I listened to Dr Harley on his wife's radio show via the internet today.

If I understood him right he was recommending to a woman who was seperated from her WH that since they were seperated then she should move to Plan B and he also said something about figuring out a way to break up the A.

This doesn't sound at all like what I've read on this board, in SAA, or what is printed on this website.

I understand that each case is unique, but it sounded like he was making a rather general statement.

My understanding was that the BS shouldn't do anything to intentionaly break up the A. Just Plan A the best that they can until the A dies a natural death or until the BS can't take it any more and is dangerously low in their LB toward spouse.

Input from those who truly understand Plan A and B. I've heard so many interpretations on these boards that it becomes confusing sometimes.

I've heard many BS mention that they are "Plan Aing their spouses". Doesn't make sense since I understood Plan A to be something you were doing for your self, not the WS.

Thanks and God Bless.

Biscayne,

I had been around so let me try but to get the real answer you have to call Harley himself and ask.

My understanding was that the BS shouldn't do anything to intentionaly break up the A. Just Plan A the best that they can until the A dies a natural death or until the BS can't take it any more and is dangerously low in their LB toward spouse.
You understood well. You don't interfere w/ A. Why ?, for illus. ... You might lock up WS (physically) and threathen to kill OP if A continus. However you might have your WS back pysically but your M may never recover.

I've heard many BS mention that they are "Plan Aing their spouses". Doesn't make sense since I understood Plan A to be something you were doing for your self, not the WS.
Plan A is for BS to address all the issues that WS has on BS in M. Actually you are doing for your WS ... to show that you could change or change person. You could be improving yourself to death but if those are not issues in your M, you are wasting your time. About separating WS from OM. By doing plan A/B you are in effect competeing w/ OP, tyring to separate WS from OP !!! but we are not interfering with their A.

-RH-

Plan A is a strategy to separate the spouse from the lover. That's a direct WH quote.

You do that by looking at the things you did to hurt your spouse.. LBers.. demands, disrespect, anger, annoying habits, independent behavior, and dishonesty. You address and change those things about yourself.

Then you look at the things you failed to do to make your spouse happy. Meeting needs. And you do that to the best of your ability. When a spouse is in the throes of an A, oftentimes they will not let you meet needs.

Basically, Plan A is about being pleasant to be around in the hopes that it will entice the WS to give up the lover and choose to work on the marriage.

Plan A will not restore love nor will it restore your marriage. That too is a direct WH quote. It is only the first part of a plan to end an affair.

Harley reccomends that men do Plan A for about 6 months, and women for not more than 3. He stated on Monday, that the average time a woman could remain in Plan A (without trashing her LBnk, being overcome by stress symptoms, and suffering from the pain) is 3 WEEKS.

When Plan A does not do what its stated purpose is, namely to end the affair, then you go to Plan B.

Plan B is a strategy to protect the BS from further pain due to the cruel and thoughtless behavior of the WS. It preserves what love is left for the WS, and should be done BEFORE the BS falls entirely out of love.

The hoped for secondary effect of Plan B is that the WS will remember the good job you did in Plan A and will want to come back once the A has ended.

As for doing nothing to end the A??? Harley reccomends you do everything you can. Tell everyone you know, (either Monday, or last week he made the statement that he thought it should be "on the evening news." ) Confront the OP and ask him/her to end the R with your spouse.

Go to the employer if they work together and ask for help. Go to your church organization and do the same.

Obviously, you cannot do things that would be violent or threatening. But you have a right to get the A in the open.

A's do not survive the light of day very well. Once they are exposed, the fantasy life ends and the judgement of those around the couple begins to intrude.

From that you can guess that embarrassment, fear, upset begin to take their toll on the straying couple. Arguments ensue, and love bank withdrawals are made. The affair ends.

Harely says all the time, if you hear him speak in person either on the radio or at his seminars, that his stuff is a work in progress. That he adds and subtracts as he sees things are working or not.

I would strongly reccomend that if you want to have a good strong grasp of his concepts and how they are applied to real people, that you make a habit of tuning into the radio show. I rarely miss it, and I always take notes.

What you read here is only what others think. I always reccomend to people that I work with that they come here for support on implementing the things they learn from the books, the articles, or working with me. Not for what to do, unless it is congruent with hard knowledge from one of those other sources.

So, if your question is do you take Harely's spoken advice or what you read here? I would go with Harely every time. And I would keep listening to learn more.

Cerri

Biscayne -- I am the woman who called the Harley radio program and was told to go to plan B and expose the A. I have done both and while I am pretty darn sad about the whole thing, I know I did a good plan A and that plan B is protecting me from further pain. If you want more on my story, it's over on GQII.

