Thanks for the advice, been a very confusing time.

Sometime the lonliness really gets to a person and when someone does show interest, it is hard to say no when you have been living in limbo for 8 mos. with no indication that things will ever get better.

Talked to the W's close friend tonight, she and the OP are planning on moving in together, when she did not know, but again, nothing to indicate that she is even thinking about salvaging the marriage.

Rookie I most certainly can relate to the great feeling you're experiencing of when a woman shows interest in you especially when you've been emotionally starved for so long by your WW. But look at your WW for a minute and realize how easy it is to pick a loser to get involved with. The OM is an alcoholic who treated his W extremely shi***y for many years and is unlikely to change his ways just because he's gotten involved with your WW. If it's true what your friend said about your WW and the OM moving in together, I cannot envision a worst payback than for her to live with such a man and in a few months time she's going to rue the day that she chose to get herself involved with him and destroy her marriage. So learn from your WW's mistakes and be very careful in not letting your feelings get the best of you by leading you to get involved with someone you are better off not knowing at all.

One other thing the W's friend told me.

The W's mother at the same time I had prostate cancer was diagnosed with breast cancer. I had the radical surgery, which caused impotency, MIL had a scope type surgery to remove the tumor and chemo.

MIL was just diagnosed with cancer in both breasts. She now faces having them both removed.

I feel bad in that a couple weeks ago I had asked her if, when she was diagnosed intially with the cancer and had to have her breast removed and her husband proceeded to have a A on her how she would react?.

MIL told me I used the cancer as a crutch, that the depression I went through for having cancer, being left impotent should not have had that much of a affect on me to cause that severe of a depression.

I thought at the time how ignorant could this woman be, cancer, impotent and the W having a A and I was not to be depressed?

Even though these people have offended me with such statements and their support for the W while she engaged in a A. I find myself praying for her.

I did send the wife a e-mail stating that if she, tyhe MIL, needs a ride to the doctor as both FIL and W work, I would do so and that I would keep her in my thoughts and prayers.

I also advised the W that now would be a good time to get her butt to church and start praying.

Yeah Rookie, I agree w/ JL, and Coffeeman, it wouldn't be a good idea to date until divorce, if it happens. It really would make you feel
as guilty as your W is at this point. You would
have to live w/ the thought that you dated also
when still married. We just want you to keep your honest, integrity, and self-respect in tact.

As far as sending the e-mail reguarding MIL to W, you should not have done that. I think it was a very generous, and supportive of you, but you should have sent the e-mail directly to MIL, it would mean more to her. I think your just looking for ways to still talk to W, but it will only hurt you in the long run. I feel for your MIL also, my mom had breat cancer and died of it, after it spread to other parts of her body,
even after chemo, radiation, and removal of breast. It was very sad. The chemo and radiation made her sicker than the cancer itself. She gave up on chemo and radiation after she found that the cancer had come back in her jaw and forehead, and she stopped going to her appt's and did not tell anyone she was not going, and died.

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

hey rook,
guilt is one commodity that is never in short supply...so why don't you just back off and give yourself a break? your MI has her opinions and so what? evrey person responds differently and feels differently when faced with such horrible circumstances. her way is no more valid then yours...it's just her way and my G-D bless her.

my prayer for you would be more than just good health...it would be that you love yorself more and criticize yourself less.

yes you need to be mindful of your faults, learn from your mistakes and try to always improve on who you are but that doesn't mean that what you are now is something bad or evil.

as for dating, i would say not to...even if for no other reason then envolving a new woman in your life right now, really wouldn't really be the thing to do.

as for the divorce...please remember that divorce is really only a word...just as marriage is only a word. it's how you live the idea that counts.

my point is that divorce doesn't have to be the end...it's only one more phase in the relationship. a relationship that will end only when both parties end it.

good luck.
coach

Guys/Gals, thanks for the support, the dating issue has really bugged me lately.

When I go out with all the friends as I did tonight, they are with their wives and I feel like odd man out. Watching people interact as husband and wife is really depressing, some of these people I have know for over 35 years and have grown up with them, so not going out with them as couples is not a option. They have been very supportive and I appreciate that.

Yep, I do agree that if I do go out with someone I would still feel like I was cheating on the W, strange, but after putting up with her fooling around for the last 8 mos., treating me like something that you'd scrape off the bottom of your shoe, her plans to move in with th OP, I thought that I would be able to go out with a clear mind, feeling no guilt.

