Lost:

Didn't want to hijack the last thread any further, so I started this new one.

Yesterday, I had lunch with my Pastor. He knows every sordid detail from beginning to end, since I had to confess my sins against my wife, in order to have the strength to repent.

My Pastor told me he was pleased to see my strength grow in God as much as it has in the last few weeks, and we agreed that my obligation is to God, and that to win my W back meant loving her. That simple. No more, no less. Harder road than we'd hoped, though...

Today, I intercepted several emails from her police partner, sister, as well as her new lover, also a cop. The partner confirmed that WW admitted to playing kissy-face with the OM.

The OM sent an email, too. The OM email essentially espouses his love for my WW, and how horny he is -- and can't wait to perform oral sex on her. Sounds like a really classy fellow.

The FBI would call that a clue.

It seems even her kind old sister-in law is aware of the relationship, although she would probably deny it on a stack of bibles, lest someone think that she wasn't a good Christian, enabling her EN-deprived sister to further debase herself in sin.

So, the secret affair isn't a secret. Once the secret is out, it's hard to backpedal, isn't it? The light of truth tends to repel the dark lie, too. Can't hide it, so no more demands on me.

I confronted by WW and OM via email. In a kind, loving and gentle fashion, I advised them I was aware of their attraction, care and physical activity. I invited both of them to talk with me.

I told WW (abbreviated): "I know. I understand. You should talk to me. I know I need to listen. Set aside some time when you get back home from Germany so we can talk. God Bless."

Now, she has two weeks to sweat it out.

WW's planning some lame defense, I am sure. She knows God's coming and He's bringing guilt, shame, embarrassment and humility with Him. It's God's job to humble her. It's my job to forgive her and love her. The postponing of the divorce really buys me time to show her.

As soon as she gets the email, I expect her stomach will sink. It will be hard not to envision the worst case scenario upon her return. That just can't be fun, and they'll realize their days together are numbered, even as my divorce ticks down.

I just reaffirmed my commitment to God yesterday. Nothing has changed by obligation to God and my marriage, or my desire to atone for my own sins against my wife.

By setting an example, perhaps she can admit, confess, repent and atone for her sins. There is only one right thing to do here -- reconcile. She can't claim the moral high ground anymore, insisting she's some innocent victim. Yes, she suffered from neglect, criticism and unmet EN's. But I didn't leave her for not meeting mine. Biblically, unmet EN's just aren't grounds to divorce. Adultery has some biblical grounds, and last I checked, that's now my call.

I just have to love her, like I promised, when I was courting and wooing her. This OM has usurped my obligation at her invitation. I couldn't have met her EN's. She didn't have any left! OM was meeting them for me! She was lying through her teeth, this sweet Baptist ministers' daughter! No wonder I couldn't do anything right the weeks before she left!

She's running out of room to run. You can run from the truth, but you can't hide.

As Steve Harley told me, "You want to get her in a space where she has to tell you, 'I want a divorce becase of the way you USED TO treat me.'"

What better way to start that step than with some understanding forgiveness? If she makes the turn into the light, understanding that for us, there is only ONE RIGHT THING to do -- I can probably handle the rest. I have so much peace and joy now -- God timed this discovery perfectly, just when I was strong enough to handle it!

California is a no-fault state. We can postpone further proceedings, but refiling is not required unless the papers go stale -- in 5 years. Once the truth comes out, and it will -- she might even end up back home for a little bit. Bosnia definitely puts a crimp in oral sex, too.

This news is pretty encouraging to me. She's not in a position to make any real demands, and if she denies it -- I'll show her the emails.

If OM doesn't call me, it's safe to say he doesn't want to admit anything wrong. He'd end up having to admit he's horny, and not in love with her. He's got more girlfriends than Hugh Hefner. WW is just a notch in his gun.

Life is good.

Well, got the email from WW last night. Got some expected righteous indignation about invading her "privacy" -- which certainly doesn't exist in a marriage -- no secrets. I certainly don't owe her "privacy" when she wants to leave me and take half of our stuff.

I sent a reply that essentially said, "Like it or not, you're still legally and spiritually married. You are committing adultery, even if all your worldly friends say you aren't. You lied about the affair, which caused me to move in a certain direction. Now that I know, we need to talk. I look forward to it."

I doubt I'll hear from her for awhile. Let's see what happens when she gets back to the USA.

