I thought I posted yesterday but I can't find it. I had a little to much to drink at a party, so maybe I messed something up. Or my post was so bad it was deleted. If it was, I apologize.<p>So much happened last night but the bottom line is he wants out. Things have been going well except for the last few weeks were I have been feeling insecure and asking my H all the time if everything is ok. He said that it was been but I was not willing to take that for an answer and kept pushing, to the point he did not want to talk to me. I made him feel closed in. He was not doing the things I needed last week (like calling, etc.) which made me feel very insecure and hopeless. I was just trying to fix whatever was broken.<p>I have been crying my eyes out, I don't know why since this is about the 5th time he has done this to me. Everytime things get a little challenging, he throws in the towel. I am sick to my stomach, especailly thinking about the fact that he is going to her. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Why do I want this marriage so badly? Why can't I let is go? I have been hurt so badly for so long. The really sad part, I would take him back again [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] That makes me so mad. Why can't I be strong?<p>It's so not fair but then again, life is not fair.
I am here alone with my two kids on a holiday weekend and I feel so lonely. <p>Please someone help me.

Hi,<p>I know what you are going through. My kids are with their dad until tomorrow afternoon and my current H and I are separated. I'm sure my H spent time with OW Friday night after he spent most of the day here with me. We had a great day, walked in the park, held hands and made love. Only to find he was with her just an hour after leaving. I'm delusional to think we may some day reconcile. Like you, my H has repeatedly hurt me with lies and betrayels for the last 2+ years (we've only been married 2 1/2 years).<p>I know the pain you feel. I love my H nad it's so hard pretending I'm not lost without him. Tomorrow will be 3 weeks since we separated and it's just now gotten painful. I really love him, but what keeps me from taking him back is remembering that he's hurt me more over the past 2 year than he has protecting our marriage. He disrespected me and our family.<p>This could be what's best for you. Try to regain control over your life and do what's necessary to reclaim yourself, your self-respect.<p>This is very hard for me and it was scary in the beginning, but I need to keep focus on WHY we're separated - he was unfaithful and continues to be.<p>We can find strength in ourselves - keep posting and sharing here.<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Free,<p>Thanks. I have read some of you posts and I know you are for the most part where I am at. <p>Even though my H left me, can I still do a plan B? Not sure if I have the strength not to see or talk to him. I did it once for a week and he came back. Having difficult time getting it out of my head that we can recover. He thinks that it's too far gone and I think we have not tried hard enough. Then like you, I think of all the hurt and pain he has caused me and all the self respect I have lost, then I think this is for the best. I know deep down there is a life out there, either by myself or with someone else that will be MUCH better. Why even bother going to Plan B, is there any reason, any hope? Why can't my H be like the others who want to try and give it there all? Why is he so weak to give in when the going gets tough? <p>Then I break down crying over the loss of the family I know. I will now have to share my kids, our children will never have their parents together. This kills me. My daughter has her first dance show on June 23, our anniversary. Now we will be going as a seperated couple. His parents were supposed to come but I don't want to look at them in the face, since they encourage him to "BE HAPPY". Not work on your marriage and be happy there.<p>I think you wrote somethig about the "comfortable old shoe." I agree with that. I want my old shoe. On one had I don't want to have to date again, then on the other I do. It would be exciting.<p>I have done a few crazy things and I am afraid that my H will hold that against me and I will loose me kids all togehter. I called her place 3 times on Sat night and went there a couple weeks ago when he was there. I don't know what he will do to try and take these kids from me. I am so very scared and sad [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Why can't I let him go? Why do I think we still belong together? I love him but what is love? Do I really love him or am I just stupid?<p>I really hate being in this situation. I know I am not alone and that helps. I just wish with every fiber of my being I could erase all the mistakes of the past and start over. [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img]

Yes, you and I are in the same place. I know my relationship with my H is unhealthy and close t toxic (always has been), but yet I want to be with him. <p>I don't want to do the dating thing. In the past week or so I have flirted around with men at work and was even propositioned - it felt good to be desired, but in the end I hated it all and I'm angry that my H has put me in this position. I am trying to be someone I'm not. I'm trying to be bubbly and friendly and that's not what I'm feeling. I feel sad and lost, not like I want to party every night and celebrate.<p>Do you have an instant messanger? I have yahoo and MSN and we could chat and support each other in real time. I have a good firned (whom I met here at MB) but she is in recovery with her H and changes the subject when I tell her how I feel (lonely and unmotivated). Why do I just want to commiserate? Ugh!<p>Good luck to you!