I also would think it unfair to date someone as I would'nt be myself, my mind would be else where and I would be comparing all to my W as I knew her before this crap started.

Sooo many thoughts, thought that this whole thing would become easier when the divorce papers were served on me. It just became more of conflict in my mind.

I did take the motorcycle out ALL day, burned up better than a tank of gas and did alot of thinking. Prognosis on marriage, extremely bad, pride in myself and integrity, still intact, loneliness, overwhelming.

Hi Rookie,

Yeah, I know the loneliness is the worst of it right now. The good thing, is that you do have
friends that are supportive. When I was single I
felt the same way, and sometimes there could be
a crowded room of people, and I would still be
lonely. Some days more lonelier that others.

I know this might be difficult, but maybe making
some new goals now might help. Things you have wanted to do all your life, but couldn't because things got in the way. Just something to think about.

I pray the pain will stop for you, and may the Lord bring very special people to you to fill those lonely times.

Ladysheep

Lady, I dont know you, but people like you are very special to me. Without the likes of you and others, I dont think I could make it through this.

It is always grat to hear others perspective on these issues who are thinking with clear heads.

I know what you mean about being in the crowded room, was like last night, I am surrounded by people I've know almost my entire life, people that know everything about me and me about them, but you still feel like you are there by yourself.

I know the biggest part of this is the betrayal part by the wife and the nonchalant attitude she has taken in regards to having a signigicant other.

I feel like the 15 years we shared was nothing but a lie. I am mortified that at the time I needed her the most, she found someone else. I never understood the dynamics of cheating and never will, or at least if I do understand it, I will never accept the theories of it.

It definetely is the most self centered, selfish thing one could ever do to another that they have shared their life with. The one that cheats is incapable of any compassion towards another and I truly feel incapable of loving someone other than themselves and their own needs/wants.

Hi Rookie,

I feel like the 15 yrs we shared was a lie. I am mortified that at the time I needed her the most, she found someone else. I never understood the dynamics of cheating and never will, or at least if I do understand it, I will never accept the theories of it.
Me either Rookie. And I have a deep feeling your W is really going to regret it someday, when she is all alone because if OP did it to his wife, it's almost sure to happen to her.
I don't know how people can live w/ themselves knowing they caused so much pain.

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

Rookie it's good to vent and show us how you feel about what's happening in your life BUT be very careful that you don't get stuck in an emotional rut that will poison you in the long run. Beleive it or not, it is your resentment and your bitterness for your WW that are your greatest enemies to your total wellbeing. If you want to get well, you have to make the choice to do so for it won't happen on its own. How do you do that? By striving to forgive your WW. It is NOT going to be easy but it is worthwhile for it will be YOU and not your WW that will be the main beneficiary of your forgiveness. If you pray to God to grant you his gift to forgive your WW, I beleive that you will be able to achieve it.

I agree Coffeeman, forgiveness will come in time. Rookie is in the anger stage. Next will be foregiveness, then last is acceptance.
I went through the anger stage quite a while, and
even had to have pychotherapy during that time.
My soul was so damaged and wounded. It was horrible. Then forgiveness came about a yr later, then acceptance. It was not an easy journey through it all, but I definitely felt better when forgiveness came.

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

Rookie,

I have been posting here for 14 months....TMCM knows my whole story...alcoholic OM and WW...the list is endless. He took me under his wing...and I trusted him because our experiences were very similar...he knew what how advise me I would listen carefully to his advice...he has defined a disciplined path for you...I followed his advice...and it was successful for me...stay the course....you are in good hands with this very knowledgeable gentleman.
I am on a solid path now and I am feeling much better...close to breaking out of my shell. BOTTOM LINE : Continue to work on you...DO NOT date...wait...I have been temteed too...I hiave rrefused to give in until I know I am ready...if you are confused about YOUR readiness...you are not ready...avoid adding more fuel to the fire.

**WARNNING** The following post has sexual content that may offend some people. If you are easily offended, please do not read any further.

