Up on my soapbox again ... haven't climbed up here in a while. Let's see, too many new faces, and far too many old ones, too Well, I'll get on with it:<P>NSR touched on this in his thread on his session with Steve Harley and again in his thread on Plan A.<P>I defy anyone who knew me two years ago and who knows me still to tell me I have become a doormat and lost my self-respect and self-esteem. Of course, being diagnosed finally and treated for depression has made some of the changes in me possible, the catalyst for even that was the revelation of my husband's affair and his intention to move out last year. I bought "How to Get Your Lover Back" immediately. Then I found this site (again - I'd been a visitor a few years previously ... so you know that the problems have been there for a while). I bought "Divorce Busting" and then "Surviving an Affair" and "His Needs, Her Needs" and then I bought a few other relationship books and discovered that my feelings that I'd somehow contributed toward the deteriorating conditions in my marriage were valid. My friends were NOT right in saying "this is all about him - you didn't do a thing." I was at fault in the downfall of our relationship as much as he.<P>This revelation has enabled me to realize that right now, I am the one that must work on myself in order to work on the relationship. I view my husband as "sick" or "addicted" and, as K points out every so often, I would never consider myself demeaned to care for him if he was stricken with cancer...<P>My experiences, even if he should never come back, have made me stronger, bigger, better. I have learned just what is the value of being "right"... Actually, I have learned that nobody wins - this isn't a game, it's marriage. And if doing everything I can to save mine means that people will view me as a pathetic desperate woman, so be it. <B>I know the truth.</B><P>One cannot be "demeaned" unless they do not respect themselves for what they are doing and yet continue to do it. When one believes in one's actions, no matter how it may appear to outsiders, those actions ARE NOT DEMEANING!<P>Your mothers probably all said this to you at one time or another as you grew up... when you argued that you did something or wanted to do something "because all my friens are doing it!" She would say, "If all your friends decided to jump off the bridge - would you?" Just because an attitude is prevalent or popular does not mean it is RIGHT. And it doesn't mean you have to do it the "popular" way...<P>We aren't jumping off a bridge... we are saving our marriages - and divorce is far more damaging to one's self-esteem than this could ever be.<P>We are NOT doormats - no matter what it is we have to do. If we begin to *feel* like doormats AFTER WORKING HARD at Plan A, then, it is likely time for Plan B. But remember that nobody is walking on you. You are doing what you must do to avoid the horrible scars of divorce... Believe me, I watched my sister and my best friend go through it, and the process of divorce is FAR more demeaning than is the Marriage Builders way...<P>Getting off my soapbox now ... <BR>Love, hugs and prayers to all!<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR>I believe in miracles...<P>

terri,<P>That was beautiful...<P>Words of inspiration... and real truth...<P>Thank you... <P>Jim

Well said, Terri. You're catching the brass ring. <P><BR>Laura

Terri<BR> I dont think the "doormat" issue was ment to be a hot two sided issue. For those of us that can stay in plan a and feel good about it, I feel that everyone here supports them and wishes them well. I think maybe it was brought up because some people are loosing there self esteam and are starting to feel used and taken atvantage of. For example, my H wants to divorce, date, and still have sex. I am having trouble with this. Its upsetting and my mind is overwelmed, my relationship is all i think about. So I have to make the decision if its healthy for me and my S. So I think that is where the doormat issue comes in. I think people bring it up to have others support their feelings. I know this is a MB site everyone needs to feel good about what they are feeling, becaus if a spouse comes back they usually want a strong person waiting for them. <P>Hope this maks sense. I admire anyone who can stay in plan A. <P>faythe<P><BR>

Well, I'm the one who started the "being right" issue, but I have to tell you...<P>If I was to find anything at this point going on between my H and Dragon Lady, I would probably go directly to Plan B, do not pass Go, do not collect $200. And it has nothing to do with being a doormat or not; being right or not.<P>But I have been in Plan A since March, and if the progress I've seen turned out to be a lie, I'm not sure I could cope.

I feel quite the same way..After being in P,an A for many months (18) he continued the affair, hiding it from me. Did I have a couple of angry outbursts in Plan A?? Yes, I will admit I did. But, all in all, I felt I did a good job in Plan A. I was attentive, available sexually, a recreational companion, etc...He just choose not to discontinue his relationship with her. It was/is an intense emotional affair, which may now have turned physical since she met him on a trip the last of November. At the time she was still with her H, so go figure...I finally got to the point where Dr. H states " go to PLan B when you feel you are falling out of love with your spouse." Have I given up?? No, but I knew for my own well being, I had hit the limit. Everyone has different tolerance levels, different points to where they can be taken and continue. But for me, Plan B is the best thing I could have done at the time. Whether he returns or not, I know I did the best for me and the kids. I was loosing my sanity and rationale. It has come back, and I feel better, in more control than I have felt in 2 yrs. <P>------------------<BR>Susan<P><BR>

The biggest problem with a long-term full Plan A, (that includes significant effort at needs-meeting, not just avoidance of love busters), is it diverts the focus on rebuilding the rest of your life. In essence, it is an "all your eggs in one basket" approach. Plan B is very much the opposite. It forces you to focus elsewhere.<P>Whether or not this is bad is an individual decision. A small percentage of people will accept no solution other than reconciliation, regardless of how long it takes or what the likelihood of success is. The problem is, the state of limbo with a betrayer that will not make a decision and does not seek external help can go on for multiple years. It is an individual decision as to whether this is acceptable. In no way would I ever consider it to be wrong to make the choice to continue. I just think that most people will lose their love for their spouse, along with their commitment towards reconciliation, within a two year time period. That's certainly what I'm experiencing.