Fellow MB friends,<p>I don't know what to think about my H. Has he had a change of heart? Or is this just some more of the fog? Is H in the fog or coming out of the fog? On Sunday he said that he was going to leave our home in 2 weeks. But on Wednesday he said that he would never leave. I really LB'ed on Saturday, after a few to many drinks. <p>Now H is acting distant again and will not hardly talk to me. H said that he can never love me. H also said that we shouldn't have ever been married. He also said that he will never come first in my life, my family (meaning my Parents/Siblings) will always be first. Is that the fog? H said that he is only staying for the childrens sake and not to expect to much from him right now. He also said to just leave him alone. I am trying to Plan A but I am wondering if what I did on Saturday made us start at ground 0 again?<p>I am at a loss, I don't know what to do. I know about working on myself and I am trying. But my H is making me nuts......... The pager issue is the worse. He won't ever let me see it. H even puts a alarm on it at night. Should I break it?
H also makes up excuses to leave the house and comes back 1/2 hour to 1 hour later. Shouldn't I ask what took him so long? And don't I have a right to know what time H is getting out of work? According to Plan A, I shouldn't ask any questions. But it is driving me crazy..... <p>Lost

Dear lost, <p>It is late and my H was sent out on an emergency delivery so I sit here wide awake. LOL!!! <p>Here's my take. Your H want to eat cake. Not just from you but from the A also. He is saying those cruel words basically to make you mad. Are you going to let him? My H did the same last Feb. Then took OW to Yosemite, told me the same stories about how he never loved me, should have never married,etc and ow was replanting those thoughts every chance she got. In April 2001, he asked to come home, I got preg and miscarried, OW tried to claim prego also (but never proved it), Ws went to jail for a few days, Ws lived with OW for a few days, begged to come home (in August 2001), OW claimed prego #3 (that's how she got the name rabbit (PBR - psyco babble rabbit) and kept up with the mostly EA then some PA. I told him I needed OW out of my life and if that meant losing him fine! I meant it. I was too tired of dealing with him and his so called made up stories about his need to find himself. I showed him the mirror and said if he ever felt lost he would find himself by looking in the MIRROR!!! <p>Now H is back. OW is pretty much out of the pix (or so I am told - see I am still the skeptic). H even says he does not miss OW. H & I even met with another couple whose BS posts here on MB and he mentioned MB and said this is where I come for my support. Even stood up for rebuilding the M. <p>So for now, let him go in his babble. You work on strenghtening yourself. That will take a lot of your time and energy. <p>L.

Just a message to say that i'm going through the same thing with my H. Yesterday, i called him to asked if i could visit him this weekend...he got totally agitated and said to meet me the coming week because he gotta work (i dun see his work hampering us from meeting up last time!?)<p>I totally broke down because this Sunday is our wedding annivasary and he don't seem to care. And i keep wondering if he is stopping me from going over to his place bcoz he is having OW over.<p>My H also keeps a code on his handphone so i couldn't see who message him or whose number is inside unless i key in the code.
I try not to let it bother me alot because he still deserve some privacy. He is still in fog, and while he is still in it,it will not cross his mind to let me see it.
Don't considering breaking the alarm, i tried before and it isn't pleasant when he found out.It's a big LB!
Are you certain you will find anything in his pager? What good will it do if you did?
I too feel the same...having a crazy need to know where did he go, if he spend the time with OW.
I try not to let the need control me.Instead i will try to talk to my friends to take my mind off it. <p>I'm with you,be strong...we can make it!

Lost,<p>Your H is delusional - forget the fog. I say that in jest, but as with the others, my H seemed to be angry with me a lot and picking fights. Looking back, I now see that that was his way to justify what he was doing. He told these OW that he felt trapped in our marriage and he created these situations where we would fight so that HE believed it himself. For the most part I thought we had a great marriage, with some conflict, and he's telling these women that we're separated.<p>It's him in a fog and although it's hard, you really won't get anywhere trying to get through to him while he's in the state.<p>Keep the faith!<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Orchid,<p>He is saying those cruel words basically to make you mad. Are you going to let him? <p>No, I am trying not <p>This morning her # was in the pager. I was again hurt all over again. H said he didn't know why? I told him he has to tell her to stop. H said he would. I am going to ask him if he did. If not then I am going to call her and hand him the phone. Let's see what he does at that point. <p>Orchid, I am tired. It is going on 3 months since d-day and H said that they stopped the A in Dec 01. But I caught H there in April 02. (I don't know what to believe). I don't know if 3 months to not long enough to expect anything out of H but according to H it should be going on 6 months.<p>Should I make him tell her or should I just leave it alone??? That PBR was a real pill...... I would have used a much better word then babble I would have used bit*h..........<p>So your H moved out 1 month after d-day, returned 3 months later, moved back out 3 months later then returned again 1 month later. But continued contact with the ow for another 8 months.... Oh Orchid I don't know if I can handle all that drama......... How long was the actual A? My H has known the ow for 5 years..... And I just found out 3 months ago. I don't know how long it was EA but H said it turned PA in Nov 02. It has only been 3 months and I am at the end of my rope. How long will it take???? Is it a good sign that my H hasn't move out yet???? <p>So for now, let him go in his babble. You work on strenghtening yourself. That will take a lot of your time and energy.<p>Orchid, should I just continue with Plan A??<p>Lost