I was pretty surprised by what I heard from the Harleys that day (and more conversation occurred off the air with Joyce), but it does make sense. While plan A is about you, it's also supposed to be about negotiating the end of the A (directly from Harley's book) and that was not happening. I did this for nine months and frankly after d-day #2 and my WH working with the OW, I knew he'd sit on the fence for a very long time.

I needed plan B for me. I've put WH first for a long time and especially during the nine months of plan A and I was badly in need of doing something to protect me. You can implement plan A for the rest of your life, but you shouldn't have to do it forever without any reciprocation.

It is hard to go to plan B because you keep hoping that the WW or WH is going to "get it" on their own. They usually won't if they don't get it early on; they adjust to two people meeting their needs.

You have to make the choice though. I highly recommend calling into the radio show and getting their firsthand opinion.

I've heard many things about staying in plan A and not going to plan B and doing a modified plan B. W. Harley does not promote that. I think I only heard what I wanted to hear/see on this board for months, but after calling in, really saw what I needed to do.

My best to you in your endeavor to save your marriage.

Unsureheart,

I'll try to read and keep up with your story. Thanks so much for responding. I appreciate you taking the time.

I get confused on the Plan A and Plan B concepts between what I've read in SAA, hear from some here that I would consider to be knowledgable, and also those who post here that have counseled with Steve or Jennifer Harley.

At this point I am not sure if my WW is still involved with OM. I had considered contacting OM's wife early on and I decided that I would take what I considered to be the high road and leave that to God. My WW was a manager to OM in her job and when her mgr found out about her involvement with OM, my wife was fired. I thought, "Great!", this is the wake up call that she really needed. Instead she played the victim and insisted to them that they were only friends and that she should have never been fired. Still tells me of how bad the place is doing since her dismissal and generally implying that they were wrong and everything that she did was ok.

I am at the point where I am trying to "court and date" my wife in an attempt to win her heart back, assuming that she is not involved with OM. If I don't see things start to change in any way I will probably do some more investigating and find out if she is involved with OM and if she is then inform OM, wife's father (her confidant) and then move into Plan B as a last resort.

WW still talks to me with no real expectations of reconciliation in her conversations.

Thanks again and God Bless.

Biscayne -- I really hesitated telling anyone or seeing the A exposed because I thought it would be a big LB. I kept at plan A with my WH thinking that the A had ended. Both my therapist and Jennifer Harley suspected that it hadn't really ended because WH was not recommitting to even trying in our marriage, but had acknowledged I had changed and was appreciative, wanted to spend time with me, etc.

I was completly blown away when I got the call from a contractor that works for me that she saw WH and OW together in another part of the state. I wanted so badly to believe that the A was over. It had ended but restarted.

Your WW may be in withdrawal if she really has ended the A. Is there any way you can find out if it is ongoing? After talking to W. Harley, I now know that I should have been checking and gone to plan B sooner.

I had stopped the snooping and spying pretty much about a month ago after being somewhat convinced that their involvement had pretty much subsided. I have not asked because to tell you the truth I believed that if the A was still in full gear that confronting her again would score me a LB. I've been more the doormat than confrontational.

WW told me on D-day that she had wanted our M to end for quite a while (3-4 yrs.) and insisted that they were only friends. Although admited that it would not have been ok for me to have that kind of relationship with another woman. After a month and finding this sight I put that statement off to fog talk. I have found an old journal of hers that states back in 1998 that she wasn't happy, was convinced that I was unhappy, and believed that I deserved to be happy. At the time she was much more in touch with that empty feeling inside from unmet EN, than I was, but never confronted me.

I plan on finding out sometime in the next week or so if WW is still seeing OM. The only way that I have of really outing them at that time is to get in touch with OM's wife and let her know what is going on. I know that will be held against me majorly by WW.

How much did you get to talk with The Harley's off the air. I would love to counsel with either Steve or Jennifer but just have no way of coming up with the money right now.

Thanks for your responses and Good Luck to you.

Know that if WH doesn't respond to Plan B and you have to move on to D, that not only will you survive, but you will also have learned enough here and through the books to succeed in your next relationship.

Check out this site for some uplifting stuff. http://www.geocities.com/aftertheaffair/

Good Luck and God Bless.

<small>[ October 17, 2002, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: Biscayne ]</small>

Thanks Biscayne -- I really do recommend calling in to the radio show. Joyce talks to you for a few minutes before you go on the air and then they basically stay with you until your questions are answered on the air. It's pretty quick, but they know what they are doing.