Free,<p>Flirting, huh. I am so bad at it it's pathetic. It feels awkward and I feel sleezy. Never have been good at it, even in college. I have a few male friends, one is 20 years older than I and the other is 30 years older than me (he does flirt with me, and I just blush). They have both been great support and have helped. The one guy, his first marriage ended becasue his wife cheated, so he knows where I am coming from. They both help me boost my ego by telling me that I am beautiful, am a wonderful person and deserve better. But it does not help. I don't feel pretty, I don't feel sexy. I just feel lost and hurt. I want to cry everytime I see a happy couple. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Instant Messenger Have heard of it, know what it is but how do I get it? I have an e-mail account with MSN and Yahoo. I would love to commiserate. I feel so bad talking and crying to my friends all the time. I have pushed one away already and I am so afraid I will do that to the others. I have expressed this to them and they said "Don't worry about that, we are your friends and we want to help you." But I feel bad none the less.<p>I was seeing a therapist but stoped because I did not feel like he was helping. Was trying to find one that practiced MB but could not. Did locate one on a referral that I thought would be good for us, maybe I will use him for me. He takes our insurance.<p>Do you have kids? I have two and that really adds to my sadness. I really hate the thought of not putting them in bed every night and getting up with them every morning. My son gives the best monkey hugs in the world. He raps those fat little hand around my neck and his legs around my waist and squeezes. If feels so nice to be loved so much. I don't want to loose that. My daughter says "I love you to the moon and stars and back." They really love me, more than their father, I think. And why not, he was never around. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Sorry to keep rambleing.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by need2bhappy:
<strong>Free,<p>......<p>Even though my H left me, can I still do a plan B? Not sure if I have the strength not to see or talk to him. I did it once for a week and he came back. [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img] </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Hi n2bh,<p>The answer to your question about plan B is yes. You can do it anytime. It is easier when they are out of home. <p>I have a few questions: <p>1. What needs of his are you aware that you are presently meeting? <p>2. Which needs of his ARE you presently meeting? This is a different question. One to make you step back and reevaluate what is happening. <p>3. What do you think plan A vs plan B will do for U? That is what those plans are really about. <p>Here is a partial quote from the concepts section about plan A and B. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by maximus:
<strong><<
I haven't felt like a doormat really, but I've been there for her whenever she's needed me since she moved out. Its hard to swallow because I've needed and wanted her, and she hasn't been there for me. Catch 22 I guess. <p>
Maybe "depression" is not the right word, but she is definately affected by this ordeal. She has been daydreaming alot lately, and been more emotional than normal. The other day, she was throwing toys, and I told her to stop or she'd go to timeout. She then replied that If I put her in timeout, she'd go to her mommy's house and never come back here. Very concerning to say the least.
I was crushed to hear those words come out of her mouth.
Anyways, thanks for the replies, and I sincerely hope your situation is improving for you as well.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
What is the purpose of plan A taken from the basic concepts section):<p> plan A, an effort to end the affair with thoughtfulness and care, doesn't always work. In many cases a wayward spouse is so trapped by the addiction that he or she does not have the will-power to do the right thing. Once in a while the fog lifts and the cruelty and tragedy of the affair hits the betrayed spouse right between the eyes. In a moment of grief and guilt, he or she promises to end it. But then the pain of withdrawal symptoms often brings back the fog with all its excuses and rationalization, and the affair is on again. <p>Sometimes a wayward spouse settles into a routine of having his or her cake and eating it too. In an effort to win the wayward spouse back, the betrayed spouse meets emotional needs that the lover cannot meet, while the lover meets emotional needs that the wayward spouse has not learned to meet. {b]While this competition is excruciatingly painful to the betrayed spouse, and the lover as well, the wayward spouse basks in the warmth of being loved and cared for by two people, with no real motivation to choose one over the other.{/b] <p>
plan B also taken from the basic concepts section):
to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover, if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B. <p>Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery. In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B. <p>
Please let me know your thoughts. Amount of time in each plan is not fixed. Nor recommended. There are too many variables in each situation. This is not a 1 remedy method. You need to take the general principals and adapt them to your situation. There are some general things that happen and there have been 'average' times that the A lasts, how long many have been in plan A, etc. But each situation will vary. <p>When children are involved, plan B generally needs to be altered to accomodate the children's needs. In my case, I limited it to child/mail and money. <p>L.