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by lost:
<strong>
He is saying those cruel words basically to make you mad. Are you going to let him? <p>No, I am trying not </strong><p>Good!!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>
<strong>This morning her # was in the pager. I was again hurt all over again. H said he didn't know why? I told him he has to tell her to stop. H said he would. I am going to ask him if he did. If not then I am going to call her and hand him the phone. Let's see what he does at that point. </strong> <p>If this kind of info makes you hurt, let him know and ask if he can change his pager. Mine had to lose his for the pager to be a done issue, now I am working on his cell phone. It is tied to one of his jobs so it is not as easy to change. <p>If he is home, this should be a requirement to show family value. IMHO, that is. <p><strong>Orchid, I am tired. It is going on 3 months since d-day and H said that they stopped the A in Dec 01. But I caught H there in April 02. (I don't know what to believe). I don't know if 3 months to not long enough to expect anything out of H but according to H it should be going on 6 months.</strong><p>I understand that you are tired. 3 months is actually quite short. The next 3 months will not be as drawn out. Each succession of 3 month intervals will be shorter. You will have learned to how to deal with it better. Not enabling the A mind you but the novelity of the pain will wear off. H should NOT be setting time limits. If your time limit is up before his, then most likel you will be ready for plan B at that time. <p>
<strong>Should I make him tell her or should I just leave it alone??? That PBR was a real pill...... I would have used a much better word then babble I would have used bit*h..........</strong><p>Leave it alone. He will not stop if you 'tell' him to. As regards PBR, the other B word came up. She got that description as her 'other' name when I would get upset. I don't usually use that kind of speech, but I told H that she actually fits the true definition!!! LOL! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>
<strong>Oh Orchid I don't know if I can handle all that drama......... </strong> <p>You can and you will. You will be surprise at how much you can handle. My H thought I'd throw him out on his hinney ASAP. Me too!!! Go figure, you've seen my timeline. That was not ASAP! Now it will be. I just had to go through it and know that I did my best. I know that now. If there is a 'next time', his head will be spinning and the rest of his body may be off in another direction!!! LOL! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p><strong>How long was the actual A?</strong><p>Aug 00 - April 02. EA/PA. PA started around Oct 00 - Feb 02. <p><strong>My H has known the ow for 5 years..... And I just found out 3 months ago. I don't know how long it was EA but H said it turned PA in Nov 02. It has only been 3 months and I am at the end of my rope. How long will it take???? Is it a good sign that my H hasn't move out yet???? </strong><p>
Time will tell. Each situation is different. We are dealing with people here and not necessarily logical or sane at the moment so it is hard to predict. Yes, it is a good sign he has not moved out yet, but his reasons would be a better indicator. Sometimes, they WS & OP plan for the right moment. I believe it is in the family's interst for the BS to know those plans and foil them. In my case, OW was planning her d and his d, move him out with her (at her convenience) then plan an Aug 2001 wedding. Even wanted him to move out with her in April, then when they fought her next plan was for him to wait until July and marry in August. When I found that out, I told him, nope you need to leave now. He said where will I go? I said, don't know but not here!! That scenario ran a few times, I got real good at packing his stuff. NO more debates about how long it would take to get him out of the house. It finally came down to the fact, that my personal boundary required NO OW IN MY LIFE. Simple as that. Including H out of the house if he associated with her in any way. What my timeline does not detail are all those 1 - 3 day timeframes where he went to live on the street. <p><strong>So for now, let him go in his babble. You work on strenghtening yourself. That will take a lot of your time and energy. </strong><p>I think this is my quote. I still endorse it. <p><strong>Orchid, should I just continue with Plan A??
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Yes I think you should continue plan A until you are done bettering yourself. Then there will be a short time of settling, identifying your boundaries and then if he is still in la la land, you may need to consider plan B. At that point, you will be a stronger person. <p>Take Care,
L.

