Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands. These three Love Busters not only ruin any effort to reach a negotiated settlement, but they also make the betrayed spouse much less attractive to the wayward spouse. Instead of encouraging total separation from the lover, the anger, disrespect and demands of the betrayed spouse make the lover appear to be the only one who truly cares about the wayward spouse. They literally throw the wayward spouse into the arms of the lover."

My question is...if H doesnt want to have NC with OW, how can I do plan A??? He says he wants to make a go of things with her not me...so I am not sure how to go about convincing her to have NC with OW without seeming like a b**chy nag!!! Anyone??

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by michelleo_73:
<strong>[b]My question is...if H doesnt want to have NC with OW, how can I do plan A??? He says he wants to make a go of things with her not me...so I am not sure how to go about convincing her to have NC with OW without seeming like a b**chy nag!!! Anyone??</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Negotiating" in plan A is addresing all the issues that open the door for A. It takes away the original reason for WH to continuing A. It is all about you. You can't convincing him but you could let him know how you feel minus anger and demand. It is up to him.

-rh-

I feel like I have expressed to him what I want, but he is not interested. He says he will think about it, but I feel like how can he be thinking about it seriously if he is talking to OW in the meantime!! He seems to have made up his mind and at this stage does not seem willing to change it!!

michelleo_73,

Leave him alone. You have done enough to express your disagreement. Focus on what you have done in the past that open the door to his A. Might be nothing on you at all ... he might make mistake opening the door himself on top of going through with it. When you are done with the plan A list of actions, you should look again and probably start looking into to plan B.

Leaving him alone doesn't mean you are condoning his behavior. You have your own goal to work on right now.

-rh-

We have 3 children and it is basically impossible to leave him alone with kids to deal with. I feel really hurt that after 14 yrs together i am not worth the effort to even try!! And for the kids...to not try for the kids sake to show them that we tried..even if it doesnt work after that...but not to try at all...I just dont get that!!

Easy michelle, I know how you feel and don't be hard on yourself. Been there and over it now. First he is an adult and he has decided. I have 2 years R and 15 years M that thrown out the window by my ExW. She didn't even gave me a chance at all. I had put a blinder and keep working on plan A. I knew what wrong and I need to move forward w/ or w/o her. I focus on disecting my M and I fix a some mistake that I had made but it was very minor. She couldn't take it and filed.

WAT puts WS as "taken by alien body snatchers". Their mind is clouded by very selfish motive, to get pay off from his A. They are addicted to A and they will do anything to continue it. If you have seen how druggie behave; there is no diff. WS would cheat, lies, steal, disregard of their loved ones ... just to get their fix ... OP !.

-rh-

ty redhat
I agree that he seems to be doing anything to continue the affair! It is not like him to leave his children..or me for that matter...but he seesm to only be able to think about OW right now and being with her. Apparently she is moving out of husbands next week with her three kids and moving abck home with parents..I guess I was hoping that she wouldnt actually leave and my husband would realize that the A would lead to nothing, bit he thinks it willb be better with her...does he not realize that she carries baggage and probably emotional baggage as she was physically abused for 12 yrs? Why doesnt he see that she is using him as an out of her life...and he is using her as an escape from the bad things in his?

Is A out of the open already ?, who knows about it in the family & close freinds ? I would be glad that A is tested. In plan A ... you show that you could change from the past and if he is back he would not be in the same M that prone to A. Focus on that, that is the only one under your control. It will put strain on A. Exposing A in the daylight will test the A & the fog. By her moving out and her kids, etc ... it is a test for A. Right now, they are only addicted to A, t each other. OW might won and you might be Dv ... so you have to focus on plan A the best you can then you have to turn to plan B or tough love for the last ditched effor. FInd out what OW is doing to fillin your WH's need. I would print the ENQ & LBQ and fill it up one for hom as he would. Very soon your WH would shut you & your kids down, get it together quick.

If all the above failed ... you would have no regret walking out from M. I did and I have no anger, resentment nor love left for my ExW and I am ready to find my mate and move on.

IMHO, put some detail on incident and post it in GQII or here to get opinion on what to do.

-rh-

Hi...This is only my point of view but, I am also having an A. I have been in a 9 year relationship with my spouse. We just got married last August!

My affair started on-line with someone I work with who lives 1200 miles away. This person showed me all of the things my DH couldn't because "he wasn't raised that way". Affection, attention, communication, respect. I fell for this other guy so fast I couldn't believe it, I was so starved for the affection.

