I am very new to all this but feel that so much has hit the nail on the head. I am currently involved in an affair with another married man for 1 month and feel in love with this person. I have been married for 12 yrs to a man who I know is (or can be) a good husband and father but has fallen to alchohol abuse among other things. We have always had our issues with communication and affection - or maybe those were my issues, not his - but now we are dealing with dishonesty and betrayal - on both our parts. I have begged and pleaded with him for years to get help but we've heard it all before..."I don't have a problem". Since I discovered this wonderful web-site, I have asked for agreement to see a marraige counselor with him because I don't think I can go on this way. I want to change too and end the affair but I feel so good and don't want to go back to those horrible feelings of drowning again. It seems to be the only thing (other than my children) that give me any pleasure these days. I am trying to remember why I married him in the first place and all the qualities I loved so much in him are gone! He used to be so responsible and I used to feel as though I could lean on him if I ever had to but now it's the other way around. I want so much to turn our marriage around and end the affair but he refuses to work on anything. I know I'm hurting him and my children (not to mention the other man's family) and need some advice...please

mommyofthree,
Welcome to MB. I hope you have been reading alot of links ... make sure you read the General Welcome and all its link.

Now .. this is my oppinion. You have to separate the issue of A and his issue of Alcohol. He owns the Alcohol problem and you own the Affair problem. You should STOP the A right now and send NC letter to OM and if he ever try to contact you you should notify his family. Keep it short and use the NC guideline in the SAA book. You know you are going to hurt everyone if you continue and muddied the situation. I would suggest you to get conseling from the church or from MB directly. At this point I have no detail on your current R w/ your H, I would lean toward not disclosing the A to him YET !. Goto AA meeting and get help for his Alcohol problem. You have to do tough love for his Alcohol problem.

Post more detail ... what is your take on his Alcohol problem ? ... any physical/verbal abuse ? ... does his problem is out in the open ? ... how long he has battle this problem ? ... is he still in denial about his Alcohol probelm ?.

His problem doesn't give you excuse to have A ... everyone could have A if they choose too ... however the key is "what R U going to do about your mistake ?"

God Blesses you and hope you find the strength within you to go through this storm in your life ... the one that thrust upon you and the one that you walk into. Keep posting, YOU ARE NOT ALONE. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> -rh-

RH,
Thank you so much for your input...as far as the details go, he is still in denial although at one point about 3 months ago he drank so much he couldn't go into work (he works nights) which he never did on his work days (he works 12 hr days - on 4 off 3) and he admitted at that time he was an alchoholic and wanted to go to an AA meeting that night. Of course, he was drunk then but I found a meeting and we went anyway. The next day he stated he would never go to another meeting again and would quit on his own. I know for a fact (found the empty bottles) that he hasn't quit. There is definately some verbal abuse going on but nothing physical, yet. I have seen him become so enraged that I am fearful that could happen eventually although he swears he would never, ever hit me or his children (which he hasn't). His family and mine know of his problem although his family treats it without seriousness. Mine however, knows of the seriousness of it and they also know of my attraction to the OM but do not know of the intimacy shared. You are right about this not giving me an excuse....