Confuse n Lost,<p>What a wonderful world. I would have never expected my H to do this to me. And you know what my H said. H said that I should have known. I replied how could I when I asked you, you always lied. Weirdo........ H and ow must be living in la la land. It is not the REAL WORLD.<p>When did your H leave? Don't push yourself on him. After d-day I was very clingy, but now I am not. H use to even push my hands away from him, but that is quite normal. I know it really hurts but you can handle it. I know you cry so do I, but try not to let your H see you break down. <p>Your anniversary, it will be o.k.. There will always be a next year. The same thing happened to me but my anniversary was in Feb. And I didn't even get a card. But I still didn't know about the A. What killed me is when I spoke to the ow she told me that my H was going to get her a present on our anniversary. I asked her what did he get her and she said he ended up not getting her anything. The ow even spent H birthday with him last year. H told me he was going to go out with his friends to have a few beers. Of course us as a family had the cake & presents then H went out later that evening. <p>Confuse n Lost, everything will be o.k.. H does not deserve any privacy. My H says that to. But just let him think like he has privacy. There will be a opportunity when you will be able to see what you need to see or find out. I did yesterday. (ow # in pager) Yes, your H is in the fog so is mine. It is still to early in the game for you and I. <p>I will be strong, well try to at least. You and I will make it.......<p>Lost
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Together 18 years, Married 10
d-day 03-12-02, d-day2 04-17-02, d-day3 04-28-02
2 boys (9 & 7), 1 girl (3)
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Free2BMe,<p>Unfortunately yes, my H is delusional. Yesterday after the pager incident we ended up being intimate. H said about 10 minutes after that we can't do that anymore because it doesn't feel right. Yah right..... He was totally enjoying himself...... I said o.k. if that's the way you feel I respect that and I will respect your wishes. H was in shock........ after I said that.<p>I know that he is trying to justify his actions, but that is o.k.. I told him that I understood what he was going thru and that it was o.k.. That if he ever needed me to help him that I will be there for him. That TOTALLY BLEW HIS MIND. H just looked at me in amazement. I will kill that A with kindness..... Even though it may just kill me. When he left for work yesterday he was going to kiss my forehead and I moved my face and kissed his lips. He just looked at me and smiled. You see "Kindness". I am learning that with kindness and understanding you gain. With bitterness and hostile actions you get withdrawal. (I know, I did that plenty of times).<p>Hopefully the insane state of his being will pass. My H also told the ow that he would have left me along time ago but my Father passed away and I was a emotional wreck and he couldn't put me thru that right now. What a crock of Shi*. My Father will be gone 1 year on the 13 of this month. And HELLO, he still hasn't left. I told the ow I wonder why he hasn't left me yet?????
I told her that if my H truly didn't care about me he would have left me....... I told ow to think about that. <p>I will keep the faith!<p>Thank You,<p>Lost

Orchid,<p>First of all I would like to know how do you make a quote BOLD??? I know how to copy and paste but I don't know how to bold the text.<p>I did tell H to change his pager number and also to tell the ow to stop. But to no avail H hasn't done either. I am not going to ask anymore. I will tell H that it hurts me when the ow beeps him. IMHO???? I don't have my abb. handy.<p>Orchid, that you for letting me know about the time frame. Yes, ever A is different but I think they have alot in common when it comes to time frame. I hope the next 3 months will be better. I am learning day by day. Today H called me from work and asked if he could go see the fight. H also said since I have to ask you for permission. I said that was fine all I ask of you is to tell me the truth. He then said YAH O.K.. Then he said he had to get back to work. I said o.k. see you later. Bye
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Leave it alone. He will not stop if you 'tell' him to. I don't usually use that kind of speech.
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I am not going to ask anymore. <p>Oh that word was very mild compared to what I called the ow when I found out. I never even knew that I could say what came out of my mouth.
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You can and you will.
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Learning........ And trying to stay sane.
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Yes, it is a good sign he has not moved out yet, but his reasons would be a better indicator.
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I don't think he even knows what the heck he wants, but that is o.k.. I will just Plan A untill he can give me logical answers to all the questions I have. Time will certainly tell. I wish I knew the plans, when it is time for me to find out the truth I know I will. How did you find out all the info???? Did you call the ow? I want to call the ow but I don't want her to think that I am desperate.
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So for now, let him go in his babble. You work on strenghtening yourself. That will take a lot of your time and energy.
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Yes that is your quote. EXCELLENT.<p>Plan A for sure. I think I will know when it is time for Plan B too. My Love Bank it almost at the negative level. NOT GOOD.<p>Thank You,<p>Lost

