I

<small>[ March 21, 2003, 06:53 PM: Message edited by: broken heart and arm ]</small>

Listen Hon, and remember we are all looking for something here. I may not have the answer for you, but I'll tell you my thoughts.
Read the Plan A/Plan B stuff on this site. I would NOT do A, go straight to B.
You are in Emotional and Physical Danger, and your kids need not see this.
The thing is that you need to set the expectations, you need to decide for yourself if you want to give this all you have and work on it together, and alone in your own thoughts. You strike me as a giver (me too) you have to learn how to expect and take when it is your turn.
Once you are sure wehat you want then you can share your expectations with your WS.
Be true to you, no matter what.
Any hey, maybe I am off base, but I have read this web site for 2 days straight (since I discovered my H was having an A) and I think your case sounds like a Plan B.

Good luck sweetie.

Testing,

I grew up in an abusive home. Watched my stepfather beat the crap out of my mother. She screaming at me to call the police, he telling me if I did he'd kill me (I was 12). I called.

Your kids must be your number ONE priority if there is violence. A man who will break your arm very well may hurt your children and even if he doesn't, the lessons they are learning are not the right ones. You do them no favors by staying.

But yes, I believe people can change behavior. Even abusive behavior. IF they want to and are committed to breaking the cycle and willing to get help. It takes time. Don't rush the reconciliation. Make sure he is really getting help and really getting better. Too many abusers are master manipulators. They know how to say what the therapist/counselor wants to hear without really meaning it.

I also strongly recommend counseling for you to deal with his abuse. Verbal, emotional or physical abuse wears you down. Even if you start out telling yourself, It's not me. I'm not to blame, you will eventually be sucked in and sucked dry. Your self esteem will be nil. You'll actually start making excuses for your abuser. Taking his blame.

Resist, resist, RESIST.

Feel free to email me at suzpreuss@yahoo.com if you would like to talk. I don't really want to go into a lot more detail here, but I know of what I speak.

Hang in there. I'm pulling for you.

Agree, Agree, get away fast. Plan B as fast as you can. wu

I'm going to copy what K just wrote on another thread...I think a lot applies here.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would suggest no divorce proceedings for a year, unless there is an overriding financial/legal issue at stake. However, you should remain separated until...

Your husband goes for counseling. I would highly suggest that he do anger management counseling with a counselor who specializes in this. In addition, I would suggest that the two of you use the MB phone counseling (which is expensive but worth it, IMO) for the marriage. One nice thing is because it's phone counseling, you can be at separate locations, if necessary. The other is that Steve or Jenn (Dr. Harley's children) are very experienced with dealing with this situation, and they're not going to force a premature reconciliation. That's my fear if you counsel with your pastor---I really doubt that he's trained for this type of situation.

Takola's suggestion of Lovebusters is excellent---it's the first book that is normally recommended in counseling, and it's pretty clear that your husband could use it. You may recognize yourself in one of the categories, as well (I know that I was the poster boy for three when I started counseling). In counseling with Steve, I was able to quickly eliminate two of my three trouble areas, and have been working on the third ever since---I was amazed how easy it was with the appropriate coaching. The other book I would recommend would be "Fall in Love, Stay in Love", which is a compendium of the whole Harley program. You can order both of these from the bookstore link at the top of the page.

After you read them, I would suggest that you get an appointment with either Steve or Jenn (888-639-1639) and talk with them, and get a plan put in place. Then involve your husband and pastor. If he's willing---terrific. If he balks, I'd ask him for an alternative plan, and if it's not adequate (let him know politely), then you would "do nothing" until you reached an agreement (meaning no reconciliation). I'd really probably hold out for what we've outlined (Harley counseling and anger mgmt). Remain separated until he's ready to give it a try, or you're ready to move on.

You may have an opening here---I'd hate to see it blown by inadequate (but well-intentioned) counseling. If you reconcile too soon and have to endure another round of this---I think that will extinguish any desire you have to save your marriage. And I believe that your children would be best served being in an intact family in which their parents demonstrate love and caring for each other. But if your husband is unable or unwilling to get help---I don't recommend going back to an abusive marriage for the "sake of the kids". There much more potential for harm. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have seen some cases where the Harleys recommended a separation while in Plan A. This may be one of those cases. I'm not convinced you need to be in Plan B (you may, but I haven't read your whole story, so I can't intelligently say), but you DEFINITELY should stay separated until/unless your H can guarntee your safety by demonstrating that he has truly changed...not a "promise".

Good luck--

Kathi

<small>[ September 07, 2002, 08:00 AM: Message edited by: kam6318 ]</small>

I

<small>[ March 21, 2003, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: broken heart and arm ]</small>

I

<small>[ March 21, 2003, 06:55 PM: Message edited by: broken heart and arm ]</small>

The plan is very clear, but I'm sure following it is the hard part. He wants to come home and be with the kids. He needs to stop the swearing and you need to work on the difficulties arising from the trust issues. You are in the right place.

At counseling, ask him if there are any specific behaviours or words that you can work on that annoy him. Then say you will work on stopping these in exchange for his stopping the swearing. Set him a goal: as soon as he has his swearing under tight control, he can come home. In the mean time, learning plan A will help you to stop the things that are annoying him.

Best of luck.

- relate

D

<small>[ March 21, 2003, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: broken heart and arm ]</small>

You must have double posted. I answered the other one. Really, what your main concern should be right now is his anger. He needs to stay out of the home until he gets help and can control himself. Listen to your kids. They seem to sound a little happy he's not living there. Kids are smarter than adults give them credit for. Don't worry about how he prioritizes his life, that's his concern. Actually no, I don't think it's guilt that's making him swear, I think it's his anger problem. I think he's mad because you're calling him on it. I think he realizes it was a mistake having the A, but I don't think he feels guilty yet. Did he even apologize for hurting you? The abuse and the A, I mean. If I were you, I would find someone to be there when he comes to see the kids and you find something else to do. I would go NC. He needs to realize what he's done.