Lets try and keep this as short as possible.
Root cause of our M difficulties has been a failure to meet EN and numerous LBs. I have worked away from home Sunday Night to Friday Evening for many years now. I have come home tired to get LBs such as everything I did was wrong and nagging. Result me fighting back, me spending too much time on computer developing my website.
WS has an EA with old work customer who she has kept in touch with for 20 years.
In June 2002 WW accuses me of arguing and upsetting our son who is in middle of important exams. My recollection was that she was doing most of the arguing.
Ask WS if we can reconnect and am told it is too late. She says I am better off without her and would be better off leaving. She denies any A.
I look up MB and try Plan A. I hadn’t got angry with her at any time but have told her that if she is so unhappy that she should leave me. WW tells me that she has no intention of leaving and that she is going to stay in the house with our sons.
From this time WW treated me like a leper and generally found fault with everything I did.
I return home to find OM in our house. He is innocent until proved guilty so I am hospitable to OM. WW admits to confiding in OM as she says she can’t talk to me.
I phone OPW when WS is out and tell her “I am concerned with the amount of time your H is spending with my W”. She says, “I have no comment to make”. When WW returns home she is not aggressive but in tears for the first time in many years.
It appears phone call ended A for afternoon. Somehow A got patched up next day.
Another positive result of phone call is a massive reduction in mental abuse from WS. WS tells me OM’s W does not want to hear from me again so I haven’t been in touch. She says OM will talk with me if I like. She even says OM has offered to stay away for 6 months but that she can’t do without him.
I have got a job working from home albeit temporary but am trying to make it permanent.
My problem is that WS has not made any meaningful moves to repair our M. WS won’t even consider discussing her EN. WS even appears to have planned events in the future (Concerts etc) that don’t include me.
When I spend time with WW we get on well. Ws says I am not helping by being at home. Ws tries to stop me when I help out with household chores. She has admitted I have bee nice to her for at least 6 weeks but is using that to say that I didn’t help before. This is only partially true as there is only so much you can do at the Weekend. Trying to keep sanity is extremely difficult but I have persevered so far. These seem to have been the longest weeks of my entire life and Christmas seems and eternity away.
The closest I have got to reconciliation with WS is when I said I was considering leaving her to see if the OM could make her happy but that she would have to live on less money as my salary would have to sustain 2 households. This caused her to say that she would give me 12 months to prove myself, later reduced to 6 months.

MB says that A can fizzle out when families know (when the A is out in the open). If I was to broadcast the knowledge, will it be looked on by WW as trying to pressurise her, as she is very concerned about her reputation? I was hoping it would come out naturally but WS meets with OP at her friend’s house now as our children are home.
I have identified that we must sort out each others EN if we are to save our M but I can’t get any progress while the A is running. Does it matter if I go to Plan B without all the family knowing about the A? Am I wasting my time? What can I do to improve matters?

<small>[ December 18, 2002, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: MurphySLaw ]</small>

I think Murph has posed a good question and so I'm helping to bump this back up. It seems to me that at some point, the WS has to be made (even forced) to realize the ugliness and selfishness of their actions. To have the bubble of this fantasy world they're in pierced and deflated. How can we help to bring that about and still hold onto the hope of saving our M? Are there any strategies to accomplish this while still remaining in Plan A mode and before going to Plan B?

On the one hand, we are reluctant to "tell the world" about the A (even if you decide to go to Plan B), because it will affect how people look at us for a verrrrry long time, even if the M is saved. On the other hand, getting it out in the open definitely robs the WS and OP of the security blanket secrecy provides and, perhaps, facilitates the bursting of that bubble.

So what do you think? Please share your thoughts and suggestions.

<small>[ August 15, 2002, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: StrongWill ]</small>

Well hello! I will answer your question with an outline of my own situation if thats OK by you, but of course although everyones situation here is similar we also have our own unique bits & pieces within our marriages that bought us here.
My H had an EA 12 yrs ago never had counseling for it & muddled thru (this will be a long post so sorry about that) H said he would never again have a femail friend.

4 yrs ago H started helping a woman who was friends with us both (actually I damn well introduced them & am still kicking myself 4 that)she wanted a horse to ride so used one of ours she had trouble handling the horse so H started riding with her all the time.

Friendship went on & on imagine this picture it became their time together she didnt want her H joining them & h didnt want me there either, I got the whole 9 yards of you wont enjoy it you dont ride like we do' you only want to come & check up on us because you dont trust us yada yada yada. at first I let it go but then it got the better of me & I was LB big time & I guess if you are out having a great time & then come home to the W who is as p****d off as hell with the situation the grass will sure start to look greener. Anyway on & on it went & the more i bought it up (even with her, i said one day I was really worried about the situation (she knew about the first affair) her reply to me was well you may stop us riding together but you will never stop our friendship!! So what could I do i just tried sooooo hard to get them to see what was happening but they didn't want to see. H even said to me about 6 months before we seperated that she had said that they were spending too much time together so they weren't spending so much time together now H said that it was him that kept them riding together but that she did lean on him too much.

Anyway to cut a long story short one night in bed I asked H why he never told me he loved me anymore, his reply was because I don't I havent loved you for 2 yrs.. Well talk about a huge slap in the face for me I left for a night as i couldnt handle the rejection if only i had understood then what plan A meant I had been on this site but was in such a state that nothing was making any sense to me, I said to H well I will just have to go then H said you know I would never ask you to leave but I felt it was the only way to go H wouldnt give up this friendship totally. Came back but i ended up moving into the spare room. (H reply to me some time later was that we seperated the night that i moved out of the bedroom I so wish i hadn't made that move but it's done now.