Lost, <p>Well the bold and italic stuff goes is when you preface the area to start with: '['qb']'
end with: '['/'qb']' remove those tick marks. <p>q = quote
b = bold
i = italic<p><strong>"I don't think he even knows what the heck he wants, but that is o.k.. I will just Plan A untill he can give me logical answers to all the questions I have. Time will certainly tell. I wish I knew the plans, when it is time for me to find out the truth I know I will. How did you find out all the info???? Did you call the ow? I want to call the ow but I don't want her to think that I am desperate."</strong><p>How? Creative snooping and paying close attention. Puttin doubt in the WS and OP always helped. So once I got past the pain of it all, it was pretty easy. Things just came my way. I heard voicemails, checked his phone and pager, e-mails, kept a journal and let them LB every chance I got. The nicer I was the worse she became. Remember I had a psyco on my hands, just needed to learn how to deal with her. The nut even said she was 'afraid' of me, accused me of threatening her life. Well I didn't but if I was going to be thrown in jail (which she also threatened, I certainly would consider doing the crime!!! LOL! ) [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]
So I thank'd WS and OP every chance I got for them giving me more ideas on how to mess up their lives!!!! LOL! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Get past your pain. It will not go completely away but eventually you will get to the point that their antics will be way to stupid and you just have to laugh. Oh I did cry but it got less and less, I was too busy laughing. LOL!!! Posting here also helped. <p>L.

Lost,<p>How are U doing????? Did those instructions scare you off? LOL! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Orchid,<p>I am not scared. I haven't had time to go on line. My H hurt his ankle (not broken but a bad sprain) on Sunday and has been home since. Oh don't get me wrong, he still finds excuses to go out. But I don't say anything anymore. But he has been asking me for alot of help. So I am trying to deposit as much as I can. HE NEEDS ME...<p>Creative snooping? I only have a pager to find out info. And my H has been taking the battery out of it at night. Pretty damn smart, if I say so myself. I could follow him but I don't want to. I have been controlling myself. I figure I will find out what I need to know in due time. If I was meant to find out then I will. I am not going to make myself crazy anymore.<p>The pbr was scared of you. That's funny. I was going to go to the ow house but I ended up not only because I knew that I would hurt her and end up in jail. Not good....... So I didn't/haven't yet. By the way the pig paged my H the other day and he said that he didn't know why?? YAH RIGHT. I again told him to tell her to stop. Only GOD knows if he has. I haven't mentioned it anymore.<p>I am trying to get past the pain. It has subsided but I still have my moments. My H just don't understand what he has done. Maybe one day he will. Untill then I will just try to be nice and take things day by day. He told me that he can't handle it when I just look at him. It must be GUILT................ <p>Will H ever be able to talk about things? <p>Thank You,<p>Lost
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Together 18, Married 10
d-day 03-12-02, d-day2 04-17-02, d-day3 04-28-02
2 boys (9&6) 1 girl (3)
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Hi Lost, <p>Thanks for your update. <p>To address your question about will your H ever be able to talk about it? In recovery the answer is yes, but not right away. <p>That is where patience comes in. Mine has taken a loooooong time. To him though it is quick. See we are still in 2 different time zones! LOL [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>If you feel you are in recovery then let him work on making you happy. Let him know his primary responsibility is to meet your needs. He needs to realize he has to get back your approval and respect. Sounds easy but it is hard. The more he bucks the farther back it sets him. Let him know that. Find a point of agreement and build from that point. It may be a small thing but work from there. <p>About the battery. If he feels he needs to remove the battery every night. Let him. It might get 'lost'!!?!?!? roll under the bed into that never never land of dust bunnies. Hm...... oooohhhh bad - Orchid! <p>Well, I never said I was good allll the time! LOL!<p>take care,
L.

Orchid,<p>Yesterday was my Son's b-day and it was going great untill I told H that I had a dream about him. It was about the ow. H asked me about it and I told him. Well to make a long story short I told him. Then my son said who was the dream about. I said about your FATHER and his gf. My son said DAD don't have a gf. Then I said why don't you ask him. Of course he said NO. Well the day was basically shot. H ignored me the rest of the day. After my Son's day was over and the kids were in bed. H started again. He said why do I always start. Why do I always assume. And why did I tell my Son that about his gf. I just replied was is the big deal? I didn't mean any harm. I was just playing. Anyway nothing is going on so what is the big deal. H didn't say anything. OHHHHHHH I wish I knew. I told him that he promised me that he would tell it to stop paging him. I asked him has he. H didn't say anything. <p>Orchid, I know they say stupid things. But I am getting tired of it all. Will it stop??? I am trying to get better but it seems like when I am nice H takes advantage of me. Or he ends up saying something ignorant. FOGGG??????<p>Lost