Orchid,<p>Thanks for the post (I know it was for n2bh), it really brought the purpose of Plan B into focus.<p>n2bh,<p>I have 2 boys (7&9) from a previous marriage. They are hell on wheels - Thing 1 and Thing 2 I call them (in my head).<p>You can download instant messangers from the MSN and yahoo sites and then we can exchange screen names.<p>I understand about chasing friends away with all the misery talk. I try to remain positive and not share my loneliness with anyone. They think I'm strong and unaffected. I'm sure this can't be good either. I really haven't broken down and cried yet. It's there caught in my throat, but I refrain and not sure why.<p>I don't think we will reconcile ever. My H isn't just caught up with one woman. My His addicted to the new love feeling so he goes from one EA to the next and if it turns PA then that's just a bonus. He thrives on affection from more than one woman.<p>I too don't like to flirt and I get nervous and scared when men show me too much atention or affection.<p>You are a good mom and wife, but above all you are a good woman. You have fought for your marriage and your H and there's nothing wrong with that. Don't feel bad for giving it your all, even if right now it looks bleak.<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Orchid,<p>Thanks for the post. <p>Not sure what the difference between question 1 &2 are. Is one question supposed to say not meeting?<p>My H never filled out the EN questionnaire. But I know his #1 EN is SF and I have been meeting that need at least 4 times a week, sometimes as little as 2x's and I am always willing to satisfy him the way he wants. So, I think I have done more than a good job on this one. <p>Not sure what other EN's he may have. I am guessing that admiration may be one. And I think I do that but maybe not to his satisfaction. I am sure the 26 yr old is doing a better job here than I am. I also think an attractive spouse is improtant to him. I finally lost all the weight I gained from my second pregnency and an additional 20 pounds. I now weigh less than I did in college. He was extreemly pleased with the way I look. He said that I am very sexy looking now. I still have some firming up to do, though. Domestice support is also important in a way. Not so much support as in doing it together but just me getting it done (house cleaning, etc). I have improved on that and he noticed.<p>As for my EN's, he fails to meet almost everyone, both in the past and now. <p>Plan A has not helped my H end the affair. He stoped contact for awhile (so he says) and then started again. I guess Plan A has not given me what I needed, NO CONTACT. During Plan A there were many positives but they were always over shadowed by contact with her, my inablilty to trust everything and his inability to give me what I needed in order for me to trust.<p>Plan B may give me the opportunity to see that things on my own are not so bad and I will be able to go into this divorce much more level headed. It may also be what he needs to see how much he needs me and truly loves our relationship and me. I think he does, although last night on the phone he said that he would never come back.<p>My H said that my irrational actions on Saturday night are to much for him to deal with. He said that he does not have any feelings left for me. We have been on this roller coaster since July. I am wondering if the hand writing is on the wall and I just don't want to see. Or is it him that can see it due to the fog?<p>Thanks for your help and I look forward to your response.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>My H said that my irrational actions on Saturday night are to much for him to deal with. He said that he does not have any feelings left for me. We have been on this roller coaster since July. I am wondering if the hand writing is on the wall and I just don't want to see. Or is it him that can see it due to the fog?<hr></blockquote><p>Try to use this time to recover from the events of Saturday night. If you are a Christian, spend some quiet time in prayer or reading some devotionals. I need to get back to my daily prayer, it's when I don't take some quiet time that I find myself acting out in negative ways.<p>The no contact can be effective. It was a hard weekend, but I made it through without making contact and I survived. That's enough to keep me going. Of course, he stopped by last night and it was tense, but brief. This morning he called to say that not being in contact with me was hell for him. It was nice to hear, but I feel it's just a part of his game to see if I crumble and give in.<p>My H's top EN's are SF and affection/admiration. I met those plus some when we were together - it just wasn't enough. I would ensure his SF need was met most nights and I did all sorts of things to boost his ego. Our Pastor said he has a bottomless bucket and I will NEVER be able to fill it up.<p>Take time to BREATHE, RELAX, RECOVER, REFOCUS AND REGENERATE! Something I learned in al-anon is It works if you work it, so work it, you're worth it! You are worth it, but work your plan so it can work for you.<p>Have a great day!<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