I do think you need to find out if the A is still going on -- I wish I had done so sooner no matter how much it hurts.

m

<small>[ March 21, 2003, 06:44 PM: Message edited by: broken heart and arm ]</small>

Well my suspicions were correct. I followed the OM when he got off of work tonight and sure enough, he went straight to our house. Actually, he drove around the block to cover his tracks and then my wife pulled her car out of the garage so that he could park his car inside and hide it from view. Sneaky #$%&#(*'s!. But not sneaky enough enough for me.

I have written a letter to give to OM's wife. I'm pretty sure I know where she works and I will go and leave the letter on her car rather than try and talk with her at first. I think that a well thought out letter would be a better approach than trying to get my thoughts together speaking about this with her the first time.

After getting this letter to OM's wife, I plan on moving into Plan B.

I'm pretty sure that she knows something already, whether or not she knows that the A is still on remains untold.

Let me know of what you think of this letter to OM's wife
--------------------------------------------------
Dear OM's W,

Please allow me to introduce myself, as you may possibly know my name but we have never met before. I am Biscayne. You may know of me, or possibly may or may not have heard my name associated with my wife WW's name, who used to work for wife's former place of employment.

I have debated writing this letter more times than you can imagine. It is with considerable trepidation that I even find myself carrying through with it at this time. Please know right up front that my intentions here are only what I feel to be the best. I know if I were on the other side of the coin at this time, that even as much as what I am going to reveal may hurt you, I would want to be made aware of the events that have transpired over the last several months.

My wife (name) and I have been separated since the first week of June this year due to the fact that I found out that she had become involved in, (at least for a few weeks at that time) in what I would consider, in conservative terms, to be an emotional affair with your husband (name). I know that even after confronting my wife, they continue to be involved with each other, as I have confirmed their continued contact and involvement as late as this past week. I do not know a lot of details of exactly how involved they are, or have been. I do know that what I found, I could not, and would not, find to be an acceptable relationship for a married person to have, except with their spouse. My wife did lose her job at in the middle of July due to upper managements discovery of this involvement with your husband. So as you can see, I have not just come to this conclusion of my own sole accord. Nor, can I accept the explanation, which my wife gave to me at the time, of their relationship being only that of &#8220;friends&#8221;. She did admit to me at that time that she would not accept me having a relationship with another woman that was as involved as her and OM had become.

From day one, my intentions have never been anything but for my marriage to be reconciled. Again, I, in no way, shape, or form, intend this letter to be anything but informative, as I believe that you would want to be aware of what has been taking place, despite the possibly devastating feelings that I am sure you would experience upon receipt of this knowledge.

If you are already aware of this information about their involvement, I apologize for reopening this wound, and hope that you are doing ok through this.

Again, I hate being the one who has to share this information with you, especially if this is your first time becoming aware of these events of the past several months. I know of how devastated I was upon finding this out and can only imagine your feelings at this time. My hopes and prayers are for both of our individual families to be able to find a place in their hearts and minds to reconcile, and move past what has transpired.

If you so desire to contact me to discuss this any further, you may do so at xxx. If you should reach my business voice mail, you may leave me a message letting me know when and how to best return your call. I am the only person with access to this phone number and subsequent voice mail.

Sincerely,

Biscayne
------------------------------------------------

I hope and pray that this is the right move. I know that moving into Plan B with the holidays fast approaching will be very difficult. The crappiest part of this is that our children will suffer from this situation. My oldest made mention the other day that my W and I would be back together by Christmas. He said that he remembers us saying that, the day that we sat down and told them that we were seperating.

I hope that moving into Plan B will save what is left of my mind. I have been unable to concentrate on much else except some way for our marriage. Work suffers, my sanity suffers, and all of this 5 months after D-day.

Thank you and God Bless

Biscayne -- The letter is very thoughtful and I'm sure difficult to write. I know as the BS, I wish somebody had informed me of the A a lot sooner. I suspected but had no proof and was being made to feel like I was losing my mind/was an ungrateful harpy rather than a betrayed spouse that was being treated with no respect.

I am at my home computer, so I don't have access to the phone number (it's at work), but to get it, go to the Marriage Builders home page and click on the link that says radio program. It should take you to Joyce's radio show website and provide the 1-800 phone number to call. I will also track it down early tomorrow a.m. and post it to you here.

I am so sorry that you feel the way you do and that you've had to experience the pain of knowing OW is at your house. I went to a birthday party for a friend last night and mutual friends drove me there. The party was very nice, but then on the way home we drove down OW's street and WH's car was parked out front. It made me so sad. I know the point of plan B is partially to let WH and OW experience reality together, but it still hurts to know that he's with her. I know you feel the same.

My best to you. I would try and get a call in on the show tomorrow before you deliver the letter to OM's wife or do your own plan B letter. I will also forward you my plan B letter tomorrow when I get to work to your email address.

I will be thinking of you.