Life is good.

God bless!

Unless your WW is a sexual addict like my ex-WW was, she is going to feel the old 'what goes around, comes around' when her OM 'soulmate' reveals his true self and she realizes she has been used by him big time. Very few OM truly fall in love with a WW, most only want them because it's exciting to savor the 'fruit of another', and normally dump them when they become too much trouble by demanding more than sex and infrequent companionship. She's going to learn a very painful lesson about adultery.

I pray that's true. She's in Germany, and comes back on 02-21-03. WW is here until 03-18-03 and then it's Bosnia. It wouldn't surprise if WW catches OM cheating before she leaves -- or OM breaks it off with her when she's Bosnia.

Changes the whole approach now that I know the truth. In Plan B. No contact. May not even entertain speaking with during her 3-week return. There's nothing to talk about for divorce matters until she returns to Bosnia.

Her reply was great: righteous indignation. How dare I invade her privacy! Are all WW in the fog that lame?

Thanks for the support!

God Bless!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Her reply was great: righteous indignation. How dare I invade her privacy! Are all WW in the fog that lame?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's a last ditch deflection because they know they have lost control of the situation and the power to manipulate the BS and make him/her feel bad for alleged wrongs they have suffered at the hands of the BS. And probably more than anythithing else, they hate the fact that now the BS can tell others the truth of the A and the WS is now going to be viewed by others as solely responsible for the disintegration of the M.

This goes with my current situation. I recently talked with my WW about my list of questions that had been avoided for weeks. One she refused to answer was providing a call detail for the past few months to verify that no contact with OM was maintained. He lives in same town, so even a trip to the store could be a meeting.

Her response to this question was that she would feel like a kid if she had to provide this information. My thinking is that if there is nothing to hide, this would be a great opportunity to build trust and that this would not be a problem. What do you all think?

She's lying to you. Statements about being treated like a child are an attempt to manipulate you into thinking you're being domineering.

There is NO SUCH THIS AS TRUST IN A MARRIAGE. You need TRANSPARENCY, not trust. This, of course, relates to trust as to affairs. There are other trust areas, but not as to affairs.

The people who are the most susceptible to affairs are the ones who don't think it can happen. Morals, religion, baloney. It is selfishness that creates affairs, as the WS decides they want any need filled NOW.

Men and women are rarely friends. Friendships between opposite sexes, particularly intimate ones, can easily lead in PA's. That's why the bible says that young women are to seek counsel from older women, etc.

If your spouse says, "Don't you trust me?" -- it's a smokescreen. They have already created an intimate friendship with a potential suitor, and are gearing up to make a break.

Read Steve Harley's comments about it. He says he doesn't trust his wife, and she doesn't trust him. As a result, neither of them have the opportunity to have a PA...

God Bless!
You wouldn't have asked the question, if you trust really existed.

Awake,

Just checked in, saw that you had posted.

Coffeeman's description of your W's indignation is great...

It's a last ditch deflection because they know they have lost control of the situation and the power to manipulate the BS and make him/her feel bad for alleged wrongs they have suffered at the hands of the BS. And probably more than anythithing else, they hate the fact that now the BS can tell others the truth of the A and the WS is now going to be viewed by others as solely responsible for the disintegration of the M.

With my W's EA/PA, it was the light of day that killed it. I was very persistant in checking up on where she was and everytime I found out something, I'd let her know. This, of course, drew a negative reaction (Lot's of f-you phone calls from her) and was when we were still at each other's throats.

And, like others here have said, she threw up the old "Don't you trust me??!!" thing which, after a while, I learned was an admission of guilt. When she was confronted by OM's wife, I think that's when everything fell apart. Also, she had learned that her friends and family were not as supportive in what she was doing.

Early on, she made the comment that no one supported her. Well of course they don't!! You're fooling around on your husband! I think she just felt that it was ok as long as no one knew about it.

Basically, my WW's phases went like this...

1. "Why did you marry me?" "Why do you love me?" She was not getting her EN's at this point. I ignored it.

2. "I'm not sure if I want to stay married." Basically no EN's were being met by me. I ignored it.

3. "I'm moving out for a while, I want out of the marriage." She cheated on me. Me meeting her EN's was so far gone. I finally paid attention.

4. "F-YOU! Don't you trust me! F-You for checking up on me! I'm getting an f-ing lawyer!! It's f-ing over!!" Oh-boy, I'd better do something here. I start looking at the internet, run across MB.