need2bhappy<p>My heart and prayers go out to you and your family.<p>Orchid and Free2beme have basically covered all the bases with you, but I just wanted to add something with regard to your male friends. <p>Please do not continue to discuss any marital problems with these men because that is one way that EA's are born. <p>You are extremely vulnerable to an A yourself at this point in time and if a man comes along that you find attractive and he starts making you feel special then his love deposits in your love bank could reach the point where you will fall in love with him, and then things will get extremely complicated for everybody involved. <p>Instead rely on other women - in situations similar to yours - to discuss your marital problems because it's very unlikely that you are going to fall in love [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] with Orchid or Free2beme [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Joe<p>P.S. Thanks for giving your support to TheLion.<p>[ May 28, 2002: Message edited by: TooMuchCoffeeMan ]</p>

Too Much Coffee,<p>Thanks for the advice. I understand what you are saying. I can't imagine ever falling in love with either one of them. Both are married and I just would not do that. Two, neither of them meet my need for an attractive spouse. Three, one of them has many problems of his own that I would not want to become involved with on that level. Don't get me wrong, I totally understand what you are saying and I agree. I realize that it may just happen like it did with my H, even if I was not planning on it. But thanks.

n2bh,<p>I almost took the path that coffeeman is talking about. I went so far as to kiss another man a few weeks ago. I quickly came to my senses! It was so easy to fall into the trap with my being so vulnerable. I wasn't really attracted to him, but he's so nice and the emails built us up sexually. We didn't go further than the kiss (he would like to), but I wanted to share with you how easy it is when we're so vulnerable. Just to have my face touched again felt so good. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>How are you doing these days? What are you doing to take care of yourself?<p>Stay in touch and vent away if you have to.<p>God bless!

Free,<p>Thanks for asking. Not doing much for me these days. Have not done much for me since this whole thing began. I did make a call to my attorney and will most likely make an appointment for Friday (her first available). I really don't want to. I am still hoping things will change. I know I am crazy. It's too far gone but I just don't want to give up. I also think I should file papers and that might make him come to his senses. Again, still hoping that something will shake him back to reality. My close friends say to let him go, he is no good for me. I know it in my head but my heart keeps calling me back. <p>How have you been doing? What do you do for yourself?
I hate what he has done to me.

Glad you popped in for an update.<p>If you are only filing paperwork in hopes to jolt him, please hold off. I don't think you will get the response you are expecting. That is where I always let myself down, I have expectations of my H that he is incapable of meeting since he's in a fog.<p>Is he out of the house now? Are you officially separated (even without the paperwork)?<p>Take time to sit back and not worry about what your H is doing. This is hard for me too, so I know what you're going through. I was all set today to find an attorney, but a Christian group I belong to on the internet really showed me that I can't expect things to change over night and that recovery can be possible in God's time.<p>I've asked my H for no contact. I didn't specify a plan other than that, but I need the no contact so I can heal MYSELF. I'm not going to push for a divorce - I will pray, heal and focus on me and my kids. In a few months he may either come to me with healing progress underway or he'll come to me in the same fog.<p>Don't do anything right now. Move on without him, but take the time for you - even if it's just a bubble bath with soft music playing.<p>I have moped around for the long weekend, but I can feel a bit of energy returning. I can't allow this to consume me as it did for the past 2 years!<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Free,<p>Thanks. Yes he is out of the house and we are separated.<p>I have an attorney from the last time he did this. I do have an appointment with her on Friday and plan on giving her the retainer. I am doing it for several reasons. 1. I need to know that my children are protected and that he can't do anything crazy, like take them from me. That is the most important, they are only 2 & 3. He took them last night to see his parents in Pa., they will return tonight. It scared me a little that he might leave them there. He also has a tendency to do his thing and leave the kids with me all the time. This way I would be able to have some needed time for my-self. 2. Money. I am afraid that he will drain our accounts and I need something to stop him from that. 3. He has already indicated that he wants to sale the house immediately. I have 3 years use and possess under State law. When I mentioned that he hit the roof. 4. It helps me feel strong. If this is going to happen like I think it is, I need to show him the stronger side of me. 5. When he sees me strong, he changes his tune. Although, I truly don't think that will happen this time. If it does, it won't be for several months.<p>When he came to pick up the kids last night, I told him to go ahead and get the car seats out of the van. He said "I went out and bought two so I don't need them." That hit me like a ton of bricks. It went right threw my stomach and made everything seem so final.<p>So, I do hear what you are saying but I think it's a road that I must take. I need to look out for me and my children. And I really need to wise up and see the light. He is not good for me, he does not want this marriage and won't come out of the fog. He can have his 26 yr old twit. I will be better, happier, more content later on down the road, it just hurts like HELL right now.

