I need some advice...

My W had an EA late last year that ended in early June. She does not contact him any more.

We have been to counseling twice and both sessions seemed to go well, but she does not seem to act on the advice of the counselor.

I have been the one doing all of the trying. I have been reading, praying, fixing and realizing; and she has not. I know that she is in the fog right now and doesn't really know what she wants, but she tells me that she is not in love with me right now.

This weekend she asked me to leave so that she could have time to herself. So I obliged and left yesterday morning. It was possibly the hardest thing I have ever done. I feel so lost and confused!

But, even though she asked me to leave, can I use this as a Plan B? I did not talk to her at all yesterday after I left even though I desperately wanted to. I really have to restrain myself because I am afraid I would spend the whole time on the phone begging her to let me come back home. I want to give her time, but I am so afraid that she will not want me to come back. I miss my children terribly, even though I am used to being gone on business quite often.

I really need to know where to go from here...

r0uter

<small>[ July 08, 2003, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: r0uter ]</small>

Router, check this out from Dr H:

"In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B."

So does that answer your question?

rOuter, although I am not in the best situation to give you any advice, I can say you are in my thoughts.

I feel for your pain and hope you can make it through this.

Take Care, keep posting.
Rookie

TMCM,

As always your sage advice does help. I am trying to formulate a plan.

I just got off of the phone w/MIL. They (MIL and FIL) had a long talk with her last night. reminding her that they love her no matter what has happened. But also reminding her that what she did was wrong and nobody will ever approve of it. I think that she really needed to hear them say that they still love her. She was always very close to her parents, but has grown very distant since the A started. I know that she values their opinions very much and is ashamed of what she thinks they think of her. She always says to me that they hate her now, and that they think I am the perfect SIL and the perfect father and husband because I am trying so hard to save my marriage! I tell her that I am NOT perfect, NEVER will be and frankly, don't want to be perfect. Anyway, MIL said that she felt like the tension seemed to release during the course of the conversation and that W seemed very relieved after. She gave them both a great big hug and kiss on the lips (that hasn't happened since Christmas I think).
MIL also told me that when my son asked when I was coming home (He wants me to do something with him), W answered "Friday". I didn't think I was going home Friday! I hope this is not just one of her lies to him!

She was adamant that she just wanted to be alone right now. So I am hopeful that this is true and soon she will realize the full impact of what she has asked for.

Question though: If she calls me, how should I react? Sounds stupid to have to ask that, but...
Should I try to make conversation or let her lead? Can I tell her that I miss her? I guess I need to read some more.

Thanks for your concern Rookie, you are also in my thoughts and prayers.

Keep on, Keepin' on...

r0uter

<small>[ July 08, 2003, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: r0uter ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Question though: If she calls me, how should I react?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Calm and collective.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Should I try to make conversation or let her lead?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let her lead, because after all you are only interested in two things:

1. She telling you that she has ended all contact with the OM forever and has sent him a no contact letter.

2. Her willingness to follow a marital plan of recovery that includes counseling with a pro-marriage professional like Steve Harley or Penny Tupy(Cerri) AND strict observance of The Four Rules For A Succesful Marriage .

Without those two deal breakers, your marriage is on death row.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Can I tell her that I miss her?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Only IF she is the one that asks you if you miss her BUT immediatelly tell her afterwards that it is precisely why you miss her that you are doing this. Also don't try to be the one that keeps the conversation going, just listen to her (women love a man who is a good listener, so you may score points that way).

But any further contact she makes with you, you should strictly keep the conversation to ONLY important child related issues.

I hope this helps you.

<small>[ July 08, 2003, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

TMCM,

Does help, Thanks.

She has already ended the A don't know that she sent him a letter, but she told him not to contact her anymore, I think. What I mean by I think is this: I am not too sure that he didn't call her and tell her to leave him alone. It seems that he and his wife are doing pretty well together. And, that would account for some of her anger when someone mentions him : <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

She hasn't completely bought into the Harley principles yet. Is there a good way to convince her that this is the best recovery method going?

Thanks for you help,

r0uter

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She hasn't completely bought into the Harley principles yet. Is there a good way to convince her that this is the best recovery method going?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The best convincing is leading by example. If you resolutely stick to your Plan B and the deal breaker point #2, she'll eventually see that you do take the Harley principles seriously enough to implement them, and this might persuade her to look into them.

router,

I with you man.

My wife left and confessed in march and thought she was going to continue her relationship with her married affair partner.

In early June he dumped my wife to work on his marriage.

The next time i talked to my wife just after that event she told be she needed more space and time. She wouldn't call me anymore for some time and I shouldn't call her just move on with my life. Its been 5 weeks now.

I have no idea what my wifes thinking as her feelings have been non-existant towards me since she left. A wall of nothing. Funny thing is before she left I got the I love you's, hugs, kisses, smile etc. Then she left and I'm lucky to get a smile. What a switch.

Try not to guess what shes thinking it's a never ending maze. And will drive you nuts. Work on yourself and become stronger. Give her the space she needs though I know exactly how tough that is.

BTW - why did you move out and not her?

goodguy,

I moved out because I can travel on business pretty much as I like. If I am not at home I get paid to be away.

Still nothing from her yesterday. In a way I am kind of glad that she hasn't called yet, she can't say that she hasn't had space anyway.

Still reeling from the pain, but started to do some things for myself for a change. Went to the gym last night, first time in years and it felt good.

Can't wait to see the kids.

r0uter

Well TMCM I think I made some mistakes last night, but not sure if it did any damage.

