I guess I've been trying to do a plan B for some time now: Had a restraining order for a year and through mediation agreed to him getting visitation with children on Saturdays through mutual friends (not letting him come to my home).

But even when the restraining order was in place he was furious that I wouldn't let him come over.

He seems to be incapable of acknowledging that I have a right to not be around him. He says ridiculous things like the judge is going to tell me to knock it off - as if he honestly believes he's going to be granted some sort of visitation rights with ME, not just the children.

He's manipulating the system to use visitation with the children to get at me. Incredibly, they seem to be going along with him and I'm having to be VERY assertive to maintain my distance from him (while being careful not to appear 'uncooperative' or 'vindictive'). Luckily I did find some info at the American Bar Association website clearly stating that abused wives should not have to be forced by the court to have contact with the abusive husband.

How do you do plan B if he won't even show you enough respect to grant you have a right to stay away from him?

The restraining order was because he head-butted me and threatened to kill me. He's still angry at me for getting the restraining order and feels I was not justified in doing that even. I have severe hypertension that is barely under control with medication. Most phone conversations with him end with him cursing and hanging up. So I've decided to have as little contact with him as possible. The last time I talked to him he said I 'treat him like..." and what I was doing was 'wrong'. I asked what he meant (what I supposedly did) and he said not letting him come over.

A big part of the problem (but he should have the decency to treat me with respect regardless) is his mother and sisters totally back him up. They blame me for everything he says and does to me, think I don't have just cause for separating with him, plus believe his lies even if he keeps
changing them.

icedancer, have you thought about going to counseling for yourself it may help. it sounds like you have a lot on your plate. it is bad enough dealing with everything else on your own, but your husband sounds like he has some anger issues has anyone suggested therapy to him? i am sorry for your pain good luck to you. de

I was in counseling for a while. The counselor got a new job out of state, offered to refer me to somebody else, but said she thought (at the time) I was pretty much OK and handling everything well. I had discussed my feelings and what I thought I should do, which she agreed with. It really helped to hear somebody give me feedback that I wasn't 'crazy' or being 'vindictive' by not wanting to be around him unless he got help with his violence problem.

I am currently on a waiting list (along with my daughters) for a different counselor (and sometimes call around trying to find somebody meantime). I want to be careful who I go to because the last marriage counselor my husband and I went to acted as if he endorsed my husband's angry outbursts. My husband even started saying things like the counselor agreed with him so the way he acted was OK. After just two sessions with that counselor my husband MARKEDLY increased his verbal and physical abuse.

Along with the anger/violence problem my husband has a severe problem with telling the truth, is a serial adulterer, and has an internet porn addiction. Also he is undeniably the most selfish, vain person I have ever met and is going through a mega mid-life crisis, his abusive step-father recently died of cancer, and he claims he now has the exact same sort of cancer. He says he's not going to get any medical treatment for his cancer because he doesn't want his hair to fall out or his sex life to be diminished.

I've tried (for years) to get him to go to counseling. At times he promised to and sometimes would even attend a session or two of marriage counseling with me before dropping out. He claimed he went to some anger management program for a while last summer... One day he'd say he was in the program then next he'd say he dropped out (because the other people weren't as 'high class' as he was and he 'didn't belong' with people like that). I asked him what he learned in the program and he said 'to count to 10'. I honestly don't know if he really did the program but apparently he didn't learn anything from it anyway.

I checked my e-mail and there's a message from my husband suggesting we all meet at the mall tomorrow. I don't normally respond to his e-mails but am wondering if I should this time? Will it look as if I'm not being cooperative with the visitation if I just ignore him? (I guess I'd better ask my lawyer.) My husband knows full well that what we agreed to in mediation was MAYBE I would EVENTUALLY agree to meeting him at the mall... BUT only after he made certain changes. As far as I know he isn't going to any counseling for his anger/violence/porn problems.

Also he tied the suggestion to spending some money on his daughters' prom shoes. Why doesn't he just send them the money? Better yet, he should give us enough money so they don't have to ask him for money.

Oh and other things he's done recently tying money to visitation were: sending an e-mail saying he was going to put some money in my account, then saying so can I see the girls on Saturday (knowing we had already agreed in visitation that he would see the girls every Saturday). It sort of sounds as if I had denied him visitation and he had to give me extra money or I wouldn't let him see the girls. Then when he saw the girls on Saturday he gave them each $20 and said he'd be giving them an allowance from now on... But instead of it being a set amount every week or month he said he'd give them $20 every time they saw him.

If there is a restraining order, hen you better live up to what it says.

How do you do plan B if he won't even show you enough respect to grant you have a right to stay away from him?

Plan B is not about him. You don't give him any of the "power" over you.

My husband knows full well that what we agreed to in mediation was MAYBE I would EVENTUALLY agree to meeting him at the mall... BUT only after he made certain changes. As far as I know he isn't going to any counseling for his anger/violence/porn problems.
If he has NOT gooten any counseling and shown improvement, then I wouldn't do anything that is not required by a court order.

He keeps e-mailing. He wanted us to meet him at the mall tonight. I didn't even respond to it.
I asked my lawyer if that would be misconstrued as being 'uncooperative' or 'hindering' visitation and he said don't worry about it, I didn't have to reply to the e-mail and there was no agreement that we'd start doing Wednesday night visitation or meeting at the mall unless I was ready for that.

For now all I agreed to in mediation was he would see them every Saturday by picking them up at a mutual friend's home.

