My WW recently moved back in. She has verbally agreed to utilize the 4 Rules of a Successful Marriage (from SAA), but I haven't seen any effort on her part to actually do anything other than call and tell me where she is and where she's going frequently.

Am I just going back into another Plan A in hopes of pulling her back into our M by meeting her EN's and being a really nice guy that isn't bringing up the A anymore? That's so hard when it's not reciprocated and I feel like complete honesty and openess doesn't completely exist in her yet (ever?).

It's hard to totally Plan A her when I don't feel all the facts are out, yet she won't discuss the A anymore...she just wants to move forward, except I feel like I'm the only one doing anything proactive. I do believe she has ended it with him.

She gets annoyed when I want to schedule 15 hours a week together. She hasn't taken the time to sit down with me and review the POJA (and use it) for a couple of critical things. I'm always bringing it up/encouraging... will I just lose it at some point?

Any suggestions? Is this just a function of her withdrawls from OM and her fear of facing me because the hurt she caused?

Is it normal for wayward spouses to be pretty cold when the A is over? Shouldn't they do everything in their power to make marriage their number one priority...or am I just dreaming?

I yam,

Looking back at your old posts, your W did a lot of the same things mine did, lied then lied some more when I confronted her with the evidence. My instincts never proved me wrong but I guess you've learned that as well.

I think we've all been there before where we feel like our WS isn't doing their share and that we are having to do all the work. It's not a good thing to feel but I do believe you have a lot going for you right now.

My W seems to be doing the same thing but has decided not to move back in, is living with family friends instead. What I initially learned of her A I had to drag out of her to admit what I already knew to be true and she was extremely ticked off at me but I persisted. However, I got much more out of her when I backed off a bit, didn't try to push so hard. She slowly came out of her shell. But, like you, I already knew the truth and just wanted her to fess up.

We talked about it recently, after she told me that she ended it with OM, wanted to go to joint marriage counseling, and see if there was something left in the marriage. That was a major turning point for me but looking back she was the only one who could make that decision to open up.

She told me that by me constantly asking questions she felt that I was pushing her so hard and that she was trying the best she could. Basically she said, "I've told you what happened, gave it up with OM and want to go back to counseling. I know that isn't fast enough for you but isn't that at least something!"

She had a point, I had ignored the progress she had made and continuously pushed for more action because of all that she had done to me. She felt that whatever she did wasn't good enough and was, therefore, slower to offer more.

So I would say that you have several good things going for you and not to overlook those:

1. She is living in the house with you. If she didn't want to or didn't want anything to do with you, should wouldn't be there. She is at least open to the idea of "you".

2. She is at least verbally agreeing to consider the SAA four rules. She could do just the opposite and refuse to even talk about it. At least she's open to these things. You're doing good here.

3. She is calling you and telling you where she is. Do you remember the times when she wouldn't do that and wished that she would?

So, hang in there, you are off to a good start. I know it's hard and you want to "be there" already but just stay focused. But, at the same time, stay vigilant, you know what signs to look for if something is fishy. I know, the trust issue is a big one.

You have mentioned the 15 hours a week, she probably feels mentally exhausted and frustrated right now. She has done a lot, more than what some of us are getting from our WS's! Instead of saying "we need to talk at least 15 hours a week according to this plan," just try to talk without having a goal of hours in mind.

Make it a point to talk to her after supper or whenever. Take an indirect approach and she probably will be more at ease without having a schedule to worry about. Try "dating" her, fall back to what you did when you first met and remember how you learned so much by not even asking.

I'd suggest slowing down with her a little bit, try not to push her as that will only come across to her that you are trying to control her and that you think she cannot make up her own mind.
It will raise her defenses and not be productive.

I know you have resentment for all the lies and I'm not saying for you to be a doormat, but, if this marriage is going to work and if the EA/PA is truly over, those things will have to be worked out. She is going to have to earn your trust and, from her track record, doesn't seem to be very good at it. If you see that she is being truthful, then it's up to you to decide whether or not to give her that chance, to open yourself up to the possibility of getting hurt.

Trust me, I learned that the hard way. Be there for her but let her work things out in her head and I bet you'll start seeing some changes. If you see yourself getting upset, take a break.

You are on the right track, you are doing good and hang in there! You can do it but I know you are tired of all of this mess. Take it day by day, you know by now that you can't really tell what will happen tomorrow. And I hope that every tomorrow is a good one for you. Keep us posted.

<small>[ February 04, 2003, 09:40 PM: Message edited by: lost_in_Georgia ]</small>

Thanks Georgia! I really appreciate you taking the time to read my post(s) and for the thoughtful reply.

Your points and insights are well taken. I do appreciate your encouragement...which is what everyone on this board really needs from each other. So thanks.