I met him in January when he was here for work-related reasons. We went out to dinner, made out like high school kids up in the mountains and talked a lot. My DH has never said the things to me that the OM has said, before and after we met. I did not make love with him before he left, and was really relieved that he was gone. But, he came back a week later to finish up the work, and I slept with him twice.

I will not give my M up for him, have no wish to move to Ohio, or for him to move here, but he is still very difficult for me to give up. I tried back in April and for three weeks I was filled with such grief and pain, I started talking to him again. We mostly talk on line at work, (we have our own business Instant Messaging), so it's like having him sitting right next to me.

I told my DH about the affair a month ago, hoping that it would force me to stop talking to the OM. So far it has not worked. I have a great deal of anger and resentment toward my DH because he neglected my needs for so long. All of the EN's that he was meeting are ones that I can meet myself, i.e., financial security, etc. He could not or would not meet my need for affection, attention or communication because he has a drinking problem. He is now trying, but we are separated.

My fear is that I will be able to get along just fine without him and I won't want him to come back. The other fear I have is that after 9 years of begging him to stop drinking, to pay some attention to me (I was always told I was controlling when I asked for this), I don't trust him to do this for any length of time. Why is it important to him now? Because he's losing me to someone else...and that makes me mad.

Before I started talking to the OM, I had no sense of self worth, never felt even remotely pretty, and had given up any hope of ever being happy with my DH. My best friend likes to say that we are roommates that sleep together.

I have lost 20 lbs. since the OM left, lovesick maybe? My DH really is trying, and I want to stay with him. I do love him as much as the OM, but I still keep feeling like it's a day late and a dollar short.

He is very hurt naturally. He doesn't understand it, but at least he can't say that I never said anything to him. I was communicating my needs to him, but as alcoholics do often, he turned it back on me, making me feel like I was asking for way too much, when in reality I was getting way too little.

Three days ago, I gave him an ultimatum. He knows I'm still talking to the OM at work and it upsets him. I told him that if he stopped drinking, I would stop talking to the OM. He made me a counter-offer...he'll stop drinking if I give up the OM and get couseling for why I spend money. That's a no-brainer...cause I'm being ignored? Besides, I haven't spent any money since the A began...I traded one vice for another.

Sorry the post is so long. I am no longer in a fog since finding MB and figuring out which of my EN are not being met by my DH. I do have to say that I have never been happier or felt more loved in my life. It will break my heart to say good bye to the OM, and I know I must if I want to stay married to my DH. I'm just not ready to go back to feeling unloved and worthless.

I hope this helps you to understand some of what he's feeling. I downloaded all the questionnaires and filled them out and gave blank ones to my DH as homework for the weekend. We do not want to lose each other and hopefully we'll find a way to work through it. We have no kids, I do have three from my first marriage, but they are mostly grown.

I want nothing more than to be walking the beach with my DH for the rest of our lives. Thanks for listening.

yes rh the incident is petty much out in the open now, i fianlly told my parents last night..my mum was flyinh out in 2 weeks for a visit and has now changed her flight until tomorrow instead!! He isnt realizing the consequences of his actions, it doesnt seem to matter to him that family is aware of it. He gets mad if i ask questions about her he says it is none of my business so i doubt that he will answer what needs she is fulfilling that I am not. What is the ENQ and the LBQ??
honey pie the differnce is you say you love you H and want to makie it work..my husband says he loves me but is not in love with me anymore and he doesnt want to try and fix things he said he wants to make a go of things with OW!! He says he knows it will be better

I kind of felt like that too. Very hopeless...what your WS has done is withdrawn from you...I did the same thing when I couldn't deal with the alcohol any more. I thought I was accepting it. What he's seeing with the OW is all of the good things...and none of the bad. It's only a matter of time before he sees the bad. In 8 months, the OM and I have only had 2 fights! That's not realistic. There's a website called www.askmen.com...really for men, but there are a lot of insightful articles and women post messages too. There's an article on there about cheating...something like the grass may be greener on the other side of the fence, but if you don't take care of it, you'll still end up with weeds...

The OM does not feel the same way about me that I do about him. He did not tell me until after he left that he was not looking for anything serious. I was very hurt, but that did not change how I felt. He's willing to "play" as long as I am. I do know he has very strong feelings for me, but he's not willing to go any farther than that.

I think that your H will start to see the light...or you may have to resort to Plan B. Believe it or not, my DH is now trying to make me jealous...as if sharing him with the booze isn't enough! We are separated but we are "dating". We're supposed to go on our first anniversary cruise in August and still plan to go. I know it's much harder with kids...I had three when I divorced my first husband...he was just a total jerk...more like a fourth kid...I'm willing to give up the OM, but I need to know that my DH will change permanently, otherwise it will just happen again with the OM or someone else.

