tofu:<p>There ARE situations here where an OC is raised by the BS and WS working on the M together. You've basically got a combination of a gal in the midst of her A (it ain't run down yet) AND pregnant. I actually believe that her emailing you with her "news" was a perverse subconcious way of keeping you in her life. Maybe this could work out eventually, but you certainly don't need to be subjected to this kind of thoughtless crap while her A is still going on. So, even going so far as filing for DV at this point is probably GOOD for you to do. It may "help her" wake up, but that's got to be her choice anyway. You need out. You don't need this nonsense.

Tofu, I agree with 2long. Your W is still very much involved in her A and her e-mail to you shows how much she's got her head stuck up her a**. She is acting like a child inside a woman's body, she presently does not have the capacity to be anybody's W. <p>Tofu it's not a matter of beign a quitter but of beign a realist.<p>Who knows, maybe divorce will not only be good for you but for her as well since she will have to face reality, the killer of all fantasies, and be forced to grow up and become an adult.

Hey Tofu:
I did it! I spoke to my H and started Plan B today. I first asked him if I have done everything to try to reconcile this marriage, he said, "Yes", then I asked him if there was anything I could do to try and make this marriage work. He said, "No", then I told him as long as he is in this adultrous affair, I cannot have any contact with him. He agreed but had these sad puppy dog eyes. He knew I meant it this time. I am feeling so good and confident about doing this. I will see how I feel next week, that could change but I can now say I am in it with you. Oh, a little confession here: I fed my H a nice dinner before I sprang the news of Plan B. I am feeling a little sorry for him as his father is dying. I am now one week behind you in Plan B. Let me know how it goes. Kim....

MF, You sound really sure about your step to plan B, and that's really good. Stay strong, and take it a day at a time. I'm in day 6, I think... I dunno, but I think I'm getting stronger every day, while she weakens. It's a good feeling. I hope it stays this way...<p>Take care.

When I went into my plan B which I wasn't planning on doing it at the time I was devestated. I was on the phone with her and she started with this, "I love him crap. I can't take a baby away from his real father blah, blah, blah." After hearing those words, I was way too hurt after what we had been through the weeks prior to that that I had decided enough was enough! I went into plan b. Upon hanging up the phone I cried like a baby for about five minutes. After settling down, a tremendous relief came over me. I knew I had done the right thing. I felt very clear and ready to face life without her with the knowledge that life with her (as she was at that time) would be most likely a complete hell. I am also very aware as a result of this most recent email that plan B has not quite cleared the fog at all. I believe divorce is the most logical next step. I was talking to my parents about that today and naturally they feel like that is the best thing but they have not forced their views on me. They understand that I haven't been quite ready to let go of her and I have been still willing to raise the OC.
Hey who knows I might still be doing that but not with my wife, I will be doing it with my x-wife.
I will call the lawyer tomorrow.
I will keep you all posted.

D-route may be the way to go, tofu. Someone here on MB once told me this:<p>"Even if you divorce it may not be over between you two. ...The reality is that you can control none of these things, and right now she is not in the rebuilding business, so what is left?"<p>I think this applies to you, too. And I think it's sound advice.<p>Filing for D is like knocking her on her a**. Then she's gonna do one of 3 things. Either lay there stunned, not knowing what hit her or what to do. Or get up and fight you like he!!. Or knock some sense into her and ask for you to help her get back on her feet.<p>My WW filed for divorce a while back, so I'm headed down the same road. Whatever the outcome, I wish you luck.

dear Tofu:
I have to say that I admire you that you would be willing to take this child and raise it as your own and forgive your W. Your W is giving away a treasure. She is crazy. I can see you have such a big heart and I think you deserve so much more. She is at a great loss and will realize it one day. You have such integrity and one woman will see that one day. You deserve someone great.
Kim..

tofu,<p>I hate to be a contrarian here, but I am not sure he email was meant to hurt you. She was sharing her joy about the baby. I realize it hurt like heck and it would have simply killed me, BUT you need to recall, the no matter the father, this is HER baby and her first baby. She wanted to share her joy with you.<p>Women can be complete idiots at times in fact when a woman goes into the idiot phase which they seem to do less than men [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] , they do it in such Grand style, that us guys just cannot compete. In this case she has not really connected the dots yet, and I doubt it occured to her how much it would hurt you to hear her joy. Yet, where babies are concerned women can really really be nutty.<p>So, my take on it is that she wasn't trying to hurt you, but was sharing with you her joy about HER baby. Just was being an idiot about it all. Of course the fog really helps this process along.<p>I think she understood your offer to raise the child. I think she knows you would go to great lengths to save this marriage. I think at this point she doesn't care or believe you can really do this. It has been done. Several posters on this site have indeed done it, the most well known and probably most knowledgeable is K. There are several other men as well, not to mention women here dealing with OC, but none of them are raising these children.<p>Tofu, if you are ready for a divorce, the move into it, if you have reservations don't ask for something you don't want. It is clear your life will be much simpler without W and new child in the picture, especially if she is not really into rebuilding the marriage but would want to "just move on" and ignore it.<p>You are in a tough place, with hard decisions to make, but have confidence when it comes time to make your decisions, the decision will most likely be obvious. You may have other choices but the data will lead you clearly in one direction.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