I know I haven't done everything "right," and I know I haven't done everything "wrong" (whatever right and wrong is), and I also know that's true for my WW.

What I also know is that I truly love my wife, more than she'll probably ever understand, and it's that love that's enabling me to move forward and be a wonderful person to her right now, given all that's happened.

I still ask her to work with the ground rules we've agreed to, and I have my gut-wrenching anxiety moments, but lately, I've sure been able to do and be many of the nice things that were missing (and I missed doing/being) that lead up to the A.

As long as she continues to be honest and open with me, I suppose I can give her unconditional once again, regardless of the effort she's putting into our M right now and how she prioritizes "us" in her life right now.

I hope my sincere love will be infectious and she will be able to show me love again too.

Thanks for the well wishes.

----------
BS - 35 me
WS - 30
Married 3.5 years, known 7
D-Day 11/5/02
WS moved out 12/13/02
EA/daily contact ended 12/26/02...WW cut it off.
WS moved back in 1/26/03
We've been going to MC together and individually throughout the whole ordeal...even once before D-Day.

I hope that your sincere love does turn out to be infectious, hopefully you'll start seeing small signs soon.

Have you checked out any of the posts in the "In Recovery" area? Seems like a good bit more activity over there, even if you don't think you're in "recovery" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Good luck, let us know how you are doing.

Gentlemen:

It sounds like we have some vaguely similar situations. At least there seems to be some progress for you both!

One word for WW's return: POJA.

Don't want to hijack your thread, but thought I'd seek some help from you two "old vets":

My wife left for Germany to prepare for Bosnia this last Saturday. She didn't bother to call me for my birthday this Monday. I think she is actively trying not to encourage me at this time. It's tough depositing LU's when you're not talking. I figure she has to talk to me at some point, so I'm waiting it out. God waits with me.

She says her mind is made up about getting D. Of course, her mind was made up about being married a few years ago. We've had a rough two years (full time work, OT, school for me, Army for her), but nothing that would justify a D -- and she knows it.

She says, "Maybe I'm just being selfish." No kidding. Maybe too many people help Satan tear apart another family with the false promise of immediate happiness?

She'll be gone a year, so maybe her negative feelings will dissipate, and she can start to forgive and accept her own accountability for this breakdown. I'm not holding my breath -- but with God, all things are possible.

I also suspect she's having an EA with someone at her work, but I am not sure -- been a cop way too long (17 years) -- and I am sure she would deny it. I'm sure her public slant is "just friends."

This deployment will likely put a little crimp in this "friendship" EA, if there is one occurring. I'm sure there are plenty of someones up to the task of filling her EN's for her, if she'll let them. Still, even bird dogs don't want to have to track a scent for a whole year, you know?

She'll return in the third week of February, and then stay at her parents for three weeks. After that it's Bosnia until January. I doubt she'll contact me unless absolutely necessary -- unless she starts to miss me as time goes by (wasn't that a song?)

Do either of you have any ideas as to what LU's I can deposit while she's in Bosnia? I figure I'll send some care packages -- like favorite periodicals, a specially burned CD, favorite cookies, etc. I'll lay off on the R discussion, unless she brings it up. I think being away from her job, family, and me -- just might change a few things. Time is on my side, you know?

Otherwise, I've improved with my faith quite a bit and continue to grow. I'm still in touch with her family (they live nearby, and I am close with my nephews) without discussing my R with my W.

My W insists that I maintain my R with my godsons, and encourages my hunting with her father and brother-in law. (Cake and eating it, too? Or just confused?)

If W changes her mind about me writing her in Bosnia, should I send letters anyway? She may say she doesn't so I'm not encouraged (she feels guilty about leaving me, since there isn't a biblical justification for her actions -- especially now, since I have reaffirmed my relationship with Jesus) -- but I'm of the opinion that when deployed, letters from anyone are good...

Any other ideas? If so, let me know.

Thanks and God Bless!

Awake,

Good to hear from you and thanks again for the advice that you have passed on on one of my posts.

A belated happy birthday to you but I'm sure that would have meant a lot more from your wife. Perhaps she was busy but I would guess you are right, that she doesn't want to get your hopes up.

I've heard that from my wife so many times that it started to really tick me off. When something would happen and I'd get my hopes up, she would crash them down by saying "Well, I don't want to get your hopes up in case this doesn't work." Then she'd say "I'm sorry" when I told her that I was frustrated by all this. I finally told her to quit saying that, it just made it worse.

My W said for over a year that she wanted a divorce and once all the mess hit the fan she grew more emphatic in that. I think it was because she thought she had something (OM) waiting in the wings. Once that went away, at least I am pretty sure it did, she hasn't been saying the D word. Now she says things like moving from here but isn't sure where "I/we would go." Hey, at least she's including me as a possibility in her plans. Not much, but better than before.

