On the thread "To Lacee" I promised a story about possessiveness that I went through with H. It is just ONE example out of Countless others. <P>To begin with I would like to mention the numberous gatherings and parties that we have had to leave because my H saw another man looking at me "lustfully" so to speak. At the beginning of the relationship, I found it flattering. But now, after 16 years I find it, well....mostly humiliating. At this point in my life, at the age of almost 39 and after 5 children, I consider myself an attractive woman. I am not concieted, it is due to the fact that... I WORKED EXTREMELY HARD TO GET HERE! I am proud of what I accomplished. Not only for my own self esteem, but to be beautiful for my H as well.<P>This past July, my H, my children and I, took our summer vacation to a lake that we frequent each year. We stay in a condo for a week each summer and enjoy the pool and jacuzzi there when we are not on the lake. Well, the evening before we were to come home from the vacation, the children decided they wanted to get in the pool after dinner. My H went in with them, but I, after being at the lake all day, decided to clean up and do my hair (Which by the way takes at least 1 1/2 hours to wash, dry, straighten, etc.) because after we arrived home in the morning I had to immediately rush off to a funeral. <P>When I finished doing my hair, I went out to the pool to watch the family. My H jumps all over me about how he "HAD" to watch the kids while I tried to make myself look beautiful. And by the way, "Why was I trying to make myself beautiful and for Who? Your kids want you in the pool with them. But you are too worried about how you look! Well, I am going inside. You do what you want! I hope that whoever you went to all that trouble for gets a chance to see you!" Then he continues... "Why do you take so much time doing that to your hair and make-up every day? Why don't you just pull it back into a ponytail or something?" He screeches. I answer, "Well, honey, do you want me to just let myself go and not take care of myself at all? Do you want me to NOT look good for you?" <P> ARGH!!!!!!! He knew that I had to go to the funeral in the morning and how rushed I was going to be and why I had to do it that night! I was SO ANGRY, that I just went inside, put on my suit and walked right back out and jumped in the pool with my kids. He sat on the couch in the condo looking out at us, drinking beer, and scowling. About a half hour later, we all got into the jacuzzi to warm up before coming inside. There were two gentlemen and 3 other children in the jacuzzi. One was the father of a little girl who had been playing with my daughter all afternoon and they had become friends. When I got in, the gentleman said to me, "Well, hello Ashlee's mother! I'm... so and so..." Ashlee had apparantly told him all about his parents earlier in the pool. Mind you... there were at least 12 people in this jacuzzi! Myself, and my 5 children included. We were talking casually about where we lived, how often we came to the lake....etc. Then, I told the kids, lets get inside. So, I got out of the jacuzzi, handed each child a towel as they got out and sent them inside. I turn around for the last childs towel and H is standing there. Just GLARING AT ME!!! I don't know what he is thinking. But we all go inside. He walks with me and immediately starts calling me names. "Slut!" "Whore!" "Are you enjoying strutting your stuff in front of those men?" WHAT???????? I could not believe that he was doing this when he INSISTED in the first place that I be out there! Anyway... this story is too long! We went inside and he continued in front of the children. I sent them to change and told him I would NOT argue with him about such a ridiculous thing and especially in front of the children! (He is criticizing me at this very moment I am writing this! GET ME OUT OF HERE! Anybody live in UTAH? Sorry!) He continues calling me these names and the kids are shocked, and I am shocked and embarassed and then.... to make things horribly worse... he struts out to the Jacuzzi, muscles flexed (Forgot to tell you he is a bodybuilder! Scary huh?) and confronts the men that are relaxing there! He asks them if they enjoyed looking at his wife's breasts and etc! I WANTED TO DIE!!!! I slept on the floor in the childrens room that night needless to say. He eventually apologized and realized that he should be flattered if men look at me because I am HIS wife! Sigh... wow.... I hate thinking about that. But that is my humiliating story. I hope this gives some of you who have been following my dilema some insight to my fears. I would like to know if others have suffered this type of humiliating experience. Sorry... just needed to vent.... Whew!

WOAH!!!! No, never in my life experienced this. My husband is quite the opposite, very passive and quiet. It is hard to communicate with him because he does not express his feelings. I thought this was a bad quality, but the flip side of the pancake is that this aggressiveness would be extremely hard for me to handle.<P>Yes, girl, be very careful. It sounds as though you do need to deal with far more problems in your marriage than just your affair.<P>Good luck. Keep coming here for support.