I have no doubt that when WW shared her joy about the baby she was not trying to hurt me. I know that from the start she did not nothing with the intention of hurting me but this is from her, "I knew it wasn't right, but I just couldn't stop myself." (in regards to the A) I do appreciate the support and the compliments. It is nice to be appreciated it, but unfortunately the one person in the world who I want to love me and appreciate me doesn't do it so I must let her go. It is scary to think about moving on without her but I have MB, my family and friends, and God with me. I feel good about this. I know it may not be over with her, but with the D looming ahead it does allow me to really let her go and start the process of rebuilding myself.

Hi tofu:<p>I fully understand what you are going thru, I am in the same boat. the word D scares the hell out of me but looks like the only option I have, I am running out of patience every day that passes by the love bank balance drains out and I keep thinking is this worth saving ??? do you have any thought you would like to share...<p>Also, I have this thinking process that if miracle happens and WW comes back do I really want her back will I be able to deal with the reality.. man its killing me... <p>thelion

My feelings for my WW are slipping away too. The longer this takes, the less I seem to care. I have the same feelings about the future... if she ever wants to come back, could I be able to deal with reality? Could I ever be able to make love to her again? Could I ever trust her? I know everyone has those same thoughts running through their head.<p>The D-word doesn't scare me so much anymore. I think it's inevitable, in my case. I just wonder what our feelings (me and WW) for each other will be. Since we have kids, there's no way i'm going to be able to just stop talking to her forever. She's always going to be some part in my life, whether I like it or not.<p>We just need to work on ourselves now.

Lion: I would stick it out a little while longer. You are still very much in love with her. I feel like you are going to regret pulling out so soon. It seems like your WW is sort of coming out of the fog and your parents talking to her may have helped ease her feelings of guilt at coming back. She can see that she will not be hated by them. Try to live life as if having a woman in your life right now is not important. Focus on your friends, work, religion etc. . .While my wife was with OM I focused on my work and spirituality and I actually found myself very happy at the time. Oh, I also took a tennis and golf class and bought a few vegetarian cooking books and developed some healthy cooking techniques. For awhile I was eating only take-out and I realized that this was not going to help me. Find things you enjoy doing that you never had the time to do while she was around. This may help you during this period.<p>John- since you have kids I would stick with it as well. It may be that she comes around and your kids and her will be very grateful for your patience. If DV does occur, at least you and your kids will know you gave it your all. <p>One more positive -
When my wife finally returned home after not seeing her for four months before we learned that she was pregnant - we spent two wonderful weeks together. There was no SF but there was a lot of cuddling, holding hands, and talk. It was great. I really felt like we could make it, but OM pestered!!! Then the baby! It all went downhill from there. But I think that there was a chance for us if there was no OC coming.

Hello tofu:<p>Maybe you are right, I am going to try and hang on for a while, but doesn't seem to help....<p>How long is enough ? it has been 3 months from the D-day and 6 months thru the hell....<p>Thanks for all your advise and sharing the pain we all are going thru...<p>thelion

I think you should hang in there too if you can.
What do you have to lose in waiting?<p>As long as you can deal with the pain and don't LB, time is on your side.<p>I could wait a lot longer personally if my wife wasn't telling me she is filing for divorce every time I speak with her. (I don't want a divorce but wonder if I'm hoping for nothing since she is so adamant that it is "over" and she doesn't love me but "OM" .... maybe there is an advantage in filing first? I'm not ready so I won't, but just wondering.)<p>The funny thing is that the "f-you's", "I hate you", "regret marrying you", "I'm experiencing things I never felt with you", "OM is a real man because he works two jobs", etc... don't bother me so much anymore.<p>Good luck to all of you, all of us!<p>-Heartbroken & hoping<p>--------------------------------------------------
2/22/02 WW out w/OM discussing marital problems until 3AM
3/02 WW wants separation, admits "feelings" for OM. Loves me but not "in love" with me.
3/02-4/02 WW moves to parents but visits me.
4/02-5/02 Plan A starts. WW moves back, rarely is home. Reveals feelings to OM, PA starts (?)
5/9/02 Discover WW & OM together at beach.
5/12/02 - 6/02 WW moves back into parents'. Some visits and angry calls for her stuff and "her money." She calls me, I don't call her.
6/13/02 WW visits, cries, kisses me, misses me, says she loves me. Feels guilty for cheating on OM with me.(??)
6/14/02 - today
WW Says 6/13 was a mistake & she is in a committed relationship now. Angry phone "f-you" calls continue with intensity about wanting "her money", divorce soon, splitting assets/debts/possessions and I'm "sick for still hoping, waiting" and "an ******* for not selling the house and giving her 'her money'". Plans for her own apartment and her mediator/divorce attorney to talk to me are solidifying.