So, with your wife it sounds kind of like mine. So she says her mind is made up, wants a divorce. Then why did she postpone finalizing it until after her return from Bosnia? She says "Maybe I'm being selfish" which I read as her mind isn't quite made up yet. Perhaps she is thinking she was somewhat hasty in filing but isn't really sure how or if she wants to backpedal out of that without giving up some type of control in your situation. After all, y'all are cops so I'm sure your nature is not to back down too quickly and not to let someone else get the jump on you.

What are the specifics of the divorce? No fault/irreconcilable differences? In GA there is usually +/- 30 days after filing before it is finalized. As she isn't going to be here and apparently isn't going to sign them, would she have to refile because of the amount of time that would have passed? Have lawyers been involved?

The subject of D came up with my W last week (we had a couple beers to help out) and she said she just wasn't sure if she "wanted to close this book" after seven years of knowing me. But, I think she is scared to go much further than "maybe" because she is honestly not sure if she can commit. She did say that she wanted to be sure that she was doing the right thing but (there's always a "but") her mind really hadn't changed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

The bright side, if it can be called that, is that your W agreed to wait on signing the papers and making them official. I honestly don't know what to think about that as I am in a similar boat and wouldn't want to read too much into it. But for now, just take it with a grain of salt and realize that (for whatever reason) she agreed to postpone a decision.

-------------
Maybe too many people help Satan tear apart another family with the false promise of immediate happiness? -------------

Yep, I agree with that.

-------------
She'll be gone a year, so maybe her negative feelings will dissipate, and she can start to forgive and accept her own accountability for this breakdown. I'm not holding my breath -- but with God, all things are possible. -------------

Well, then you've got no other choice than to wait for a year. I know that would be a bitter pill for me to swallow and would be tempted to just give up instead of being in limbo. But don't do it, don't do things that you'll look back on later with regret unless you know that you've honestly done everything you could do.

You mentioned that you suspect an EA at work. Well if there is one, the one best thing going for you to ending that is her extended leave from that environment. That's a positive thing and forces her to get out of that. You're right, it would be too difficult to maintain that from another continent.

I'm hoping that you might start seeing some changes with your W while she is away from everything that she knows. Sure, she'll have plenty to keep her busy, but I'd guess that those nights are going to start to get lonely for her. At this point, you come in.

Definitely send the care packages that you mentioned and lay off on the R discussion for now. Act like you're dating again. Sure you have that history and it's hard as hell to do, but just remember how you got her in the first place.

Send her letters, cards, ask her how she's doing, what's she's doing, what does she think about it over there. Show interest in her life. Tell her about what you've been doing, what's been going on. It'll give her something to talk about to you as well, maybe give her some reminders of things that she always loved about you. Be her best friend and a pleasant reminder of what she has/had/could have again when she comes back.

Go hunting with your in-laws, it'll be a great thing to talk about with her. Tell her how good a time you had. Tell her funny stories about what her dad did when x happened when you were over there. She probably thinks good about her family, include yourself in those pleasant memories. It'll give her good thoughts about you and her family and the more good thoughts you can give her the better. She might slowly lower her defenses.

Try to avoid long letters expressing frustration about everything, it will likely either make her sad or angry and neither is good. Whatever you do, try to think of doing things that will stay in her mind as a good memory when she goes to sleep.

If you start getting signs that she's warming up to you......let us know, we'd love to hear it!

------------
If W changes her mind about me writing her in Bosnia, should I send letters anyway? ------------

Definitely! What's she going to do, put "Return to Sender" on them? No, she'll read them out of curiosity but I'll bet she'll be glad to get them even if she doesn't know it.

In the meantime, you've got a year to do something. Guess it's time to start doing what you've always wanted to do. Take up bungee-jumping, restore an old car, become a professional banjo player, wander the earth like a nomad while playing bongo drums... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Anything you want to do, the sky's the limit! Now's the time!

Someone posted something on that, take up something new and get that mystery back into your relationship. Make her wonder what the heck is going on with this guy, make her interested in what you're doing. That's how you probably were in the beginning, there was that "something new" there, that mystery. That's how the OM came into the picture as well.

What are your thoughts on when she is back for a few weeks at her parent's house?

Here's a suggestion, if it is an option for you:

Get into a situation where you focus on doing your best plan A and let your MC provide the recovery plan (i.e. coaching) for everything else.

Letting the edjucating and accountability for progress come from a third party can make things much easier and minimize the "am I doing it right" second-guessing.

For me the "getting the facts out" as been immensly helped by allowing SH lay out the plan for that.

Now, not everyone has the same results, but SH (and other counselors) can help in a wide variety of scenarios.

Prior to her moving back in, did you discuss EXACTLY what needed to be done? Did you discuss the 4 Rules of a Successful Marriage and how to apply them?