She called me for the first time this week around 8:15 just to say hi, and see how I was. That was what she said, but I believe that what she really wanted was to ask me what my plans were for the weekend. I think she wanted to know if I planned on coming home, almost like she didn't mind if I did. But, I told her my plans, which include a stop at the house to see my kids, (While she is at work!) and some fun stuff with my OS. Small talk, and a goodbye.

When she got home and the kids were in bed she called me again. I said Hi, what's up? She asked me where I was when she called before, said I sounded distracted (?). I told here I was in my hotel room and may have been out of breath because I had been doing some push-ups. Not sure if she believed me, but it was the truth.

Anyway, I'll try to make a long story as short as possible. I did not LB at all. (at least that I can recall) And she did a pretty good job after the initial part of the conversation to remain calm. When I wasn't saying much she started to get upset and say, well if you don't want to talk... I said, well what would you like to talk about? I get a snotty, The f*&^ing weather, what do you think? So, I calmly said, well then talk to me. She procedded to tell me that she didn't know right now if she ever wanted me to come home, that she is still very confused about what to do, and she is concerned about the kids, etc., etc.
I ended up doing most of the talking, again. I know I wasn't supposed to, but she was getting pissed off at my silence and I really wanted her to know how I felt. So, I told her that as long as she kept avoiding me, and as long as I was not in the house that we would never be able to explore to possibility of restored love.
The conversation lasted about 1.5 hours and, like I said, I did most of the talking. But at the end of the conversation, I felt like maybe I had touched something in her that may spark a renewed interest. While she did not say, I love you, I miss you, or you can come home now, she was civil and said that she understood what I was talking about.
She is so wrapped up in what her family thinks of her, that it clouds all of her good judgement. She thinks they all hate her, and as she put it, they think I am pond scum. I tried to explain that they all still love her and that will never change, but they don't like what she did. And until she is able to open up to them and tell her true feelings to them, regardless of what they think after, she will not be able to fully heal. She seemed to agree, butI doubt that she will talk to them any more than she does. She is always lamenting the fact that they only know my side of the story, but that is not my fault, it is up to her to let them know her side. And I ALWAYS let people know that what happened was my fault too.

So, how did I do? Do you think I should have let her get pissed off, and just let her end the call? I just really needed to talk to her. I hope that I am starting to get through to her, I can be very persistent!

So much for long story short, sorry <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

r0uter

<small>[ July 11, 2003, 08:19 AM: Message edited by: r0uter ]</small>

A new chapter...

I was on my way to my BIL to get fitted for a tux on Fri when I found out that I have been temporarily laid-off. (Not as big a deal as it sounds) So now I needed to know where we stood exactly so that I could make arrangements for where to stay. So I called her to ask her how things were, and tell her we needed to talk. She said ok, to meet her at the house later.

After the Tux fitting, we went to eat pizza, while we were at Pizza Hut, I got a phone call from my sister in Ga. telling me that my mother (Who lives with her) was going in Sat. for open heart surgery, she was scheduled for a triple by-pass first thing in the morning. this was all I needed to hear after the week that I had had!! I lost it right there in Pizza Hut I was bawling like a baby. Luckily my MIL, FIL and SIL were all there to console me and I was ok in a few minutes. But, I was blown away.
When I talk to the W after she expressed her sorrow and told me that she would be home soon to talk.

I met her at home and we talked, she told me that I needed to fly to Ga. to see my mother, that no matter what was going on between us, I needed to focus on Mom right now. So we agreed and I made flight arrangements for early Sat. Morning. She also told me that whatever I had to do to go back to work was ok with her. (I can go bakc to work but it will require me to travel to the mid-west for about 4-5 weeks. Even though she had asked me for time, I wanted to check with her because every third weekend she has to work all weekend and it was understood that I would be home on that weekend to take care of my kids,)Anyway, we talked until midnight, and I finally got her to start to talk about her true feelings! she really started to open up!
But, I wonder how much of it was sympathy and how much was really her. I felt like she was really being honest for the first time in a long time! And she told me more than once that she wished we had had more time to talk because she really enjoyed it! She said it again in the morning. The best part for me was that she let me sleep in bed with her, and she actually snuggled with me again. Something she hasn't done in about 10 weeks. We talked about MB and the Harley principles and I think she is starting to see that it all makes sense. Now... if i could just get her to try!
I am in Ga now and will be returning home soon, but I still don't know if she wants me to return home so we can talk. She was fairly rude on the phone the other night and was upset because I didn't call her the minute that I hit the ground here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> not like I didn't have anything on my mind!! She seemed equally irritated when I talked to her yesterday evening. I just don't know how to please her. I guess there really won't be any pleasing her right now!?
I am looking forward to the opportunity to talk with her at length again, and get her to release her tru feelings. But, I still question her motives from the other night, sympathy or willingness? I may never know.

Anyway, Mom is doing better than expected after a Quad by-pass and should be out of the hopsital on Wed. So, I thank God for that!

What should I do next? I feel pretty good about the prospects at home right now, and I believe if I continue the way I have been going things will work out. Time will tell.
'Til next time...

r0uter

<Bump>

Router I'm so sorry to hear about your mom and I want you to know that I pray that God protects her before, during and after the surgery.

Your W's treatment and concern for you is encouraging and I would encourage you to keep the lines of communication open between the two of you.

Remember that Plan B is for when the WS has not ended contact with the OP (like rookie's WW) and is undecided about chosing. That doesn't seem to be the case in your situation because she has ended the A. Although I would suggest that you avoid returning home until she tells you explicitly that she wants you back and wants to follow a marital recovery plan which includes counseling with a pro-marriage oriented professional like Steve Harley or Penny Tupy(Cerri) and strict observance of the four rules for a succesful marriage (see my link bellow).

God bless your mom and all your loved ones.

Thank you TMCM, that was the reply I was looking for!!

r0uter