This takes a leap of faith to post personally stuff in this forum.

Wife and I are seperated because she is depressed over the affair she had. We are in counseling for 5 1/2 months, but all counseling seems to do is create more conflict and push us farther away. I am willing to work at it, but she does not feel in love with me and is unwilling to try any of the steps to romantic love. We are basically in Plan B except we talk everyday and do things together with the kids. We have dates 1-2 a week, but her continued instance that she does not see getting over this feeling is a constant drag. To much rollercoaster for me. I am thinking of asking her for a more complete Plan B. Basically, no talking until she is ready to committ to try and recover. She says she is by going to counseling, but she will not try to discover enjoyable experiences because she feels she is faking it.

Any support for a hurt soul?

I'm sorrry to hear about your situation but it sounds like your W might be suffering from clinical depression. Has she seen a doctor?

I have asked her multiple times about meds, but she thinks that it was make her "ignore" her feelings. Dull them so she won't be able to deal with them.

She is seeing a personal counselor but counselors do not prescribe meds.

If you decide to go to plan B, don't make the mistake of taking her back without her first meeting certain conditions:

1. She has to go to a doctor to have herself checked out for any signs of depression or other type of mental illness.

2. She has to commit to a marital plan of recovery from a marriage saving professional like Steve Harley or Jennifer Harley Chalmers (the co-author of 'Surviving An Affair').

If you take her back without those two conditions being met, she'll just go thru the motions of living with you and not working to rebuild the M.

<small>[ May 23, 2003, 08:28 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

What makes you think she is despressed? I have actually been through clinical depression and so I know the signs and she has been exhibiting a lot of them (absolute fatigue, try new things, not sleeping, and many more). It is interesting that you think that.

Read the links in my signature below.

Also, read Survivng An Affair.

We are basically in Plan B except we talk everyday and do things together with the kids.
Not even close to Plan B. Also, "we" don't do Plan B. The betrayed spouse (you) does Plan B.

am thinking of asking her for a more complete Plan B.
It's not something you discuss or even mention to the ws. Read up and do a spectacular Plan A.
This prepares you & the relationship for Plan B (if needed.) Plan B is not something to be taken lightly.

What makes you think she is despressed?
It's pretty typical in this kind of situation.

<small>[ May 23, 2003, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

I am trying to abide by Plan A, but my wife is often disrespectful, and has many angry outburst. She does not have any affection for me and does not believe it will return. How can I do Plan A with a wife that does not want to participate?

Having no contact with her is impossible. We have two kids that are way more attached to me than her and they frequently ask for me when it is her week with them. Plus we must coordinate baseball, school, etc.

She continues to work with her lover, and does not see the need to stop that. Their joint project has ended, but she still is contact with him. Is this time for Plan B?

"She continues to work with her lover, and does not see the need to stop that. Their joint project has ended, but she still is contact with him. Is this time for Plan B?"

In my opinion the answer would be YES.

I have gotten the book "Surviving an Affair" and read all about Plan A and Plan B. I had a talk with her last night and when I mentioned Plan B (I know I am not supposed to do that) she said she would resent me and it would drive us further apart. WS also thought it would be bad for the kids because there would be not time when the family would be together. I have a hard time balancing the needs of myself and the kids. The kids are definitely more attached to me because of her withdrawal and it would be more traumtic if I was gone or not in contact with them for a week.

Reading the book did make a lot of sense to me and I have no idea how "Jon" last six months. He must have incredible power. In Plan B, I must find somebody in the middle to mediate and talk about how the kids are reacting?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"she said she would resent me and it would drive us further apart."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course she will resent you because most WS's don't like Plan B for it takes away their choice to have two people satisfying their EN's. But Plan B does NOT depend on whether the WS likes it or not, for it is NOT designed for the WS but for the BS. As long as she is in contact with the OM, the likelihood of the A still continuing is extremely high, and without her agreeing to end all contact with the OM forever, there is NO HOPE for marital recovery. Your situation is definetely ready for Plan B.

Her company just had significant layoffs and she will not longer be working with him. They will have not contact, but they could run into each other as they both work at the same company.

She has decided to go to the doctor and talk about meds. She asked me for time. She does not know what to do, but needs me to give her time.

My WS personality suggests that if you push her, she will push back even harder. She does not take "utlimatums". If I implement Plan B, she WILL very likely hold a grude and never be willing to come back. I am very afraid to implement that decision for myself and the kids.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My WS personality suggests that if you push her, she will push back even harder. She does not take "utlimatums". If I implement Plan B, she WILL very likely hold a grude and never be willing to come back. I am very afraid to implement that decision for myself and the kids.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Plan B has NOTHING to do with ultimatums.

Plan B is essentially a love letter that expresses hope that the WS will eventually want to come back to the marriage and agree to help to rebuild it with the BS. It states that until that happens, the present situation is extremely painful for the BS to continue to endure and thus the BS wants no contact with the WS until the WS either decides to commit to marital recovery or divorce the BS. Don't beleive me? Here's a copy of the Plan B letter Jon gave to Sue in 'Surviving An Affair':

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"My Dear Sue.

I Apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with Greg possible. I foolishly pursued my career without understanding my responsibility to meet your most important emotional needs. I was not there for you when you neede me the most, and we are now both suffering for my mistake.

I am willing to avoid the mistakes I've made in the past and create a new life for both of us that will meet your needs. But I can not do that until you end your relationship with Greg once and for all.

Until then, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. I will also not be able to help you financially. Our friends Jane and Paul have agreed to help make arrangements for you to visit the children whenever you would like. But I will not be here when you visit. If you want to communicate about the children or any other matter, it will have to be through Jane and Paul.

I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with Greg, and I simply cannot be with you any longer, knowing that you are with him. I still love you but I cannot see you under these conditions.

As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from Greg and are willing to follow measures that we suggested to ensure total separation, I will be willing to discuss our future together.

I want us to be able to rebuild our marriage some day. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend.

I loved you when we married and I continue to love you right up to this day. I just cannnot be with you or help you as long as you are seeing Greg.

With my love,
Jon."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now you tell me, where in that Plan B letter is an ultimatum?

I enjoyed your post. It help me understand the nature, message and tone of Jon's letter. I do now understand the tone of the letter and its message. However, my wife will likely not see this message, but maybe over time she will understand it.

Maybe eventhough it may sound like an "ultimatum" to her initially, she will learn to understand that it is a love letter.