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O.k I have been reading How to survive an affair.Some may already know my story,but I'm so confused !!My WS is very moody he wants to work things out one day and the next he's yelling at me.He has many issue's abuse,drugs,and affairs.I ended up moving out and he has supervised visits with son.Court ordered,I know I know I need to get rid of him he is way out there...but until the divorce IS final I can't Totally stop trying at least.
He just called ,when ever i'm nice he gets angry.He's always trying to bring up things to justify why he left us.And if I don't say ya I agree....he'll start yelling and hang up on me.
He said I made him go and have an affair(My response I'm sorry for not meeting your EN the way I needed to,I would like to do that when you give up the OW...but you decieded to walk out on us,we didn't give up on you).
He says You better believe I'm walking away look at all the bills you left me with.Paying most of the bills must be a EN... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> just joking!!

How do you respond when they start yelling at you??? I want to Try doing plan A for a week then start PLAN B!? What do you think???? I know I'm crazy he's a jerk....i just need to feel like i gave it my all 200%

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Well when there is abuse involved I'm not so sure you should be in Plan A.

But to answer your question anyway, if WS is yelling and angry, be a good listener. Don't let the words, anger, etc push you off the path of Plan A and get you angry. Some say anger is just a sign or way of hiding of being hurt. Maybe thinking of it that way can help.

When I say be a good listener I mean repeat what is being said back to the speaker as wella s ask summary questions like "so you are saying x, y, and z... is that right?" in a way that does not sound sarcastic but that you are actually listening and trying to understand. You don't have to agree with x, y, and z but at least show WS that you are listening and hear what is being said loud and clear.

If you feel that you must disagree, then fine, do it, say I hear that you are saying this but I disagree with it.

Good listeners also have open body language (make good eye contact, don't have arms crossed, do lean forward showing interest, don't roll eyes or sigh or make any non-verbal signs of disrepect or not listening.)

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Thank you for your response!!!
I'm letting his verbal attacks bounce off of me.When I don't respond he becomes more verbally hurtful.I'm praying he gets to the point where he will want help for domestic violence in the past,drug use,and for the two affairs he's having right now.
I live at my parents house he comes over to to his son here...court ordered.And when I see him or when he calls I am nice/trying to fill EN.
I haven't been bringing up the ow..but he keeps telling me he doesn't care about them...flat out said he's using them!!
He stopped by today for 2 hours...longest he's ever been around here.Since I left our place in Sept2002...after him forcing me out and our son out.
I let him do a load of laundry and we walked our son to the park.
All he wants from me to be even friends with me he says is MOney,and for me to let him have our son every other weekend!!
Are these EN?
Why should I pay for bills when I don't live there after him asking me to leave..while he's sleeping most of the time over the two OW's places...and having them over there?
And letting him have our son every other weekend...when I have no clue if he'll snap at our son!!??
If there EN I can't fill them to risky.
He aked me what I was doing for thanksgiving...i asked him what he was doing but..his reply probly spending it alone(more like with one of the ow)..but I envited him for dinner with my family.
Just trying to be upbeat,welcoming when he comes....but he always shoots me down until I fufill those things he wants nothing to do with me.But wants to all of a sudden do laundry here!!
I'll offer him food while he's playing with our son he says you'll probly poison it.
I just blow it off.....I'm not kissing his butt..but I am listening to him talk about life incouraging him admiring what he's working on.Trying to fill EN.

But I don't want to be a doormat either.So Plan B looks like it will be coming soon..he's using all 3 of us women....and frankly I feel he wouldn't want to do that work it would take to fix things.
Let along his 3 BIG issues.
I hate the sin but Love the man.....Feb our Divorce is final....what do I do what do you think????????

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If there is physical violence involved, I think definately go to Plan B right away. Read the section on this here on the MB website.

As for money and your child being EN, I guess so in a way sure. However, it seems like you (both of you) are on an emotional rollercoaster right now and you both need a break from it (each other) to gain some perspective.

Can you take a vacation from him/the situation for a week or so? It may help clear your thoughts.

I'm no expert. I recommend talking with Steve Harley about what to do in your situation.
I'm really not sure what to advise you regarding drugs, 2 affairs, and physical abuse. You may/should? talk to a lawyer as well.

Sorry I can't be more helpful.