Lacee,<BR>Please be careful. I've been in a similar situation. My husband is an alcoholic, who can be very mean. He has verbally abused me for stupid things but mostly when he was drunk. I'm still holding out hope that he comes home, but he will have alot of work to do once he gets here. <BR>Everyone here will support you.

Lacee,<P>Reading your post sent many thoughts and ideas through my head. One, your H seems very insecure, is that why he is a body builder? Second, he needs counseling as well. He would enjoy life much more if he wasn't so worried about losing you. That does seem to be the central theme doesn't it?<P>Of course he does need to worry about losing you doesn't he? If he keeps this up, you will be gone, emotionally if not physically.The most ironic thought I had is that knowledge of the affair may burst his bubble enough to acknowledge your marriage really does have problems and he is part of it. I'm not recommending that this is a certain outcome but it is a possibility. <P>Finally, I wonder if he already suspects the affair? Did this event happen when you were emotionally withdrawing from him prior to the affair, during the affair, or after the affair. If so then he strongly suspects or might even know. <P>Don't have any real advice for you, but I have seen men and women get this type of treatment from their spouse and I don't know how they can take it. <P>Please seek some counseling for this whole mess and if you could get spouse into it I suspect he would really benefit from it. He might even really enjoy life.<P>God Bless You and Your Family<P>JL

Lacee--<P>In reading the example you described, the thought struck me that over-possessiveness and jealousy as displayed by your H are signs of his own insecurity. It's kind of like a misguided compliment to you, how attractive he finds you. SO attractive that his insecurity creates the fear that all other men find you just as attractive and he fears he can't compete. For some reason. Wonder why?<P>Hopefully he's now just as embarrassed by his own actions as you felt, and won't do that again?

Thanks Susan! I will be careful.... I have to! And yes, there are more problems than just the affair. The affair only makes it worse....<P>Mitzi, Good luck to you! And I will be very cautious! When he drinks, it only makes things worse as you well know...<P>Just Learning... the event happened this last July which was.... about... 9 months into the actual physical affair. Yes, He possibly suspected, but I guess that then as well as of now had he had proof, or I would have known about it. I do plan to get counseling.... I know I have to....<P>Lucks, he is very embarassed and apologized to me and the children later on..... I do think that he is insecure about some things.... and these are things that have been with him all his life. I don't know how to help him with that exactly, but I always thought I was doing my best for him.....<P>Thanks to all of you..... I appreciate it....<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Lacee (edited December 31, 1999).]

Lacee <P>As a man I can say that all men have some insecurities about their wives, maybe not as bad your husband, but we have them. As a man I know one of the ways that my insecurities would be lessened would be for my wife to daily assure me that I am the only one for her, women aren't the only ones that like/need compliments. So many times we here how women need assurances from their spouses, well men do too, now how macho we may act at times.

Lacee,<BR>I know what you mean. You step to the left to try and do what you think makes him happy, and he says "no, step to the right, you (fill in the blank)". So you step to the right. Then, he says "why are you stepping to the right?" Problem is, nothing you do will "make" him happy. He'll just dream up more stuff to criticize you about. He's a big, insecure, friggin bully. My ex would do crap like this, then go for months and be dream husband, then out of the blue pull some kind of wacko-*ull****. You end up living day-to-day wondering when/if the next outbreak will occur and fantasizing about the dream husband you wish would appear more often. As far as reassurances go, I did all that too. Told my ex I loved him everyday. Lacee, it's not about you. You don't need to wrap yourself around his little finger just to soothe his weak ego. Next time he pulls some *ulls*it like the story you just told, don't play along. What's he going to do, beat you up in front of everyone? He's just making himself look even more stupid. No, I'm not perfect, but I also don't give my life meaning by degrading and humiliating the people I claim to "love". Possessiveness is not "love". Ugh. I'm really fired up now. <P>Re-reading this, I see I'm guilty of doing a little venting on my own and it probably isn't helping you a whole lot. Something has to give here. You two have to get into counseling or you need to leave. I'm not suggesting a divorce,but you need to take your kids out of this environment or you both need to change this environment. They are learning some pretty bad things from you and your H's interactions. You can't let things continue the way they have. <P>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited December 31, 1999).]<p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited December 31, 1999).]