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Rookie I talked to my wife recently and I asked her to give me ,as much as she can, her unbiased opinion as to whether a man with erectile dysfunction can still sexually satisfy a woman. She told me that she can't speak for all women but it is her experience and that of the vast majority of her female friends and relatives that the answer is YES. She said that while intercourse can be a very intimate and nice experience, it can also be a very emotionally hollow act if there is no affection to accompany it. According to her, intercourse without affection can make most women feel like they've been raped. In addition she said that intercourse, in terms of pleasure, is highly overrated and if truth be known, she said that oral sex is vastly superior. She told me that when she and her friends touched on the subject of oral sex, she told them that I was a very enthusiastic practicioner and one of her married friends asked her if she would allow me to give lessons to her H, to which all of them, including my wife, almost fell out of their chairs with laughter. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

My point in telling you all of this is that while we men view our erectile function as extremely important, the vast majority of women do not view it as such.

Gregg, how are things for you?, have not heard from you in awhile.

TMCM, yep, dysfuntion is a major head game, but there is medical help, not viagra, in the form of a shot, sounds crude, but it does work.

Did go for another long ride on the bike today, this one by myself, stopped in a town with a fetival I rode through that I have never been to before, sat back, had a few non-alcohlic beers (still love the taste) and rode back, good for the mental health, back country roads at 70-75 will clear the head out a bit.

Even though this has been going on for awhile, I still cant beleive it is actually happening.

rookie,

Keep fillin that tank sooner or later you will end up in west coast ... in time for Bay Area Picnic at the SF Zoo. San Francisco Zoo that is ... LOL.

I saw your post, keep it cool man. You are in angry stage of 5 greifing, it is normal. How ever don't stay too long in there <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . Use your anger to revenge on her A ... by living well and thrive to better yourself.

-rh-

Rookie :
Things are progressing...filed for D three weeks ago...WW probably got them this past week (my attorney sent me copies and received them on the 18th)..I have thrown in the towel mentally..because there just was 0 progress...and then more drunken phone calls..I had had enough...she probably isn't surprised by this..but it is of no importance to me how she feels.......by the way..glad you went out to get some fresh air..keep going...long road..but it does get easier with time

redhat, been ridding most of my life, doing a roadtrip to Calf. has always been a dream of mine. With kids, wife and work that was never possible. Nothing at this point holding me back, at least till the house is sold.

I know it is going to take time to get over the anger portion of this, I do blieve as long as the divorce in progress it is going to be very difficult to end that.

Gregg, I know this might be cold, but I wish my wife was a alcoholic, at least then I could rationalize her behavior, to realize she proceeded with her A while sober, with a clear mind just makes matters worse in my thought process.

Good luck Gregg, at least WE can say we tried to salvage our marriages, these woman should hang their heads in shame for what they have done to the families THEY CLAIM TO LOVE.

Seems like part of Plan B might be working.

When we communicate by e-mail concerning the son, I always sign off with th elike of, Your loving husband, will always love you and the likes.

She calls this morning stating I should get over her as she cannot come back as I told everyone about her A and she would be too humiliated to face these people.

I dont address our relationship in our conversations but I had to address this issue. I explained that she was not the only person in the marriage that was humiliated by her affair.

She was the person who moved out and had the support of her parents and the OP, I on the other hand had to face questions from neighbors as to why the home was for sale, from my family and retire early from my job as we worked for the same entity and I was constantly being asked by fellow employees about her A.

At this point she is crying and stating that I did not know how many times she thought about coming home, but becuse I contacted her work and "expletive upped" her job. She then states that had I not let everyone know about the A it would have been a differant story, Venution talk

Seems like part of Plan B might be working.

When we communicate by e-mail concerning the son, I always sign off with th elike of, Your loving husband, will always love you and the likes.

She calls this morning stating I should get over her as she cannot come back as I told everyone about her A and she would be too humiliated to face these people.

I dont address our relationship in our conversations but I had to address this issue. I explained that she was not the only person in the marriage that was humiliated by her affair.

She was the person who moved out and had the support of her parents and the OP, I on the other hand had to face questions from neighbors as to why the home was for sale, from my family and retire early from my job as we worked for the same entity and I was constantly being asked by fellow employees about her A.

At this point she is crying and stating that I did not know how many times she thought about coming home, but becuse I contacted her work and "expletive upped" her job. She then states that had I not let everyone know about the A it would have been a differant story, Venution talk

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">At this point she is crying and stating that I did not know how many times she thought about coming home, but becuse I contacted her work and "expletive upped" her job. She then states that had I not let everyone know about the A it would have been a differant story, Venution talk.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She's just trying to shift her guilty conscience over to you, that's all.