Hi aanast2:<p>how long ??????<p>I will try, thanks for your encouragement, but I dont see and light at the end of the tunnel.<p>thelion

ANOTHER EMAIL FROM WW
I probably should have blocked her address but I just can't!
The email was very short, she is wondering why I did not respond to her last email. (duh, I am on plan B! I guess she did not get that) She said she figured I needed some time away from her to think. She said she just wants to know how I am doing and how was my move. She asked me to send her a short note if I don't want to talk to her. Oh boy what to do what to do
I have a meeting on tuesday with the DV attorney. She does not know that.
Any suggestions . . .
thank you

Lion
I'm like you... I can't see the light at the end of the tunnel. How long is long enough? Life is short, and to wait around for a M that may not work anyway seems to be futile. I've been going through this crap for almost a year, now. She's been pulling tricks out of her hat so she could have her cake and eat it too. I dunno, Lion, it's hard to hang on to that fragile little thread of hope, and say that I've really got a chance. So, what do we have to lose? We have precious time of our own lives. Can you tell that I'm feeling a bit down on my W? Maybe you can give me a pep talk, or something.<p>Tofu-
I don't think that the kids are enough for me to stick around and wait. She's been a poor excuse of a mom for them since she met OM. She's repeatedly lied to them, and they know it. My oldest S won't even speak to her. I think maybe it's better to show my kids that I have some dignity, and I shouldn't let them see their mom treat me like crap, and get away with it. I think they're learning a lesson by this, but it's the wrong message. They know I've busted my [censored] to try and keep my family together. I've filed for custody of these kids because they need to be raised, not shoved in the corner for storage. They need to be loved, and taught, and taken care of... they're not getting that with her. And she's proven time and time again that the OM is more important to her than her own kids.<p>Whew... it's nice to vent once in a while. Maybe i'll feel differently in a few days. But right now, I feel like my M is hopelessly gone south.

I don't know how long. I guess only you really do. I guess it is when you know moving on is best for you, you don't want WS back - in fact you're better off without WS, and you won't regret a divorce.<p>Perhaps set a time limit for yourself. 1 year or 18 months of Plan B then you file for divorce or something like that. Or perhaps check with your feelings once that time limit for yourself has been reached.<p>I guess Plan B has two outcomes. <p> 1. A taste of what divorce would be like, WS needs aren't completely met by OP, affair dies, and WS wants to come back to M (before #2 happens)<p>2. you fall out of love or at least enough out that you feel you did everything possible for the marriage and you did not fail (it did) i.e. you won't have any (more) regrets about ending M.<p>You probably know all of this. I don't know if I'm any help really. This is coming from a guy who is trying Plan A (not doing so well I guess) with a wife who he rarely sees, and is always angry when she talks to me. <p>I know it is a "narrow path" of Plan A/B and I fear I've fallen off track. She won't let me meet her needs, whatever I do or not do is a LB, etc. The working on me part is going well though.
I wonder if I go to Plan B if that will make her think I'm giving up and/or provoke her to file for a D (if she hasn't already.)<p>I ask you again though, besides some time, what do you have to lose in waiting? It hasn't been 3-5 years of Plan B or anything that long. I know it is easier said then done but perhaps it'll be worth it? perhaps waiting longer and you'll *know* it is long enough?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tofu:
<strong>ANOTHER EMAIL FROM WW
I probably should have blocked her address but I just can't!</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Why can't you?<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>
The email was very short, she is wondering why I did not respond to her last email. (duh, I am on plan B! I guess she did not get that) She said she figured I needed some time away from her to think. She said she just wants to know how I am doing and how was my move. She asked me to send her a short note if I don't want to talk to her. Oh boy what to do what to do
I have a meeting on tuesday with the DV attorney. She does not know that.
Any suggestions . . .
thank you</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Well if you are a masochist, I would say hop on the emotional rollercoaster one more time by responding to her e-mail, then get your hopes up too high and pray that she will be consistent and break your hopes for marital recovery one more time by telling you about how marvelously the baby is developing inside of her and how wonderful OM has been to her lately.<p>Face it tofu, your W beleives that you will always be there for her even if she decides to cheat on you again and again. You forgave her once ,and so now she beleives that you will forgive her again and again and again. As BryanP would say 'she has lost her moral compass' and is totally in a world where she will not acknowledge the tremendous damage she has done to you.<p>I vote that you do not respond to her e-mail and keep your appointment with your attorney to start the divorce proceedings.

Coffee man thanks for keeping me strong! I needed that. I am definetely proceeding with the DV, but it is still really hard to let go, really hard. Even with OC, OM, and the A still happening there is a part of me that doesn't want to lose her even if it is obviously the best thing for me and my future. Luckily that part of me is very small and gets smaller everyday.
There is the pain of seeing her emails, yes, but there is also the part of me that wants to see her begging me to take her back so I can then tell her no, oh that is evil but it is sometimes difficult to not have really angry thoughts at a time like this. I do hope that OM is not what I imagine him to be and he will be a great father to the child and a good husband to my stbxwife. I assume she would marry him after I DV her.