Michelle,
Keep yourself in plan A ... until A out in the open your WH would never know what would life like from the result of A. You can't LB'ed but everyone else could ... on your behalf. Let is rolling and don't do LB'ed at all cost.

STOP TALKING ABOUT R OR OW. The answer you get would hurt you since it is right out from the addiction !!!!!. In AA they told you when you talk to an alcoholic you talk to the substance not to the person. In A you are talking to the fog ... and the more you talk to it it might suck your LB$ to nill.

Here are ENQ link and LBQ link. Print one out and fill it as if you H is filling it for you. Guess the best you can. Don't worry about the order of ENs ... the most important is the top 5 and do them all. LB should be avoided at all cost.

-rh-

You can't LB'ed but everyone else could ... on your behalf. Let is rolling and don't do LB'ed at all cost.
RH are you saying that friends and family should continue to tell him the consequences of what he is doing and do the nagging and talking for me...so that he is not puzshed closer to OW by me LBing??
honeypie..am going to see if i can find that article now..maybe I could print it out for him to read

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">there is no eternal bliss

When a person succumbs to temptation, they might forget what attracted them to their partner in the first place, and lose sight of the chemistry and infatuation they once experienced for that person. It is a delusion to believe that a relationship should always progress smoothly on the road to eternal bliss. However, focusing on the negative will lead one to perceive that they are so miserable that they seek to fulfill their needs elsewhere.

Cheating is simple; a relationship is more complicated. Cheating usually offers instant gratification, physically and emotionally. A relationship requires lots of maintenance. Giving it care and attention along with trust and communication will continuously help both people grow.

If you become involved with another person, you owe it to yourself and your spouse to be honest. Creating lie upon lie will only hurt everyone involved. Take a close look at your relationship before seeking happiness with another person.

Also, remember that the new person will require just as much maintenance. No matter how green the grass looks, eventually it will need to be grained, fertilized and trimmed or before you know it, you'll have weeds all over the place. Something to think about the next time that pretty girl at the office smiles at you, boys. Get it on!
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well I found it honeypie and I printed it out to possibly give to my husband to read..its funny because tongiht when we talked I mentioned to hiom about the grass being greener on the other side!! See my post in Just found out... sad, angry, lonely, hurt and confused

Michelle

michelle,
You should not interfere or encourage it, it is an LB big time but you don't stop it either. Let it take its course. Don't ask around how does it go or giving advice on what to say ... all you should do is answer it truthfully and listen to their info. Hope there is someone that WH is look up to and respect and able to get through to him. Right now the most important is preserving your LB$ and hope you could increase it. LB'ng from you would decrease the LB$ and also you would be the subject of his crying to OW.

How WH is doing ?. Does he stay away from "your circle" and creating his own circle w/ OW or joining OW's circle ?.

-rh-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by michelleo_73:
<strong>[QUOTE]I printed it out to possibly give to my husband to read..</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please don't ... print it out and lay it around "conviniently" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> but don't give it to him.

-rh-

I will leave it laying around for him to hopefully find but since he is not stayiong here it will likely be harder for him to find it!!
As for his circles...he just informed me tonight that he was going to be going to some sort of party with her on saturday...so thus will be meeting her friends I am guessing!! As for someone he looks up to or might respond to and listen..at this moment he is to closed off to anyone..he has built up a wall around himself and is not willing to let anyone in or hear what they think of what is going on!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by michelleo_73:
<strong>As for someone he looks up to or might respond to and listen..at this moment he is to closed off to anyone..he has built up a wall around himself and is not willing to let anyone in or hear what they think of what is going on!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Self denial to continue his addiction, don't chase him and don't even try. This is more reason for you to let him for now. Figure out the nature of his addictions ... you might get a hint from filling ENQ. Also get as much info about OW.

-rh-

I am going to print out and do the ENQ!! As for finding out about OW..I know her name her email her phone number, how he knows her...what am I supposed to do with this information! I am not going to contact her as I do not want to push my H further away by upsetting him about contacting her!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by michelleo_73:
<strong>what am I supposed to do with this information! I am not going to contact her as I do not want to push my H further away by upsetting him about contacting her!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now you are learning. Those info are for you too keep. Does she know that H is married ? Do you know someone who knows her ? Knowing her might give you hints on what your WH is addicted to.

-rh-