Dear Mommyofthree,
My heart truly goes out to you. Our situations sound very similar. My husband of 16 years is an alcoholic. As of November of last year, I was at the point you are at. I desperately wanted him to quit and had tried everything over the years to get him to do so. Finally, it became more than I could bear. I sure was in a place that I could have had an affair just for the EN that I was missing. By this point all of his interests had gone into drinking another beer. He knew that I didn't want it around our child, and he didn't either (duh! WHy not quit???), so he would spend a lot of time out on our back porch,garage, etc. He never was one who missed work, or went to bars, etc. He would just come home after work and drink...constantly. Eventually, I took all of my love and affection away from him. I totally distanced myself from him out of self-preservation. I damaged his ego at every chance I could in thoughts that it would make him feel worthless and finally decide he needed to quit. This drove him into the arms of a coworker who welcomed his drinking and stroked his ego. It was short lived, but two things have come from it. One, it has caused us both a tremendous amount of pain and anguish...for the loss of what our marriage (if you can imagine it minus the alcohol)had been and just the pain of living with something that can't ever be forgotten or go away. (Yes, it is something I can get over, I think eventually, but I will always remember it) But the second thing it did was actually a good thing. How weird to think of an affair as a blessing, but in our case it was. He NEVER would have given up alcohol (He's in recovery right now and doing very well) if this hadn't happened. I never would have realized how much I still did love him. It was a wake-up call for both of us. I believe it took something that drastic for him to finally see what alcohol had done to his way of thinking (the counselor says if "skewed" his mind and that alcoholics become very narcissistic...not the man I fell in love with nor the man I knew him to be underneath his "raincoat of alcohol") and since he's been in counseling for his alcoholism, he's been amazed at how much he was in alcohol's grip.
Many years ago he went to AA for one visit. Thought everyone there was different from him. After all, he was a business man, wore a suit, etc. Well, this time around he's changed his mind. His sponsor is a guy with a long ponytail, rides a Harley, been in serious trouble, but is totally committed to staying sober and helping others now. Talk about a change of opinion!
I have a few suggestions. Number one, you may want to visit the forums at a website called sober24.com It has really helped me. Another is to see if you can get him to "just try" going to a couple of more AA meetings with you going along for support. Just to see what's out there (I go with my husband every so often). Check out what kind of meeting they are. Some are discussions, some hsve to do with the twelve steps, etc. Also, there should be one for newbies. That would probably be best. The biggest impact upon my husband was when he actually started to listen and hear what the other AA-ers were saying. He was shocked, amazingly so, at how similar their stories were. That, more than myself or our counselor, convinced him that he was indeed an alcoholic. It is what has kept him coming back. A third thing that I heard from someone else sounded pretty good to me. The guy writing in said his wife thought he was an alcoholic and he didn't. Wanted someone to agree with him. Instead the suggestion was made that he try for one month to go without alcohol. And then, to be fully honest with himself and see how he felt during this time. Did he ever struggle to not have a drink. Did he break down and "sneak one" and then lie about it. THings like that. I've also heard that you're an alcoholic if you truly love someone and you know this (or things associated with it) cause your lover pain and yet you're unwilling to quit, then that means you are an alcoholic. For example, this may sound silly...sorry, if you ate onions every night
and your husband hated it when you kissed him BECAUSE of the onions, you probably would have no problem stopping eating the onions, right? You would do this for him even though you really enjoyed them. But, now if you were ADDICTED to the onions, you might want to quit, but couldn't even though you knew he hated it. Or you, like most alcoholics before they're ready to quit think, well (this is the narcissist talking) he knows how much I love them and he should just get over it. After all,l why should I have to give up something I like. In reality, the alcohol is much more serious because it does have addictive properties and chemicals that change a persons ability to think liek a "normal" read that as "sober" person.

So my long-winded post here (sorry!) was just to let you know that the man you love is hiding underneath that "raincoat" of alcohol. It shields him from all of the bad/stressful things in life. I rally hope that you will consider getting out of the relationship you are in, please consider his wife and family, too, and then try some of the things I have suggested. Our marriage now is better than it has ever been and it was always great when not worrying about the alcohol. He is the man I've always dreamed of and we've (yes, it's the whole family) only been in recovery since March.

I hope I have been of some help and please contact me if you need to share feelings. I still fluctuate daily, but know what I want and have a new goal to work toward.

Best of luck!
Faith2003

Faith,

Thank you so much for your very helpful words. I do know that I need to get myself to an Al-anon meeting if anything and I will certainly check out that forum you mentioned. I am so glad you are working things out and seem to be on your way to a happy marraige..it gives me some renewed hope. Unfortunately, I can't convince him no matter how I do it, to go to another meeting. He has said to me many times there are two things he will NEVER do, one of them is go to AA and the other is see a counselor since he believes they all scam artists. He has always been very narrow minded and I can say I've pretty much accepted that about him but now that I feel our marriage is up against a wall (he doesn't - of course), it's obviously more important than ever to overcome that. I'm tempted to leave but afraid that will give me free reign with the OM and drive me further away from H. H has been so miserable for years and is downright nasty to me that when OM showed the opposite, I was putty in his hands (still am, really). OM is a very nice man and doesn't want to hurt his family either so we have sort of broken it off but still talk on the phone occasionally. Of course, OM's W is a recovering alchoholic..could this be more twisted?! I believed that this was a sign from God that I have to move on and out until I came across MB site and couldn't believe all the things I was reading....it was as if it was all about ME! I know I'm not the first to think this way but I'm so grateful for this site and all of your input. I will keep posting as much as I can..I'm still trying to read all that is out there!

mommyofthree,

Confess your A to your family and get their help for putting NC w/ OM ... this is a must and this is under your control !. Read SAA and copy the NC letter, and get one of your family member to deliver it ... plus let him know that if he violate the NC someone will let his W know about this A. Most of OW and OM are not bad person at all ... they just made a bad choice . Again it is not about the mistake but what are you going to do about it ?. Learn how to protect your M by never letting anyone fillin your ENs but your H. About letting your H know, at this point is up to you. IMVHO, you should not let him know, yet. You have to help him out first with his alcohol problem.

