Guess I just need some encouragement.

The longer I Plan A, the more I am falling out of love with my FWW. I don't desire to be with her anymore. I may be completely OUT of love with her. While I haven't lost my sex drive completely, I have no motivation to seek SF with her. That seems to be a problem because apparently one of her greatest EN's is linked to admiration ... she wants to be wanted.

I guess the problem for me is ... she seems only to respond, not initiate any improvements in our relationship and it's beginning to wear thin on me. When I'm going full steam, she responds really well and we can have some really nice emotionally intimate experiences that remind me of when we were dating. Seems she needs to feel completely convinced that I am 110% devoted to make this work and have to show it all of the time. It hasn't helped that her younger sister has become more of a friend to me lately either (I know, red flag) and the FWW has noticed we're closer (and doesn't like it). But I make sure we don't have any private time to let anything develop, not that I really think it would, but it doesn't hurt to take precautions I guess.

Anyway, now that I look back on our relationship, it seems it's been that way most of the time. I remember at the very beginning, she took more initiative, but it seems it's always fallen back on me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

So I'm wondering if there isn't a deeper problem here other than the fact she had an affair.

Any insight? Any words of encouragement to keep plugging on? I could use them!

Thanks!

Zaed

<small>[ May 02, 2003, 07:36 AM: Message edited by: Zaed ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Zaed:
<strong>Any insight? Any words of encouragement to keep plugging on? I could use them!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are you sure there is no problems in M ? ... traditionally woman will not break M. How about her family background ?. What were her complaints in M about you before D-day ? What are her complaint in M abou you now ?. What did she say about not convinced ?.

Plan A is very tiring and it is not design forever. Are you sure A is ended ?. Admiration is an easy EN to fill ... read Habit/Instinct section. Do you have conseling ?.

-rh-

Of course there were problems in M, RH. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My PA went WAY down ... gained weight. Lost most of it now, but have a good amount to go.

Wasn't filling her needs of admiration, maybe family committment? I'm sure others .... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Problem is trying to get her to even identify what her needs really are. She is having a really hard time saying 'Admiration is my greatest EN'. Or any other one. she just 'fell out of love' and lost any attraction she had to me.

Her background ... family w/ really bad relationship issues. Mother a conflict avoider, father a hypocritical control freak ... i think that's where she gets her anger/control issues from. Never experienced what a real loving family was like ... never saw real love between a husband and wife as she grew up.

Her complaints before D-Day .... I didn't give her enough time, wasn't romantic enough, didn't help enough with house/kids, didn't take lead in raising kids. I think those were the big ones.

Now ... her only complaint is that I'm trying too hard. I heard her mutter under her breath yesterday about how stupid she was for what happened. I think she believes I will never be able to get over this and that pursuing romantic love in our relationship now will only lead to frustration. Not sure how I'm giving her that impression. Think its titme for another talk. :\

She hasn't said anything to indicate she's not convinced that I want it to work ... I'm just guessing that's a problem from the way she has been acting and the comments she has made about her sister to me. Seems she's truly concerned about me having an affair. I wonder if she wants me to in a weird way to bring me to her level? Who knows??!?!!?

Is A over? As far as I can tell. And I have some pretty good ways to tell. Guess I should have given myself the nick 'BigSlack' as I'm a technogeek myself, if you know what I mean. Monitoring communication, whereabouts, etc. She's doing a decent job of making sure I always know where she is and when I double check (constantly) she's telling the truth.

Just having problems getting her into the 'program' if you know what I mean, which is a post you've replied to before.

Just venting RH ... trying to find the motivation to keep moving forward.

thanks!

Zaed

<small>[ May 02, 2003, 10:39 AM: Message edited by: Zaed ]</small>

Zaed,

I will be a bit hard on you. You have about 5 months since the d-day and you still have not done yur home work such as identifying her ENs ... I even have to ask you about your plan A. You got to focus on the M not on her. She gave you a lo of hints already ... "I didn't give her enough time, wasn't romantic enough, didn't help enough with house/kids, didn't take lead in raising kids. I think those were the big ones." Well, what have you done in term of putting her #1 priority ?. Do you try to court her ?, help a bit with the kids ... hope you didn't have a fixing to do that you have delayed it for many months ... you get the idea. Those are plan A material. Please make a list of 4 columns. First column is the plan A material, second is your actions to show her that you are capable to change, third is your target date and the fourth is check mark when she acknowledges it.

"Now ... her only complaint is that I'm trying too hard. ..... Think its titme for another talk."