Lacee, I had a thought about your husband's inappropriate rages ... actually several thoughts.<P>First thing I thought of was "Bodybuilder? Unjustified rages? Steroids?" And maybe that's just a prejudice of mine, having read so much about the horrible side-effects of steroids and their all-too-common usage in the field of bodybuilding and other sports. Is there any possibility of this?<P>Second thing I thought of was "Self-esteem issues? Suspicion of affair? Inappropriate anger? Depression?" While my anger was generally directed at others, I went through some serious issues with inappropriate angry reactions to all kinds of things. Depression doesn't have to be debilitation and is also a side-effect of steroid usage, if I'm not mistaken. Additionally, some of the odd diets that bodybuilders sometimes try can screw up brain chemistry, I'll bet.<P>Just some thoughts ...<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR>I believe in miracles...<P>

F A, Yes, I understand that he needs reassuring about being attractive, desirable, etc. from me. I do that for him often and I do it because he IS attractive, desirable, etc. Most of the time, things are good here up until he takes a drink. I think that is the major problem with things here. It gets him going (sudden outbursts or ignorant remarks) and then, it's hard to get him stopped. Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it. <P>The Student, There have been a couple times when H has had to bend down in front of me to pick up something from the floor. When his back is to me there is sometimes only one word that comes to my mind. PUNT!!!! Just wondered if this thought sometimes cross your mind? Sorry... I am just venting. He is Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde ALOT of the time. But mostly, as I said above, it is occuring when he is drinking. He doesn't drink excessively, it is very moderate. That is what I can't understand sometimes. He can be so sweet and loving one minute, then turn around and be rude and obnoxious the next. And yes, the problem is, constantly wondering which one is coming into the room next. So I am always on guard. I as you, did a lot of fantasizing about ours being a more stable relationship. However, I was already in the middle of an affair, and all it did was drive me into the other mans arms even more. I knew I loved my H and that I didn't want a divorce but to get through this trying time in our marriage all alone, was just too much for me. It was too easy to go to the OM and feel wanted, desireable, beautiful, without conditions, without the criticism, without worrying about his mood changing and feeling that love that OM gave to me. I know some people might not want to hear that, but that is how it was. As far as your venting about your situation..... PLEASE FEEL FREE!!! I want to hear about it. It does help me! It helps everyone who reads it to understand a little better. Thank you so much!!<P>Hi Terri, I wish I could blame it on steroids. But he has never taken them. He does take many different vitamins though. And there was a time when I wondered if certain combinations of things may have caused him to act irrationally at times. I'm not sure even what some of those ingredients are that he is putting into his body let alone the effects! Your bringing up those thoughts puts the idea into my head to double check some of those things. As for "Suspicion of the affair" I am pretty sure that has much to do with it. And as for "Depression" it is a possibility, however not caused by the steroids. I appreciate your thoughts and I am going to look into it.

Lacee, I can relate. I've had several b/fs and an XH who were exactly the same way.<P>Your H needs to change his attitude, and ASAP. If he doesn't realise how hurtful, selfish, and immature he's behaving, and how much this hurts you, your children, and your marriage, it could do permanent irreversible damage, and possible escalate in nature. <P>I think you may want to consider counselling. After all, you married your H because you wanted to be with him and nobody else; you had his children because you loved him; you make yourself beautiful to please him. You don't deserve to be treated badly just because he cannot handle your love and devotion. Perhaps he feels that he is undeserving of your love & devotion, and that is why he is so afraid that you are flirting with other men. Behaviour of his sort usually stems from deep problems with self-esteem. I think he perhaps may not like, let alone love himself, and thus can't reconcile the love you have for him... He feels undeserving. Work on his self-esteem and try to help him love himself for who he is inside, instead of the superficial outside (which is easier to work on but which doesn't - in the long run - matter much).<P>HTH<P>------------------<BR>~~ Elixir ~~<P>

