busy.....<p>You take care!
theLion

Hi Lion,<p>Your decision needs to be made by you for you. Whether your W is in the fog or out is up to her. You can show here where you are at but it is up to her to walk out of the fog herself. <p>Does that info help?<p>L.

Hi Lion:<p>You have two choices. One is to call it quits and file for divorce and move on. The other choice is to try your best, via the MB concepts, to try to save your marriage. But you have to committ to one or the other, not be committed to one this day and then committed to the other the next day. So which is it going to be Lion? <p>If you chose to fight for your marriage, then you will have to detach emotionally from your WW while she is still in the A that has her in the 'fog'. This is where the anti-depressants can help you tremendously to cope with the ordeal of the A. They can help get you off the emotional rollercoaster ride while you concentrate on becoming a better person thru plan A - yes you can plan A even in her absence -and preserve what little love may be left for her in your love bank by going to plan B.<p>If you are absolutely, positively sure that you've had enough of her and no longer have any more love left to even want to try to save your marriage, then file for divorce now and move on. Otherwise I would suggest you try to save your marriage via the MB way and if - let's say a year from now - she is still in the same spot then you will have the knowledge that you tried your best but that she just doesn't want to be your W anymore.<p>Unfortunately you won't be able to committ to one or the other until you get a grip on your emotions. You yourself said that you are fine during the day but at night you are an emotional basket case. So go see your doctor for those anti-depressants, ok?

Dear Lion,
I've been in the same boat for about a year. EA started in May 2001 - she told me she loved OM in September but also told me she loved me and was coming home to me. She was in a neutral site away from both of us to "work out her feelings" she said. She came home end of september, stayed for a week then went to OM's. She was originally going for 3 weeks, but told me that she would go for 4 days only. She said she would return in four days and show me that I was the man she loved. She ended up staying for three weeks. She then returned home for a week, packed up her stuff, and drove off to stay at OM's. She called me a few times while at OM's telling me she loved me and begging me to go spend the holidays with her at her parents. Anyways this rollecoaster hell continued till April when she finally returned for good. OM followed her to our house and needed to talk. She told him that her life was with me now. One problem she is pregnant with OM's child! She is now in therapy heavy in the FOG with no contact with OM. I told her tonight that we will no longer have contact with each other until she is ready to be with me and wants to make our marriage work. Tonight she told me she loves OM and she did not have an affair because she told me she was in love with him before she ever slept with him. That was too much for me to hear and I went with Plan B. I have been very patient for a year now. I have had enough. It was very hard, very hard. It feels better to be able to talk to others who have experienced hells like these. Thanks everyone for your support.

Hi Orchid:<p>Thanks for the info, yes it does help.<p>TheLion

Hi TooMuchCoffeeMan & Orchid, and anyone who wants to respond...<p>I really appreciate your feedbacks, however, here is my problem.<p>My Rational mind is ready for D because
(1) I cannot see myself trusting my WW after so many betrayals, lies, deceit, torture, pain and still lieing...
(2) My 1st EN is HONESTY & OPENNESS, I am a very honest person and believed till date that my WW was the same, but the reality is different.
(3) Why should I torture myself for the rest of my life, when I have a choice to STOP LOSS and move on. ?<p>My emotions speak differently.
(1) I love my wife and was/and presently and in the future ready to meet all her EN's.
(2) If a miracle happens and she gets out of the FOG and ready to work on this M, there is a chance we can have a good M... though I myself doubt it.
(3) i am ready to work hard to save this M, I am a fighter and will take any challege that comes my way...
(4) I really, really loved this women with all sincereity, i gave her everything I had, monetary, physically, emotinally... you name it.<p>Here is the problem, I constantly battle between my rational mind and emotions, what shall I do, I am pretty much set on rational thinking...Will appreciate all the help I can get to disect this humongous analogy!!!!!<p>please help!
TheLion

What you are describing is what all of us have gone thru at one time in our lives.<p>When we were children our parents decided for us what was in our best interests. But now that we are adults we must rely on what our accumulated wisdom tells us what's right for us.<p>You say that you are much set on the rational side that tells you to end your marriage and you state all the reasons why it's wise to end your marriage and move on. But your emotional side says not to do it because you still have strong feelings for her. This tug of war tears you apart because you want resolution on way or another.<p>I would like for you to consider this thought for a moment Lion. Let's say you get divorce and move on with your life and you start healing and later on meet a woman for whom you develop strong feelings of love. Everything is going great when out of the blue your xW appears on the scene and she confesses to you how stupid she was in leaving you for another man and now realizes how much she loves you. If you still harbor strong feelings for her you will find yourself in the unenviable position of beign in love with two women and torn as to which you should let go. This situation is not something out of Hollywood, because there have been a few women posters that have had that exact situation happen to them. <p>My point in all of this is that you can not ignore your emotional side that tells you to wait for your WW to see if she wakes up from her fantasy and realizes how much you love her and want her. Sure it hurts like hell to continue to wait for her to come out of the fog, but it's better that the hurt runs it's course NOW - and your WW's love bank account gets closed out - than to have to deal with this later on in the future when you might find yourself involved with somebody else and might end up betraying the new woman in your life much like your present W has done to you.<p>So think well Lion.

Too much coffee your last bit of advice was really good for me as well. I am still very much in love with my wife and I too do not want to give up but when I think as The Lion said rationally it is very difficult for me to see my marriage every really working again. In addition to the rationalizations that The Lion made about his situation I have to add one more to mine. My W is pregnant with OM which makes my situation a little more complicated. But you are so right, I am still in love with my wife and I dread facing the possibility of her looking for me a year from now with a young baby in her arms totally forgiveful and ready to return to me and I have found someone else. I will be totally torn because I am going to want to take her into my arms and tell her that everything will be okay honey. I will take care of you and the baby. Don't worry.