5. "Hey, how are you?" and "I want to do counseling but am not sure if I still want to be married." Short little conversations, mostly negative but not all. She was starting to be eaten up with guilt. Plan A for me during this time.

6. "Well I gave up [OM]" and starts re-enterring my life.

7. "Can I come back?"

Well, that was it in a nutshell. I'm not sure what #8 will be but guess I will find out!

So, since you have the evidence and have confronted her, she will probably start letting that guilt get to her which is a good thing. You probably haven't seen too many signs of that and neither had I until last night. I think your email reply was a good move, sounded calm and collected and to the point. Keep that up.

My W asked if she could move back in Saturday, I agreed. We had a good talk, agreed there is still a lot of work to do. At one point she said something that irritated me, I went outside, smoked a cigarette, came back in and she said "Let's talk about that because I can tell you are ticked." Wow! She has insight after all!

Anyways, for the first time she cried saying she didn't feel that she deserved me in that I had been so nice to her, etc. and she felt all of this guilt because of the A. It was the first honest apology I had seen. It seems that she's starting to act like a lot of the WS's feel as described in other posts. Those posts have given me a good insight into what my W might be thinking.

So, awake, is your plan to still stay in contact with W while she is in Bosnia in the form of care packages, letters, etc.? Or, as I would imagine, is it dependent on what happens in the next week or so?

I think you're on the right track while she is here for a few weeks, might as well lay low and let her stew on it for a while. Let her come to her senses or something.

Honestly, I don't see what else you could do to accelerate any positive feelings from her.

I know I couldn't with my W and had to (patiently?) wait for her to make the next move as I had played all my cards.

Does her family know about the A? Have you talked to her friends or have any idea if she is playing herself as the victim to them?

Hang in there and lay low for a while. Hopefully you'll see some type of positive sign here. Keep us updated!

Lost:

I intercepted a couple more of her emails. She's spinning like a top.

I guess she still doesn't get that while our divorce is pending, her account is community property. She's scrambling to unforward her military emails to her home email address and started deleting the messages. I already saved them and forwarded copies to my Pastor and some cop friends she doesn't know. That way, in case WW and OM go more wonky, there's a clear paper trail no matter how she tries to cover tracks.

I know the OM. He knows me. He's a big time player who is probably cheating on her as we speak. WW is really deluded if she thinks he's going to wait for her while she's deployed. Bad things happen when you lie. "There are none so blind as those who will not see."

I haven't told her father directly, as I think it's best she do it. I did some pastoral counseling with her mother, but I'd bet her mother leaked it by now. Her sister, a deacon in their church, was aware of WW's relationship, but claims she was in a "don't ask, don't tell" mode as to its depth. Since WW is blood to this church family, I expect they will do as best they can to rationalize/minimize her behavior at first. They have already conceded that her filing for divorce has no biblical grounds -- but are still housing her for show -- as WW spends a lot of time at OM's house. WW lies as to where she is going, and the family doesn't ask, in an effort to create plausible deniability.

OM just called me and admitted they're best friends and that's he's in love with her. He claims he'll step away if she asks him to. He's says he's been in love with her since late November. I know it's been longer than that. I told him his involvement with her contributed to the breakdown of my marriage, and that he's doing spiritual harm to her. He said he didn't know anything about that. He hung up.

So we have tacit confirmation from him that it's now physical. They just don't get it that God knows the truth, even if they are playing games with it.

I intend to effect a Plan B no contact effort immediately. I have nothing to tell her while she is in a fog and thinks she's in love. The fact of her relationship is a complete lie to her family and me about how she felt in the first place.

No contact with her while her affair is pending.

Lost:

Her family knows about it, now. I did some pastoral counseling with MIL, and asked that she keep it confidential -- to let WW tell her father what's up. She's worried -- because she's been lying about the nature of their relationship AGAIN.

I don't expect much from them, just because their ministers. They talk a good game, but are pretty good enablers within their own family. Only her brother and brother in-law assert that WW is just plain wrong about this process. Dad pretends to be strict, but caves in -- Mom is sweet but an enabler -- and sister is a hypocrite who will support her sister's desires -- so long as she gets to stay friends with her. I don't expect any spiritual accountability coming from them -- but God does a job of that without their help.

