Hi Lion,<p>I am glad to know that you are ok..... Not a good idea to jump into another relationship so quickly. Take care, there are a lot of OWs out there..... some very rough waters in the ocean of available women!!! LOL! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I respect your decision and wish you well on moving forward. <p>Now if you still want to know (I know TJS does - LOL!! ) , I was able to get the WS and OP to LB each other by planting visual doubts in both their minds. <p>U see the OP and WS share a lot of talk between them. Since they have no real relationship history, they depend on major gossip about the BS to strengthen the A. I heard the OW (in my case) remind the WS (H) how bad I was. I never even met the OW yet she was reminding him that he had evidently said some pretty ugly stuff about me (truth mixed in with some very exaggerated lies). <p>So I planted some of the info (not all) that I had dug up about the OW and her past then planted additional doubting questions. So that he began to doubt her integrity. See I did not hit on their 'love' for each other. I hit on other areas that were just as important in a real relationship. Integrity, loyalty and trust are vital to a good relationship but often very much missing in an A. <p>Oh boy, when the WS would ask the OP questions, she would catch on real quick that he was doubting her and the more she played the woe is me card, the more he doubted and the angrier she got. I only heard the after math but it was fun to hear about. <p>My 2nd techinique is the look. I would say less but look more. Make the WS wonder what I was thinking or up to. Made the OP worry also. <p>Third is that I changed my stance and showed a less caring attitude about their A. When the WS reported back to the OW (maybe works better with OWs) that I wasn't asking about them as much, she began to worry. <p>Another point is that I would let the WS wonder about us (BS and family) as much as possible. Good or bad stuff. As long as he was thinking about us, the less he was thinking about the OP. <p>Those are tried and tested suggestions. Take the good and throw out the bad. <p>take care,
L.
ps: Lion, have a safe and fun trip. I miss Zippy's!!! LOL! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi Orchid:<p>Thanks for your advise! I am going to wait until I sort out this mess, before even thinking about the new relationship, but you know what (what do we men do with our SF during this period) Its hard... It has been 6 months, and you can understand....<p>
I like your idea about the LB's between your WH and the OW, thanks for the insight...<p>also, orchid I am posting a new thread on GQ and EN, please read.<p>thelion

Hi Lion,<p>I am soooo jealous you are going to HI for vacation (in a good jealous way - LOL!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] )<p>Anyways, I will look for your post on GQII. I usually hop between GQII, JFO and plan a/b. Can't really do more than that at this time. <p>If you get a chance read JL's response today to Thejohnsmith thread. It is good. John is in plan B and his W is crying to come home. The point here is how JL is outlining John's steps. Might catch a point or 2. This JL guy is pretty good in my books. Haven't met him or anything but most of his posts (if not all) are worthwhile reading. <p>Take a look when you can. I will check out your thread later. <p>L.

Hello Everyone.<p>A little twist to my story and need help.<p>My parents are aware of the A, now they want to go and meet my WW and talk to her is this a good idea, they think she is just too afraid and have lot of fear to face them, they just want to console her and be there for her, not necessarily talk her into coming back... <p>What do you guys think ?
I think it is a good idea, wont hurt ? right ?<p>Will appreciate your feedback.<p>thelion

TL,<p>What have you got to lose?? You are planning on ending this anyway, right? It may help, and it surely cannot hurt.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

Lion that is so cool of your parents.
My wife called my dad in November 2001 about a month after she had moved out and boy did he rip into her. He was not aware of the OM but he did assume one existed. He has had many of his friends get betrayed so he is definetely from the no forgiveness school of thought. I know it probably doesn't matter but I thought at the time that he really had hurt my chances because he LB'd her completely that day. Your parents sound like very reasonable people. I doubt your wife would agree to a meeting though. She probably has major guilt inside and for them to still be loving to her is probably even harder for her to handle.

Hi tofu:<p>They are the NICEST people I know in this world, they are ready to forgive her and even help her morally and emotionally to come back and work on the M....<p>Will see what happens in about 4 hours from now, please keep praying for me...<p>Tofu, I know it is hard but hang in there, believe me I cry at least 3-4 times a day like a baby I dont know why I love her so much, but I do....<p>I keep praying that this should never happen to anyone, not even my worst enemies or any human being... You just cannot get over this....<p>thelion

All MBers<p>need to understand what this means.
My WW sent me this text message, no contact for last 10 days.<p>"But I do want to be true to myself first"<p>what does this mean she is trying to see thru the FOG.<p>Please help.
thelion

Hi Lion,<p>How good of your parents. I agree with JL (usually do - [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] )<p>Now as to her latest text message: <p>I would reply if you can - "please explain"<p>Those fogheads are real good at the say and run tactic. That leave very vulnerable BS' wondering, what they did wrong!!! <p>Now come back with a reverse play (I'm not real good at the football lingo - so work with me here, K? - LOL [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] )<p>When you say please explain you are asking them to produce something legible. Probably makes them mad. Don't try to understand those words. U are not meant to. It could also be a test. So for now let it go if you can and make her wonder if you got the message or even know what it means. Whether you know or not, pretend like you do. <p>At least that's my opinion. <p>L.

Lion ignore, ignore, ignore the message.
It means absolutely nothing. It is real hard to ignore but you must. For awhile I took every little word she said to heart and now I realize it meant nothing. Even the OM did the same. I went to his house to help her pack her stuff when I thought she was returning for good and OM took out some letters she had written to him and asked me to read them so I could see how much she loved him. My wife said the same thing to me about being true to herself, that OM allowed her to be who she really wanted to be, that she had to repress a lot of who she was when she was with me. What does that text message mean, it means nothing. It means she is still in the fog, feeling guilty, trying to justify the affair as something right. Expect nothing, depend only on God.