Hi,<p>Yes, I think you need to protect you and the kids. You sound strong and I know it's out of necessity rather than what you really feel.<p>I can only imagine how it felt when he said he had car seats, but like you said, he's not good for you. Once you get through this you will be free to seek a man who will treat you right.<p>Me, I'm giving up romantic relationships for a year (did I write that in a previous post already). For me, men have always been my ticket to happiness and there's no reason why I can't find happiness from within.<p>God bless!<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Free,<p>I just signed up for IM from Yahoo. Can you use that?<p>Funny, you want to give up romantic relationships for a year, which I think is good. Yet, all I can think about is finding someone else to go out with, maybe not being romantic or fully involved. However, I think I just want it to make my H jealous and really not for me. Sad, huh? I guess I just want him to feel what I feel.<p>I am so pathetic, when my H was loading up the car last night, I noticed out of the corner of my eye him looking at me. I asked him what and he said nothing. My hair was looking pretty bad (at least I think) so I don't know if he was looking at me and thinking "Yuck". Or what I hope and think was going on in his mind was "Wow" or something like that. He has given me those looks before when we are out, he never tells me in front of people but later he always tells me that he was just looking at me and noticing how beautiful I am. Why am I doing this to myself?

Hi, <p>I just got in and read your other thread. I hope this is the right one to answer, if not please direct me. <p>Here are those questions again:<p>1. What needs of his are you aware that you are presently meeting? <p>2. Which needs of his ARE you presently meeting? This is a different question. One to make you step back and reevaluate what is happening. <p>3. What do you think plan A vs plan B will do for U? That is what those plans are really about. <p>
The difference between questions 1 & 2 are what you are aware of vs what you are actually doing. Big difference. I have read your subsequent posts and you need to realize that just because he is doing some things on his own does not make him enemy #1 (such as buying car seats). Be careful not to twist more than is already twisted. This is where you could to a real LB. <p>Don't make life changing decisions in an emotional state. Pray for a clear mind and a calm heart, then look at things as they really stand. Write them down if that helps. Pros and cons then read it. Be as factual and actual as possible. <p>Step back from this and breathe. You have been dealing with this for a while but reality of this whole thing is still in the changing mode. <p>After you have done this think about which plan is better for U? <p>Let me know if I can help more. <p>L.

I had that rush to find a new man about a month ago and all I found was trouble. Like I said before, I opened some doors that now refuse to close. Te whole idea was to make myself feel better, to feel desired and wanted and all it did was leave me feeling desperate and disrespectful to myself.<p>I always use the word pitiful to describe myself so I chuckled when you said pathetic. Don't take that wrng - I was just recognizing a similarity in us.<p>I'm really trying to focus on thepositive aspects in my life and not get so down. The emotions run high and low then high and low and it seems so constant. I made a silent pact to myself that I won't make any decisions without (at some point) talking with my H and having some sort of plan. I keep thinking he should know what needsto be done to recover - I've tried to drill it into his head for 2 years now, but I don't think he truly knows how to start recovery. He has so many issues his head must be spinning.<p>Orchid threw out some great questions - take time to really think about them and I'm going to do the same. I'll try to come up with something for tomorrow.<p>Have a great night!

Orchid and Free,<p>I will respond to you guys a little later but I need your help with something else!<p>My H dropped the kids off last night. I was very stong, upbeat, friendly and positive. I was actually in a very good mood. He asked if I needed help getting the kids ready for bed and I told him that I could handle it. I did not walk him to the door (I was busy changing diapers) but said good-bye and told him to have a good night.<p>Anyway, today at work I get this
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> <hr></blockquote>Hi, I know I didn't get get a chance to talk to you much last night, I was
exhausted. Thanks for taking care of the kids. How have you been? You
seemed OK, but I was wondering just the same. I know its only been a few
days, although it seems like a lot longer. Just wanted to asy Hi.<p>You can respond back if you want.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> <hr></blockquote><p>What do you guys make of it? How should I respond?<p>When I saw the e-mail in my box, I got that burning sensation in my chest. It scared me, I did not know what to expect. I was also hurt because I felt like he knows just when to get to me. <p>ADVICE please
Thanks!!