H came to me a couple of times for SF but if i went to him he would say what do you think you are playing at!! Had me well confused i can tell you & each time he came to me for it he would say don't get your hopes up we are over we can't live together, I am not going to be miserable for the rest of my life when i loved you i could overlook the way you are but not anymore. the i would write him emails saying how I thought we could fix things & if I ever got a reply it was to say get over it & move on & stop blaming yourself (well today i just realised why i was blaming just me in the end...what was his comment about how he could overlook the way I was) He then said can't we just enjoy our last few weeks together & be just friends to which I replied you dont treat your friends like this...

Well H & I had a row one day which ended in me saying well sell the bloody farm then & would ya believe it the very next mroning I was having a nap & H came & woke me up saying that the real estate agent was there 4 me to sign the papers everything happened so fast from that time on I could hardly believe it myself...Property was sold assets divided etc etc. Just b4 I left i said i'm sorry but all this points to you & OW having an affair he said I know you all think that but you will be proved wrong!! (the whole village had been talking about them having an affair for a couple of years) So all this time i was sure something was going on but just had no actual proof..... I honestly thought i was going insane one day i just knew i was right the next day I didn't know which way was up. This OW was coming nearly daily to have coffee with me & to smoke my cigarettes right until the time i had to visit my sick mother who has cancer (i was away for 9 weeks & H was telling people that he didnt miss me one bit (people did not know at this stage that we were seperating). while I was away H emailed me saying that he was shocked to hear that OW & her H were seperating & f****d if he knew why!!! Then said he had talked to her H & he had said the writing had been on the wall for them for yrs (pity I hadn't been privvy to this info) A couple of weeks b4 we seperated her H mentioned to me one day that 2 yrs ago he had put software on their computer that tracked every keystroke & that H & OW were emailing each other (h had a private email acct) nothing that said they were actually having an affair but it hurt OW H so bad that he deleted the program AND DECIDED TO WAIT 2 YEARS TO TELL ME THIS WAS HE OFF HIS ROCKER OR WHAT!@@# He then decided that if she was so unhappy with him he would let her go & told her 18months later that their marriage was over!!It could have helped me save my marriage I was soooo mad remember H was still telling me that this was just a friendship!! They were always on the phone & text messaging one another but still H would not admit to an A so I ended up looking like the neurotic wife...

Anyway I ended up giving H a plan B letter (bad move but also the only way I could keep any love I had left for him) & also sent OW a letter ( a nice one saying how I didnt want to see her right now as i felt that although the first affair had been hard for us that this friendship was the eventual cause of our marriage breaking down, there was never enough room in our marrage for 3 people & said that my marriage was over for now but I would be there for a time if my H ever decided differently I know a big mistake but one i have learnt from. I am a very rash fix it NOW! sort of person & I am currently dealing with this.

I ended up leaving the village not telling H where i was going cause i was in plan B remember. B4 I left I organised a job back in the village always intending to come back & rented a flat. During this time H & I had quite a few text message arguments regarding division of property & in the end our son stepped in as mediator as we had also just formed a company a couple of yrs ago & I had put in a major amount of work which I wasnt going to reap the benifits for I said to our son I don't want to be in a position in a couple of yrs where I have set H & OW up in business & I am feeling ripped off! son said do you really think thats what will happen I said yes so son drew up a deal & contacted h with it at first H said no then changed his mind. At this stage I dont think son thought H was capeable of doing something so awful to us.

Anyway I eventually came back to the village & noticed that when i went to work early in the morning H truck was parked outside Ow house so he was obviously staying the nite there then son phoned me & said H had just rung him & said he was going up 4 a visit but was bringing someone else with him so they would stay in a motel (H used to always stay with son) son said do you know about this I replied what i had seen. Son rang H back & asked him what was going on H said he & OW were just friends but it was more than that now!!! WELL WELL WELL I WASN'T THE MAD WIFE AFTER ALL! It is now out in the open & I honestly believe that If I hadnt gone away that this would have gone on under ground for years it took me actually having to leave my marriage (not that I am reccomending anyone ese do this) for the affair to actually come out I mean how can H expect anyone to believe his story maybe if it had been a yr down the track it could have been believable but after 5 weeks it doesnt take a rocket scientist to work it out. The girl that wors for H in his business said to me the other day that she was so sorry that even though
she rode with them they also managed to pull the wool over her eyes I said I knew I wasnt a crazy woman she said I knew that but now i really believe you... Anyway I am now back in plan A having counselling with Steve Harley & have gone from H hating me (well he probably still does) but if i am out i go up & say hello to him general chit chat he has been here to borrow a couple of things & we had a coffee I acted upbeat have lost 80lbs in weight & feel good about myself H only contacts me if he needs anything & as far as I know he wont be needing anything else from me in the near future so dont expect to hear from him at all, if we are out anywhere he never initates a conversation but if i go up & talk to him he talks to me the rest of the time there is a very thick brick wall around him. But like I said to steve Harley we have come a long way I am the only one working on this at the moment H told me never to come back here in the hope that we would get back 2gether cause it would never happen. But we have gone from not talking to at least being able to hold a converstaion or two.

. I have done so much damage but looking back I think it was the only way to go as I had to be rid of this "friend" once & for all & I truly believe that for this A to come out it will now crash & burn & Steve said that when it does H will be looking at his options & I have to look like the best one!! hee hee Steve said that affairs that never reach the real world will go on for years!!!
Anyway sorry to have rambled on such a lot i feel like i have taken over your thread here but just wanted to give you my perspective of things & what a long perspective it turned out to be. Please anyone feel free to ask any questions you like I will do my best to answer...

This is an interesting topic. You may want to ask the same questions on the "General Questions II" board. There always seems to be more responses there.