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Thank you aanast2
It's so hard to know if your doing the Right thing,ya know!? I love this man hate what he's turned into.
The only reason were behind in the bills is because he was out on the town with the OW...Taking them on trips ect.I was a work at home mom(day care)and couldn't pay all the bills on my own.He Told me to Leave,he at that time wanted to move one of the OW in.
He brought one over kissing and even threatened to have sex with her in our livingroom if I didn't leave that night.
So now it's him and the bills/I have already filed but hope to not have to go through with this divorce.The judge ordered Him to pay those bills..he's mad at that.
So legally i don't have to give him any money But...he wants it (since I'm screwing him over,he thinks)to get him back on his feet again.
If things don't turn around Feb/March will be divorced.
I haven't done the phone counsling yet...how long does it take to get an appointment ...anyone know???
I'm thinken plan B too...gosh I need a vaction bad,no way to get away <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

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I'm steaming right now....really need to vent!!!!

My parents live(were i'm staying) down the road a few miles away from our old home.Ken and Marcy normally Tan at another tanning place closer to our old house.Well,I walked into my tanners and the OW was sitting waiting for my husband to get out from his bed.The lady at the counter asked if I knew Ken(since our last name was the same).
I said yes it's my husband(Marcy smirked)...The gal was like Really!?
Ya were in the middle of a divorce because he's cheating on me with her over there and another girl......Becareful he may try to pick up up next!!
Marcy's smirk stopped
She asked me if I wanted to see him since he was just coming out...I said No thank you,it would be a waist of my time he's an idiot.
Before coming in I saw his car...thought it was his new sports car,But thought I was seeing things...since he claimed he was in Chicago this week.Caught him in yet another lie...he told me the car was not going to be titled in his name until After the divorce that way I couldn't have it.Well it's got his tags on it!!!!!!! I'm gonna go after it now
He called me on his cell and was all nice to me...but I did some big LB,I couldn't hold it back.I asked him to pick which place he was going to tan at because I didn't want to run into him and @###%$%$#$#$%!!!!! And how dare he Lie to me about the car...then I hung up on him.
He has two cars I drive my parents....I have our baby.
WHat a butt head!!!!

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I'm starting to write my plan B letter,I'll post it before I send it to him.Should I send it through the mail or give it to him?
I'm just to the end of my rope.....he called me back last night.
The only thing he had to say was "Mary,I have already lost you!"
I told him no he hasn't...he needed to leave the Ow and work on us,or yes he will have lost me forever.

"what does that mean in guy talk I've already lost you?!!!!!!"
Any ideas?

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by BetrayedByMyBestFriend:
<strong>"what does that mean in guy talk I've already lost you?!!!!!!"
Any ideas?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am a male BS. What he meant is he feels he has trying his best and lost hope !. My laptop battery is low and no power in my area due to storm. Later ... -rh-

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It takes about a week or two (usually) to have an appointment with Steve Harley. It depends, though, and sometimes there are earlier dates. I recommend calling right away. It really helps and makes you feel better.

As for the Plan B letter, definately talk to Steve before sending it.

It sounds like you are very angry (deservedly so) and are LBing quite a bit.

According to the MB site, you should not LB during Plan A, become a safe place for your WS to return to, and once you can't do it anymore, then Plan B.

However, every case is different, so maybe you should Plan B now. I don't know. I recommend calling Steve.

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to BetrayedBymyBestFriend! It sounds like your H is using guilt tranference! The other thing is his abuse of drugs,abuse, affairs. Unless he is willing to go into rehab, this could be almost impossible to recover. First, there is no excuse for taking abuse. You do not deserve this. It goes way beyond an affair. And if he abuses you, it will roll onto the children also. They will be victims and caught in the middle, unable to fend for themselves. In My opinion, he cannot just give up the OW to get you back.He would have to get treatment for drugs, anger management and many other therapy needs. He has chosen this way. But an addict is out of control also and can't change without treatment. which of course, he has to recognize his problems and want help. And you need to be careful that you may be an enabler! Not to hurt you with saying that, but it's true we can be enablers without therapy to help you as well. Can you go for therapy to help you make your decisions based on rational thinking?
To protect yourself and children, please try. Let me say I've been there. And I did get counseling for years! So I'm not painting anyone with a brush that I've not experienced. Fortunate for me, my H has no addictions other than liking to think the grass is greener. But he's turning around and being very cooperative and trying hard to show love and is faithful now. Back in church, ect. But counseling was a great benefit to me.
God bless and will pray for you, Ladylou

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It sounds like you are very angry (deservedly so) and are LBing quite a bit.