You got an "F" for result, I can't judge you on efforts, I don't have more details. IMHO, she feels that you can't change ! you are failed in your plan A'ng. She feels being pressured by you talking to her. Stop it ! it is time to get organize and show it to her.

About in-love ... in MB I beleive that if you are willing to do 4 gifts of love and she is willing to let you ... she will fall in love with you all over again, vice versa.

You could do it ... treat it like a project ... start with identifying the problems, design a plan & implement them. Of course you have to put them in a project timeline to monitor your progress <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> .

-rh-

Thanks RH ... and don't hesitate to be a bit hard on me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

As to my plan A ... damn I'm good! Yes I court her ... flowers, cards, thoughtful little gifts, compliments when she's least expecting it, taking her on romantic dates, etc. As to the kids ... I get them up every morning, make lunches, etc., so all she has to do is roll out of bed, take care of herself and head to work. Same for being involved with them ... it was never really a problem with my youngest, but I have several projects going on with oldest right now and spend all the time I can with them. And I give her all kinds of time ... and it's not often that she goes to bed without her hair brushed or a back or foot rub. And I do tons of housework ... laundry, dishes, cleaning, yardwork ... I do it all. And I get up at 5 am to work out and do some self-improvement.

That's what I mean when I say she says "I'm trying to hard" .... it's not because I haven't shown her I can change ... but I apparently make her feel really guilty because of all that I do. Is that a bad thing? Am I doing too much? And I didn't start late either! In fact, I started doing these things BEFORE I found MB. Just my natural reaction for some reason, don't know why. But is it so much that she feels it can't possibly be real?

I suppose part of the problem is I'm doing so much so hard that I'm burning out. And I've been trying so hard, seeing her coast for so long has really stirred up the resentment. That may be my biggest battle ... overcoming resentment ... and from what I understand it's something that will only go away with time as I associate her with good thoughts/feelings as opposed to all the bad ones.

I'm sure her work has hindered my efforts ... since OM is there it has dragged out her withdrawal. Upside ... if you want to call it that ... is that he has no interest in her now. Was apparently just using her to fill a couple voids ... but has decided either he doesn't want a woman who would do that to her family and/or that what she has to offer simply isn't worth the trouble. He was never 'in love', but she was completely on the 'soulmate' side of the spectrum with her feelings. Guess I resent her for that too ... that one of the initial reasons for her staying was that he wouldn't have anything else to do with her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Argh! I'm just looking for motivation to keep trying so hard.

Thanks for your comments, -rh-. Oh ... and I did set it up as a project. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

zaed

-rh-

Just reread your post again .... and guess you are right about my homework. But I think I have done a better job at identifying her EN's than she has. That's the problem ... she resents doing any kind of 'program' like this. And that's normal for her, not asking for help, especially the professional kind. Has ALWAYS had some kind of aversion to any kind of mental help. I asked early on in our marriage if she would be willing to go to a counselor and she gave me an adamant NO and told me not to ask again because she would never go.

I think I started giving up around that time. If only I had looked harder and found Dr. Harley then. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I would have realized where my M was going.

And you're right too ... need to focus on M instead of her. Hadn't thought of it that way really. But you're right. Thanks for the reminder.

zaed

Zaed,

Onther thing to think about your plan A ... It doesn't matter how hard you try but if you didn't hit the right material it is useless. For instance if her top EN is conversation, SF and physical attractions .... no matter how hard you court her or clean the house spotless;it won't make any diff. It is nice to have but you have missed the target. She is telling you indirectly, you have missed it. You make her feel guilty since many woman would be glad if their H does 1/10th of what you are doing but it doesn't bring back her "in-love" feeling to you. Review your plan A.

Another thing that you have to realize ... She doesn't need to do 4 gifts of love to gain her love for you back !. The only requirement for her is letting you do it. If they don't want to work on M based on MB ... leave her alone. As long as she is letting you to fillin her ENs to the max, she would not know what hit her 6 months from now. Care (ENs), protect (no LB), quality time & radical honesty ... are the core of MB.

Be smart to hit on plan A otherwise you are doing work for nothing !. But keep what you have done so far and add it more <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> , changing it make her wonder and reaffirm her beleive that the changes is temporary and not as a habit.

-rh-

Dang you're fast!

Thanks again -rh-. That's what I needed to hear. To not give up.

And I'm going to start really re-evaluating what her EN's may be. I do believe one of them is PA ... one I don't have quite yet. You can only change your body so fast. But I've lost 45 lbs so far and I do think it impresses her that I'm sticking to it this time. But this EN will take time for me to accomplish. I'd say at least a good additional 3 months at tthe rate I'm going.

Thanks again! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

zaed