Thanks Elixir, It is nice to know that someone understands, however, it isn't so nice to know that so many other people go through this type of thing. I am afraid that it has already done damage that can't be undone. <P>Just today, things were calm around here, kids were watching a movie, H was watching football... so I decided to take a bath and relax and read a bit. As soon as I get in the tub, he knocks on the door... "Let me in..." So I do. He walks in, looks straight at the books I have brought in with me, and says, "Oh I should have known!" (Refering to the books I had brought in to read. They are of a subject that he thinks ridiculous!) Then he asks, "Why are you taking a bath? We haven't had sex.." And I am thinking....Why all these ridiculous questions? And what does it matter? It is my relaxation time... and he slams the door and goes out. Before I finish bathing, (Crying, and feeling sorry for myself the whole time) he comes to the door and asks me what I am going to make for dinner... like it matters right now at 2 in the afternoon? It was as if he was saying... Hurry up and bathe, you need to get busy around here! And what the He!! am I suppose to do? Sit on his lap all day keeping him entertained, rubbing his feet, kissing his @ss? Don't I deserve a little quiet time? Sorry... just feeling angry right now. But, hey, the dinner is started... but that's not enough. I should be standing there watching the water boil and not be on the computer.... UGH!!! I am so frustrated!!!!

Lacee,<BR>ugh. So he decides when you two have sex too? What an @sshole! Why don't you go on strike?! No friggin sex, no friggin dinner for him. Why should he be rewarded for being a @ickhead?! Believe me, I know where you are at. You keep thinking "oh, if I just do this, or I just do that, then he'll be nice to me". But then he just finds something else to use against you. I'm getting sick to my stomach. Lacee, sweetheart, although this probably doesn't make you feel much better, just reading your story is most likely the BEST thing I could be reading right now. I've been sitting around feeling sorry for myself for losing the MARRIAGE I NEVER HAD. I have to remind myself that I'm not going to be punished if I decide not to cook dinner, or don't have fresh milk in the fridge, or if I feel like staying out till whenever with my friends. aaah... what a relief!!<P>This is typical abuser behavior. Your H does whatever to keep things off balance. If you resist, or fail to "jump" when he does these things, I'm sure the intimidation escalates to a point where physical/emotional threats go higher and higher till he gets compliance. Of course, this only serves to reinforce the abusive behavior. I don't agree with some of the posters here. I don't believe that people who exhibit extremely abusive behavior can necessarily be reasoned with from those they are closest to. Is it possible to sit him down during one of his saner moments and tell him the effect his behavior is having on you and the children? You should have some kind of backup plan. Tell him you are prepared to leave if he doesn't receive counseling or take some concrete action to change this behavior. It would be no different if your H were having an extended affair and wouldn't stop. You've been doing Plan A (unconsciously) for a long time, sounds like. Now your self-esteem has hit rock bottom. Plan B time maybe?. Maybe it is time for your H to see what life is like without you? Someone needs to break this cycle somehow.

Lacee--<P>One of the neatest "chick flicks" I ever saw...it was probably a Danielle Steele novel, starring Cheryl Ladd and Michael Nouri (sp). Yep, so this is based on fiction...BUT I thought the idea behind it was really cool. Cheryl's character was purty darn sweet, she was catering to everyone else more than herself. Everybody dumped on her selfishly. BING-she'd had enough and just left. Walked out. Flew back home for several days. She called them to tell them she was okay, but enough was enough. When she came home, the whole family welcomed her back with open arms, apologies, and uh, had hired her old housekeeper to help her....OKAY, so it's not based on REALITY...but my point is, sometimes it's okay to say "no." And stick to your guns.

The Student, I have sat down with him many times in moments when he acutally agreed with me that he needs help with his temper and attitude. Problem is, I just keep sitting down with him over and over again and nothing gets done! I can't tell you how glad I am that this thread has helped you feel better about yourself. Afterall, that is the point here! Smiling for you....<P>Lucks.... Well... well.... well..... what an INTERESTING IDEA! Hummmmm...... Thinking....