Well, it seems he's trying to link money to visitation:

He recently (since the mediation) got angry with me on the phone for not letting him come over and sent a nasty e-mail rant threatening to withdraw financial support and let me "see what a real divorce is like".

He called another day and said he was coming over to put some cash in my mailbox. I said "Absolutely Not!". (He would never put cash in the mailbox - didn't even like to leave checks in their to pay bills, took them to post office. he would have come to the door.)

He e-mailed me that he put some extra money in my account SO would I let him see the girls on Saturday. It was already set up for him to see the girls on Saturday - no strings attached such as giving me extra money. I had not said anything about him maybe not getting to see them on Saturday as planned. I told my lawyer about it because I was worried he was trying to pretend I was denying him the planned visitation. I sent a brief response that as was agreed on in mediation, the visitation would be every Saturday unless either of us said otherwise by Thursday.

Then when the girls saw him on Saturday he gave them each a $20 bill, saying he was going to start giving them an allowance... But instead of it being every week or every payday, he said they'd get $20 every time he got to see them. So I guess if we had met him at the mall they would have gotten $20 more tonight plus the things he was saying he was going to buy them at the mall. It's sounds like a bribe to me. And if he wants to buy them something why can't he just send them the money or buy it when they're with him on Saturdays?

The divorce won't be final until September. I'm worried he's going to be a real pain, trying to amek it look as if I'm not living up to visitation agreement, bribing, demanding, exploiting to try to force me to let him come over or meet him somewhere.

Stress...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by icedancer:
<strong>Well, it seems he's trying to link money to visitation: ...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good luck for him, he needs it. No court would allow that. Support is separate from visitation.

You need to protect yourself. At this point I guess it is not plan B no more. Plan B if you still have hope of reconsile or willingness to reconsile. Otherwise, it is legal/financial battle. Log and document every thing ... nowdays email would be consider breaking RO and could land him in the brink. Specially if you told him to stop.

One thing I could tell you ... this would never be over unless you start learning to put your foot down. You still have the girl's graduations, promp, engagement, wedding, birthdays of grand kids, etc.

-rh-

Hi Redhat,

I agree I seriously need to put my foot down or this will drag on for years.

Unfortunately the restraining order is expired. I'm fairly certain if I let him come near me he'd do something violent and I would get another restraining order. But of course I don't want that to happen, especially in front of my daughters.

I have plenty of proof (written communications plus taped phone conversations) that he is displaying classic abuser mentality, manipulation, blame-the-victim, control issues, etc. Unfortunately the local court system is woefully ignorant on such tactics and are allowing him to play them. Instead of being able to rely on the system to back me up they are helping apply pressure to let him come near me.

I put up with him long enough that our children aren't that young anymore. The 17 year old hasn't spoken to him in over a year and nobody's trying to make her have visitation with him. If they did she'd probably just move out. The 15 year old mostly goes on visitation because I don't want the 11 year old to go alone. Once the divorce is final we're guessing he'll quickly lose interest in visitation anyway. He's made plenty of remarks revealing he's under the false impression (bad advice from his older sisters' past divorce experiences is my guess) that if he doesn't get visitation he won't have to pay... So for now he's pretending to be interested in the kids... now and then... But being the self-centered sleaze that he is let's just say that his hobbies frequently distract him from his agenda allowing us extended breaks from his pretended interest in being a father.

As far as proms, graduations, weddings, etc. He's not going to be invited unless he changes. We are planning the areas first homeschool prom right now and I'm the chairperson. He ABSOLUTELY can't come to anything prom related (car washes, etc.) I doubt seriously he'd even show up at a graduation even if we did invite him. He resented going to the kids' activities when he lived with us. He would sometimes take a separate car and just disappear in the middle of the program. As for weddings, well the girls will be old enough to decide for themselves whether or not they want him there. In the past his behavior at family weddings has been drunken and sleazy so I'm guessing he won't be invited or missed.

We (including he) never really had much contact with his family because they live in another state. Several years ago his family set up a family web page that he would use to chat online with his mom and siblings every day. But it was like a clique - spouses and kids were sort of tolerated for breif visits to see birthday wishes but made to feel unwelcome the rest of the year. So I don't have to worry about visitation with inlaws.

As far as grandkids go my guess is he'll be even less interested in his grandkids than he is in his daughters. He's going for the mid-life crisis record in longevity and severity so the last thing he'll want is to be a grandpa. Besides he hates little boys - never met one he liked in the 25 years I've known him. He openly expressed in each of my pregnancies how he hoped it wasn't a son. One of the factors I weighed when deciding whether or not marriage was worth saving is do I really want this old grump around my grandsons?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by icedancer:
<strong>Unfortunately the restraining order is expired.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Check on how to extend it ... it is easier than to file a new one.

-rh-

The restraining order was for one year. Halfway through the year I asked my lawyer about getting it extended when it expired. He assured me that wouldn't be necessary because I could have something included in the divorce that would take care of keeping him away from my home. But when we went to a preliminary hearing a couple of days before the restraining order ended my lawyer said THAT wouldn't be necessary either. My lawyer says I can't get a new restraining order unless he attacks me again.

In any case, it looks like the divorce won't be final until September. For now my husband is staying away (my guess his lawyer has advised him to for now) but saying he's been assured when we go back to court the judge will grant him the right to come over to my home (for visitation).

I went to the American Bar Association's website and found their position on forcing a victim of domestic abuse to be in the presence of the abuser (for visitation or mediation) they advise against it. But I'm not confident the lawyers and judge here will follow those guidelines. So far the feedback I've gotten confirms my husband will be allowed to come near me.