I should have told the OM, "If you love her, why don't you ask her father if you can court her, like a good man does?" OM would have just hung up.

God's shining a bright light of truth on the whole thing now. WW has been entertaining this close friendship with OM for at least a year. I suspected since last February, but couldn't the goods. Until now.

If you asked them, they'd suggest that they fell in love by accident. I assure you, OM knew exactly what he was doing.

The secrecy of the affair can be used to bind the lovers together. Once the secrecy is gone from the mission, they start to learn about each other -- and realize everyone has warts. He's a knucklehead, so she probably feels superior to her.

WW is starting an affair with someone she can't monitor while she is gone. He just has to call her regularly to make it look good, and use his hand to cover up the new squeeze's mouth.

I figure I have until Jan 2004 or longer, for this to play itself out. It feels good to know it's not all on me anymore...

Awake,

I'm sorry to hear that you're in this position but it sounds like you've got your head on as straight as it can be.

From what you mentioned, it looks like your W is definitely in a bad place and is not going to be thinking very clearly at this time. With OM so much in the picture (I can't believe he called you and told you that) you aren't going to get very much. So, like you said, you might as well go for the Plan B--besides, the conditions (her being in Bosnia) almost force that.

Sounds like OM is a real charmer, probably knows just what to say to get what he wants. Hey, we're guys, we know how the game works but most of us (ourselves included) chose not to take advantage of someone when they are in a fragile emotional state (your W and mine). That makes us better people.

It looks like her family probably knows but just doesn't want to admit it to themselves as they might think that they "failed" somehow. Do you blame them or think that your family wouldn't act the same if the roles were reversed? Unfortunately, most families choose sides.

So, you seem resigned to the fact that you've done what you can do for now which I would tend to agree with. I was there too and, though I still felt bad about the situation, for some reason I had a sense of relief knowing that I didn't have complete control over anything. It wasn't that I had given up, but it just felt good to rest for a while and catch my breath.

Lay low, let her go overseas and, like you said, that thing with OM will probably fizzle out. The key at this point is to make sure she knows that she can turn to you (if you want this) when that happens. I would encourage you to keep contact to a minimum (bills, etc.) while she is still in the U.S. Once she goes to Bosnia, wait around a month or so and send her a care package. Just something small, see what (if any) response you get and go from there.

What have you done with your finances? Yes, while you are married any debts incurred are joint. Though I removed her name from my credit card when I found out about the A (and she did the same for her card), we are both still liable for each other's debts as we are married. The same goes with income (salaries, 401(k), income tax refund, etc.). You will have to get in touch with her for your IRS return so the financial aspects must be considered during her absence.

It looks like you're on the right track, have realized what your limitations are. Back off, let her OM go for it and when that fails, which it will, be there for her if you still want to be.

I'll be praying for you and hope that everything works out for you.

Lost:

Thanks for the advice. I think I'll just go completely dark for now. I will do NO Plan A behavior while OM is in the picture. I may not even return her calls right away if she does contact me. She's really not my wife, just someone who looks like her.

If the A fizzles while she's in Bosnia, great. If it continues after her return, great. The distance puts a damper on the oral sex, and if she engages in this activity while on active duty, she would dishonorably discharged. He'll play her for as long as he can, I'm sure. I don't see this fantasy going the distance, but one never knows.

The divorce can finalize according to her schedule, with her doing the work as to asset separation, as I refuse to participate in Satan's enterprise. If it fizzles and she seeks reconciliation, I will do as God commands me, forgive her and love her as I promised. If she doesn't, I will thank him for saving me from an unbeliever. I pray for her soul, as someone who knows the Word, but has rejected it. The bible doesn't allow divorce just because you're not happy at the moment. Marriages have highs and lows. Quitting is selfish, period.

In CA, we are only liable for joint debt until the date of separation. I am not counting on her contributing financially, now that she's been exposed as liar and adultress. Fortunately, I think I can do it myself if necessary.

As to her father, who is her Pastor, failure to exercise spiritual accountability flies in the face of his vocation. He's all hellfire and brimstone. I imagine this is a great struggle in any case. He cannot preach to others about sin and not hold his daughter accountable. As such, I expect his church to fizzle, too.

The negative impact to both families of WW's selfish decision is immense -- factually, spiritually and emotionally.
I pray that her entire family be reclaimed by God, and that her heart be convicted by the Holy Spirit.

God Bless!