I second Faith on getting familiar with the addiction, there is a link on enablement under my signature. It is about addiction. The best thing you could help him is understanding the beast that grip his soul. You need also to look what is beneath his addiction ... his childhood ?, unhealed emotional scars ?, basically identify why he choose "alcohol" for escape !. Escape from what ? ... He has to get treated on both physical addiction and emotional part of it.

God bless you, may God give you strength to pass this storm in your life, double storms, one that is thrust upon you and one that you 've walked into. Ask His guidance, you shall receive.

-rh-

Dear Motherofthree,
I am so sorry that he is still in the denial phase. Yes, I call it a phase because of all of the alcoholics I have read comments from and heard from while attending some of my husband's AA meetings were at that very same stage at one time. I hope that gives you more hope. As I said, my husband absolutely was NOT going to give up the alcohol until he had created, and hit, his own rock bottom. I tried to create them for him and it didn't work. Like you said, there was nothing I could do to "get" him to quit. I have never felt such frustration in my whole life. I took it SO personally, as if he didn't love me because he wouldn't quit. I still battle that one. He had to get to the rock bottom on his own. That was his affair. Luckily, he loved me and was only looking for someone to give him the affection I was withholding. It sounds to me that you are doing the same thing he was doing.

Can I ask you something personal (please don't answer if you choose not to!)? This may give you something to think about: If your husband suddenly found that he was willing to admit the possibility that he is an alcoholic and willing to begin the recovery process (and it's not easy on anyone involved) because he loved you and wanted to heal himself, would you go back to him...physically and emotionally? Would you give up the om and devote all of your love and care to your marriage? I don't know if I could have answered that last November, but boy, when I found out about the affair and the fact that I could lose him, I figured out really quickly how much I loved him.

Do you think you could get him to look on the sober24 website? They even hold online AA meetings. There are many people there who just aren't ready to go to a face to face meeting. This allows them some annonymity. Maybe you could just copy off some of the posts that you feel might pertain to him...possibly people who have expressed that they don't feel like they have an alcohol problem.

One other thing. My husband, too, felt that therapists,etc. were all a bunch of quacks out to get your money. Only sissies went to these people. Well, the only way I got him there was for marriage counseling they day that I caught him on the phone with the ow. She is the one that told us that very day..."Your problem isn't the other woman, your problem is the alcohol." She said that was his mistress and first love. I have to say I was relieved to hear that. She was the one that convinced him that very day that he indeed was an alcoholic. He then HAD to agree to alcohol counseling as a part of our marriage building. He went to three, hated each one of them, but we had built a close relationship with our therapist at this point so he asked her to help him. She was uncomfortable with this, but agreed if he would allow her to bring in outside help if needed. Also, I go to his alcohol therapy with him, but mosty just listen. It is a very strange arrangement but really works. We are for the first time in years working as a team.

MOT, it is definitly not hopeless, but I truly believe you will not be able to work on this if you continue in the A. Your heart will not be fully invested in him and yes, it is too tempting of an out of this problem. Could you really live with the feelings of pain that both BS and children would feel? This is not the way to do it. Please wait until you are positive that you are done with the marriage and have taken steps to end it before moving on to someone else. Same for the married man you are involved with. Just for your own dignity. You sound like a very nice person. I can't imagine this is truly the way you want to have a relationship. Maybe this man is the one for you, but if he is, do it the right way. Not a way you will be ashamed of later.

I hope I haven't said to much and have meant only to help you. I can tell you are in so much pain and it really breaks my heart.