Hello Guys!<p>here is an update!<p>My parents visited my WW at her apt, they talked to her for 40-45 minutes, she sat very quiet, shocked and fearful, she answered only in small sentences, and said she will think about it.<p>after 4-5 hours at 10:00 PM I received the following text message ! again I dont know what it means, I have stopped replying. Please help me understand.<p>"I am too confused not sure if i did the rt thing not sure if i can live upto it sorry"<p>Is the FOG clearing up ?
please help!<p>thelion

TL,<p>It means "she is confused". Nothing more. If you feel the need to respond, it should be something short and sweet. "I hope your confusion clears." "I am sorry to hear that." or if you are feeling in a really down mood and want to be tacky then there is the ever popular "Whatever!"<p>Or you could respond "I am confused as well, what does this mean/"<p>Not sure any response is necessary in my opinion, but who knows.<p>Hang in there, one thing for sure you now know you have some really really good parents. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] You should be proud of them.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

Hi Just Learning:<p>Thanks for your advise. No reply seems to be the best choice, BTW received another text message, she said, she want to come to the new house on saturday and help me clean the windows.<p>what does that mean ? everything else the R should be put on HOLD but I should be allowed to mingle with the family... No way baby, you need to decide. right ? what you want ?<p>i have stopped answering her messages... Is that good. ?<p>Please help Guys and girls at MB<p>thelion

TL,<p>I am confused about your statement. She wants to come over and help you clean windows in new house.<p>Ok, I respond to a few?? people here, so I may be getting my wires crossed. So could you fill me in on this situation again. Are you moving to a new house ( I believe I remember that you are building one, am I right?) Where does the mingling with the family come in here? <p>Are you doing the cleaning so you can move into it? Are you planning to keep it, no matter what your W does?<p>My feeling is that unless you are in a strong plan B again don't recall. I am inclined to say let her, but if you are in plan B, then tell her not to bother to come over, although it is technically her house as well and you cannot stop her from coming over.<p>It seems to me your W is sort of realizing that she is losing you. SHe is not sure she cares, but she isn't sure she doesn't either.<p>So if you HAVE to have communications make it a plan A type, but it seems that you removing yourself from the situation is causing some neurons to fire somewhere. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Hang in there.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

Hi JL:<p>I am confused about your statement. She wants to come over and help you clean windows in new house.
(yes)!<p>Ok, I respond to a few?? people here, so I may be getting my wires crossed. So could you fill me in on this situation again. Are you moving to a new house ( I believe I remember that you are building one, am I right?) Where does the mingling with the family come in here? <p>(Yes the new house is complete, my parents are going to live with me for a while in the new house.)<p>Are you doing the cleaning so you can move into it? Are you planning to keep it, no matter what your W does?<p>(Yes cleaning to move in, I would like to keep the house with or without her.....)<p>
My feeling is that unless you are in a strong plan B again don't recall. I am inclined to say let her, but if you are in plan B, then tell her not to bother to come over, although it is technically her house as well and you cannot stop her from coming over.<p>(Yes I am in sort of plan B without a letter....
I think she has no business to come unless she decides on the M. either way!)<p>It seems to me your W is sort of realizing that she is losing you. SHe is not sure she cares, but she isn't sure she doesn't either.<p>(You are right looks like PANIC to me...)<p>So if you HAVE to have communications make it a plan A type, but it seems that you removing yourself from the situation is causing some neurons to fire somewhere. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>(Yes JL that seems to be the case!)<p>Thanks once again for all your help...
thelion<p>[ June 25, 2002: Message edited by: TheLion ]</p>

Hi all MBers, especially JOE, Orchid, JL...<p>need your help, please read and respond...<p>thelion

Hey Lion,
Yes, this is real tricky, clean the windows with her or not. I understand your dilemma. When my wife emailed about the OC's ultrasound, she sounded so happy on the email, and she said she wanted to talk to me so badly so she could share her joy with me. God, did I wish that it was my child so we could share the joy but I didn't call her. I know she got home and called OM first thing! She wanted to share her joy about OC with everyone she loves including me. Unfortunately, in her state of mind she doesn't realize how that can hurt me. Anyways back to the windows. I have had a real problem dealing with communication from WW during plan b. We want as BH to hear from her, "Honey, A is over, I want to rebuild," first before hearing about babies and windows. Unfortuantely, I don't know how to tread this path. May be a talk with the Harleys might help.
I was feeling like a good plan B letter might be in order where you clearly explain to her how painful it is for you to see her because you love her so much etc. . Then you can explain that for now it is best that you absolutely avoid each other at all costs even for the house until she is ready to rebuild. You can let her decide on the house.
Cleaning windows is really not a priority right now.

Hi tofu:<p>Cleaning windows is really not a priority right now<p>(You are so right ?)<p>priority is to set things up.
Tell me you want to work on the M. and than we will clean the windows, hows that...<p>I hear you man, hang in there...<p>thelion

Lion,<p>What's up?<p>L.

Hi Orchid:<p>just hanging in there, with loose ends, will fall anytime now.... No contact with WW since last 2 weeks, though she has been sending text messages please read earlier posts..... Fog too thick...<p>Also, I was wondering if I could bottle up my TEARS and send it to her, will that be a good idea ? Please let me know... I am tired and a cry baby, cannot do this long... I am losing it...<p>Regards,
thelion