Lacee,<BR>Oh hun! This is to much for me to hear. My H was the same way. He wasnt that way in public. He was proud ofr me to be his wife. He was a very manipulatuive man. He was always degrading me. And of course u know the affair that I had.<BR>Honey! I cant tell you what to do. but i also donne the crying thing. Going throught the feeling sorry for myself mode and son on and so forth. Then one dya Lacee I just popped. hr told me for the last time that I needed to get the house cleaned and lose weight! Im not conceited or anything, but im just 25 years old. I am a little chunky and could stnad to lose about 20 pounds. But for him to tell me this @hit over and over. I was over it! i told him that I was going on a diet and then i was leaving. I knew what was gonna happen. I knew someone else would notice me at my most vulnerable time. I tried to keep my guard up and prevent it. But I was to alone by that time. The day that I finally went off the deep end. That was the day I had my first nervous breakdown. I lost all of my memory and had to go through rehab. Now that changed him into a different man. I didnt even know who he was, but I knew my mother. THat was saad!!<BR>im praying for ya baby!<BR>Be Careful!

inamess, Thank you for your sweet words. You know that I am thinking about you and your situation. I was so glad to get your e-mail telling me that things were going so well. Then I read your latest post and it made me so happy for you! I see that you went through your own little horror story and I am sorry that you had to. I am grateful, however, that you are doing so much better and that things are looking up now that you have talked with your H! I can't tell you how worried I was when I got your e-mail that said you had told him about the affair and then I didn't hear anything from you for so long! Whew! So grateful to know things are looking up. Congratulations on being strong. I admire that. In the meantime, I am sitting at the table of cowards. I think that is best for me... for now..... Take care!

Lacee,<BR>You're not being a coward. Your H has given you zero reason to trust him with squat. <P>About my last post...<BR>I would hate for you to feel like I was doing better at your expense. It sucks what you are going through. Just wanted you to know that, no matter what happens with your marriage, things will improve for you. One way or the other, I know you're going to fix this situation.

Lacee,<BR>I cant give you much advie. I dont know about any physical abuse with you. I could see it though, especially if he were to know about the affair. Whew! That is a biggy! Ill keep you in my prayers. I know exactly what it is like to be in a criticizing situation. Then they wonder why we have affairs? Hmm! No I didnt say that did I? Anyway, I know your like me and probably not the affair type. It just happened. Honey, I wish I could help ya! The advice that im thinking right now is not the kind that I would put on MB. LOL! Ill keep you in my prayers. Just pray for the job now! <BR>Lacee, be careful! Im worried about ya now. Please dont let him catch you with the OM! That could be a big mess! It is probably the OM that keeps you sane. I thought I was gonna crack going through the amotional roller coaster with H. The sad part was this, this is what kept me hanging on. I knew he was a good man deep down. I knew he had value and morals. Howevever, he was never taught to love. I was the first person to ever tell him that I loved him. His parents have never in their life told him that. So how is the H$%@ can I expect him to know how to love me and give me my emotional needs. He is a very loving man though! Thank God after my nervous breakdown that side of him was destroyed. He got saved in the hospital that night! The DR. told them that I had spinal manjinia and was gonna be a vegatable the rest of my life. I think that i s what woke him up! Thank you dear GOD! Praise you GOD! Your in my prayers lacee! mail me at RPSTYLE@aol.com. IM also!

Lacee,<BR>I cant give you much advie. I dont know about any physical abuse with you. I could see it though, especially if he were to know about the affair. Whew! That is a biggy! Ill keep you in my prayers. I know exactly what it is like to be in a criticizing situation. Then they wonder why we have affairs? Hmm! No I didnt say that did I? Anyway, I know your like me and probably not the affair type. It just happened. Honey, I wish I could help ya! The advice that im thinking right now is not the kind that I would put on MB. LOL! Ill keep you in my prayers. Just pray for the job now! <BR>Lacee, be careful! Im worried about ya now. Please dont let him catch you with the OM! That could be a big mess! It is probably the OM that keeps you sane. I thought I was gonna crack going through the amotional roller coaster with H. The sad part was this, this is what kept me hanging on. I knew he was a good man deep down. I knew he had value and morals. Howevever, he was never taught to love. I was the first person to ever tell him that I loved him. His parents have never in their life told him that. So how is the H$%@ can I expect him to know how to love me and give me my emotional needs. He is a very loving man though! Thank God after my nervous breakdown that side of him was destroyed. He got saved in the hospital that night! The DR. told them that I had spinal manjinia and was gonna be a vegatable the rest of my life. I think that i s what woke him up! Thank you dear GOD! Praise you GOD! Your in my prayers lacee! mail me at RPSTYLE@aol.com. IM also!