I know,I didn't think it would be this Hard not too.He just says the things that really hurt..and seems to enjoy throughing the affairs in my face.
He called last night when he had been drinking...while driving to a friends house.
He told me.Since we left our place,it is not right for him to have to pay for the bills and child support..that he was going to take me back to court.
He told me flat out IF YOU do not help pay until the lease ends for our old place I want NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU!! You [censored]*n B****!!
I asked him why it had to be about money.
You would toss your family away because of the ow and bills.
I need to go I can't be talked to his way.
Mary I don't want you, you f**** ****
I hung up.
Now his mail is being sent here.. According to the MB site, you should not LB during Plan A, become a safe place for your WS to return to, and once you can't do it anymore, then Plan B.

I know LB it's so hard when he's sooooo rude to me.I'll make an appointment today.....

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It sounds like your H is using guilt tranference!

Is that why he's Blaming me for EVERYTHING? What is guilt tranference...?
I know he has been drinking more,partying more,I look online at his cell phone account..and he's been talking to both ow back to back.He can't tell I do this.

Unless he is willing to go into rehab, this could be almost impossible to recover. First, there is no excuse for taking abuse. You do not deserve this. It goes way beyond an affair. And if he abuses you, it will roll onto the children also. They will be victims and caught in the middle, unable to fend for themselves. In My opinion, he cannot just give up the OW to get you back.He would have to get treatment for drugs, anger management and many other therapy needs. He has chosen this way. But an addict is out of control also and can't change without treatment. which of course, he has to recognize his problems and want help. And you need to be careful that you may be an enabler! Not to hurt you with saying that, but it's true we can be enablers without therapy to help you as well. Can you go for therapy to help you make your decisions based on rational thinking?

I agree..He would need to get help for all of that.I think I hope he hits bottom...in the past he wanted to get help,he would talk about it.But when I said lets do it...put you in rehab,he always got out of it Ohh I can't too many bills can't because it would take too long.
I Probly am a enabler.....I always feel like I need to help him...is there somewhere on this site I can read about it!!??

But he's turning around and being very cooperative and trying hard to show love and is faithful now. Back in church, ect. But counseling was a great benefit to me.

LadyLou That is wonderful News!!!!!!!
God bless all of you I will talk to Steve soon...does anyone know if he excepts insurance I know the counslers around here are covered under our insurance/

Thank you guys

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Redhat...Thank you for answering my question..from a mans point of view...any ideas on what I should be saying or doing right now??

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Betrayed,

I've been on this site for a while...over 4000 posts in fact, but most of the time I am on the EN board. I am currently counseling with Steve....it isn't that hard to get appointments quickly if your schedule is flexible....but you shouldn't have to wait more than a week for sure!I do suggest you post on the EN board if you want more feedback....the Infidelity board is good too.

First please let me say that you should not be doing a plan A at this point....why? because it takes a lot of energy and time....time that will be wasted on a spouse who is not able to respond because of his other issues. Those addictions and abusive actions need to be dealt with first and before any Plan A should even be started.

I have no doubt in my mind....that Steve will want you to consider your safety FIRST. There is no way in h*ll he is going to tell you that you can safely do a Plan A right now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He has many issue's abuse,drugs,and affairs.I ended up moving out and he has supervised visits with son.Court ordered,I know I know I need to get rid of him he is way out there...but until the divorce IS final I can't Totally stop trying at least.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is hard to understand why you still want this guy....but I do understand how powerful love is, but if you must try something....try something that will get him in rehab or anger management classes...both preferably....until then...it is unsafe and unadvisable to do a Plan A, and the outcome for success is practically zero when these addictions are still in place.

I hate to say these words of discouragement when I know you are hanging on to any shred of hope that is left to you....that maybe, just maybem, there is something YOU can do to fix this. But the truth is there isn't....not right now. That doesn't mean there never will be...but right now, and until the other issues are under control...you must be strong enough endure life without him. You are not just protecting yourself, but your child.

Please take care and be safe. hugs.