Sincerely,
Faith

Oops, one more thing. I agree with RedHat. I think the book Surviving an Affair is about the most beneficial book I've ever read. It has really good things in there that I feel you will be able to relate to and will confirm what you are feelings. It may also give you some different ways to look at your A. The other thing is, I would not tell your H about the A at this time. Later, yes. But now, I think it will just drive him to drink worse. My husband agrees with me on this. He needs to get in recovery first and understand what he has done as a victim of alcohol and then be willing to accept the consequences. That would be the time to tell him. Just my own opinion! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Faith,

To answer the personal question, I think I could go back to him emotionally/physically if he did start the recovery process because for years that is what I wanted and I wouldn't want to give up our M until I know I've done everything I can to keep it together. I have invested too much time into the M to let it go that easy. I can't say for sure that my feelings for the OM will go away or are not meant to be but I know he will not leave his W - at least at this time. I do know that we (the OM and I) both feel as though this was some kind of fate involved and there was intense chemistry between us from the moment we met but it could just be lust. As we got to know each other better, it is obvious how we fill each others EN. I am sending the NC letter to him although I don't have the SAA book yet I'll do it like RH said above and threaten to tell his W if he doesn't stop. You are right about doing things the "right way" and that's just what I want to do. I know I will not have a hard time with the OM in this because he feels the same as me. I am not going to tell H about the A yet for the same reasons you and RH state.

As far as the Sober24 site goes, I have registered and still looking into it..so much to learn! He may be okay with that since it is not something he has to do face to face so I will open him up to this when the time is right. I know I'm being redundant but so glad I've reached out and have all this information given to me. You are great people!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hellllllllpppppppp! I feel so weak and disgusting. I just got off a call with the OM and I couldn't tell him about NC. I know this is why a letter is needed but I really thought I was stronger than that. And to make matters worse, I gave in to all his sexy talk about me. God, is he using me for sex? I feel so much more for him. It doesn't and shouldn't matter anyway. So why do I feel so BAD! I'm sick of feeling hurt. I've been feeling hurt for years. I must really know how to pick 'em. I know I am very attractive to men (don't mean to sound conceited) and yet I still can't get it right. Please to any women out there who feel hate towards other attractive women because their men are looking at them...LOOKS DON'T MEAN ANYTHING!!! You can be absolutely georgeous and still have the same grief. I am constantly told by the OM that I am an "absolute dream" and "the hottest women he's ever known" but I'm still left dealing with all this hurt. And I know that's not love. It may feel like an addiction for him but he doesn't love me. I don't even think my H loves me. In fact, I think he hates me since he's so mean to me all the time. And he's even mean when he's sober. This all is pretty pathetic,huh?

mommyofthree,

You are in the process of defogged ... LOL !. You start to see how A meant to OM and you start to see what you are to him. GOOD !!!. Don't feel bad about your self ... you are blessed with good feature/look ... use the blessing to praise HIM. To show to people that you are a GOOD WOMAN AND GOOD WIFE in HIS EYES. About average men ... we are dog, we think with what is in between our legs not our ears. Most will say anything to get to your panty.

Everytime there is a contact, you withdrawal clock starts from zero ... please get a family support and do NC asap !.

-rh-

Thanks RH,

It's good to have a man's point of view in this. Part of the problem is I don't know where/how to send the NC letter to him. I can't email since the only address is his office email and we have not used that for personal comunnication. We have only contacted each other by phone. If I send it to his home, won't his W see and be suspicious? I don't even have his office address. That's why I thought I could tell him on the phone. I still feel so ashamed. I didn't ever think I would fall like this although I will admit in the back of my mind I was wishing for a "rescue" from all this. Can you believe a 38 yr old mother of 3 still believes in fairy tales?

mommyofthree why not send him a certified letter to his place of work?

TOOMuchCoffeeMan,

I would like to but not sure which address that is..I know the company but it is pretty large. You want to know something? He is in sales for FedEx..maybe I should FedEx him? LOL Of course he's in sales...he has the silver tongue for it. I mean that as knowing the right words to say in case any of you have dirty minds. Anyway, I wouldn't know where to start looking for his address. Can you find it through an email address? I'm not good at researching these things.

mommyofthree,

You get his address by phone# specially if it is not office#. If it is office number it is even easier, just call the main line ... hint, some automated line allows you to transfer to live operator after you hit his voice mail. Ask the operator you need to send a package to OM and need his office address to mail it. Use Fedex, never use the phone to tell NC ...

I am glad you are in the process of defogged. The more you see his true color the better for you to get stronger desire to push him out.

God Bless you -rh-

His alcoholim does not justify you having an affair. If anything this will push himm deeper into drinking. Affairs destroy not only your husband but you and your children. Stop thiking about how you feel and woory about what your children are in the middle of.

Yes, you are right about that. I was wrong in looking for a distraction from it all and am focusing now on getting the support I need from Al-Anon and Sober24 which Faith above suggested. I know I will be back to MB someday hopefully with my husband once the he is in recovery for his alchoholism. This forum has been very helpful to me and I'd like to thank everyone for their input. I wish all the best to you.