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Thank you Star Fish,

You advice and guidence is very appreciated.Whats very sad after reading about enabling.I have been doing that I tried and tried with all my heart still am trying to make him happy,there were times I resented him for it....because while trying to focas on him I lost myself,I beleived what he said to me after hearing all the verbal abuse.And understand now* what damage was done,he has no respect for anyone and has the Bal*s to dish out abuse,and thinking the world revolves around him.Rages of anger...he has become so missrable I can see inside the fear/hurt/addictions and want to reach out and help him.
Just like you said He needs to get help the issue's are so long.
Sexual abuse(one time)as a child by a cousin..he has never told to anyone but me.
Drug use and porn at age 12
On and off drugs/porn all through high school.
Then when we got started dating again he stopped everything...for 3 yrs.
Then it started back into drugs sfter the loss of our first baby.Porn (that he hid from me)...abuse verbal and violent(tried choking me)pushing.
Then he would romanticly sweep me off my feet...acting like a saint then 6months later it would start all over again.
When I found the porn in July-02 there was also Teen porn...of course it said on the front cover 18yr old girls...well they looked 12/15yrs old trainer bras pre-teen stuff.
Flat chested..littl girl underwear.
His excuse that they came in packs and that was what they had.
Anyway..i'm rambling sorry
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
What I see as a problem for him ever hitting bottom is his family.....(as long as I stop enabling him too)and of course the OW.
They have ALWAYS BABYED HIM,Now there paying most of his bills and attorney fee's while he plays.
They tell him I should have been more submissive,how dare I keep his son at my new home not letting him take him...WS COULD NEVER BE A THREAT TO HIM.Even though he went to jail for 3 days after choking me.
They think Ow is nice because she gave him a car,and will not speak to me no contact since they emailed me back in sept-02.
They have only seen there grandson once since he was born...(out of state)
I know I'm holding onto threads here....he will not address the issue's since he doesn't have to.

huGS,

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

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Betrayed,

The saddest posts I answer....are the ones where one spouse is involved in addiction or abuse of some kind. I wish that the concepts here could help people in that situation....but the real truth is that only the abuser can change him/herself....and as their spouse...nothing we can do will fix them.

Please seek counseling on your own. Yes, I am certain you are correct on the enabling issues...and that is such an unhealthy pattern for you in your young life. Where did you learn that it was okay for someone to treat you this way? You learned this somewhere Mary. I am here to tell you that it is not okay. You deserve someone who will love and cherish you....not someone you fear and mistrust. Someone who will be faithful to you and be a good father for your son.

Even bad relationships are painful to end. Please get some personal counseling to help you make the decisions to change your life. You may not believe me, but the day when you don't understand how you could love someone who would hurt you this way....is not as far away as you think.

God bless you and keep you safe. hugs!

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Please seek counseling on your own. Yes, I am certain you are correct on the enabling issues...and that is such an unhealthy pattern for you in your young life. Where did you learn that it was okay for someone to treat you this way? You learned this somewhere Mary. I am here to tell you that it is not okay. You deserve someone who will love and cherish you....not someone you fear and mistrust. Someone who will be faithful to you and be a good father for your son.

I have often thought how I could have put up with this***How did I let myself get into this situation!?
I come from a Good home...no one abusive..my dad wasn't the most loving person in the world,very busy working..and hunting.My mom a stay at home mom still is had her ups and downs with depression.Both were divorced from there first marriages(to other people) and then met each other.
I never thought my WS would ever lash out at me do these type of things when we were dating/and in our early stages of marriage.
In the past year he was diagnosed with Narcissistic personality disorder...along with a few borderline issue's.
I know there's no excuse for his behavior,I just wish I could free my soul from him.
Now the healing begins!

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I gotta good laugh out of this one <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
One of Kens OW CAlled here looking for him...3 times tonight.Finally I told her look he's not here,like I told you before he's dating other women too call Star.
(ow)Well I don't have her number!!
Sorry can't help you Ow...
click

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Maybe things are starting to finally click in the first OW head!!!
I just thought that was funny he must be with the other other women <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

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<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Need to VENT!!
I'm in plan B,And have made up my mind that I will not think* about working on saving our marriage any longer..until Ken deals with all the addictions!! Which may never happen...SO I'M MOVEN ON.....I have had it...I have no other choice.
I do so good,when I don't have to deal with him.
Please Help me think of what actions to take now.Since I am in Plan B.
Differant situations,I don't know how to handle..HELP!!
Yesterday I was shopping at the mall...christmas shopping with my little boy.I was walking and looked and there was Ken Marcy and her 2 children.Ken tried to talk to me and see his son,I kept walking.He hasn't come to see him in over a week now...he has no excuses he's too busy with his life.
He was carrying her oldest on his shoulders it just Breaks my Heart. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
Did I do THE right THING keep walking...not give him or OW the time of day??
Another thing is he stopped by last night with her in the car,said he had bought Kieran a coat..I told him Just pay child support I'll pick out the clothes.I don't need your girlfriends picking out my sons clothes.
Then shut the door,I haven't taken any of his calls...
I'M SO UPSET....I had two people call me saying they saw Ken with another women,people I haven't talked with in yrs!!!
Then I explained were divorcing ect...but still it's so desrispectful(sp?)of him to parade OW around town <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
I feel that everywhere I go I am going to run into him..I swear I have bad luck.

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