Amen to the Lord my friend. I know my stand has been going on since early may. In his own time the Lord will bring our spouses back to us. Thank you Lord.

Tim

Rookie:

Greetings. It is interesting that you and TMCM discuss "The All about me Show of WW".Like TMCM I have had a chance to reflect on my marriage. She has given me that opportunity by not being here in the last three+ months. Hasn't seen the children either. Though, when she does call,she complans that I will not allow her to see them.This is completely false. She is just too selfish to get her a$$ in the car and come here.

I endured the multiple affairs, the lack of inclusion in her world and as I have discovered the incredible selfishness she has displayed in very subtle ways. I have discovered how much I did not know about her. I was blinded by dependence on her for affirmation and love.

While she was a hard working person and did care for the children and cooked and cleaned. I look back and see now that it was done grudgingly.

She just couldn't party or play as much as she wanted to because she had real responsibilities. But, the moment she felt the kids were old enough,amd she felt she had done her job, she quit and left.

After her first affair, she never understood why I was so distant. I tried many times to tell her I needed her help to understand why this happened. She could never articulate to me why.
I asked what I did. What did I get? A diatribe about how I didn't love her...how I was so busy....how I didn't want to be with her...etc....

I will admit that at times some of these things were true...but I always attempted to spend time with her. Talk to her...try to be more intimate.

What did I get ? More drinking another affair (with a woman) and all of it rubbed in my face.
I will admit that some of her needs were not met by me, but after the first affair...well that was pretty hard to do. Especially consdering she acted as though I should just get over it.

AS TMCM has pointed out, these were all RED FLAGS.
She complained if I spent money, but never complained about the new cars. Or anything else that was for her.

She never realized that she lost the best job she ever had because of her first affair.

As i have discovered...she is a "runner"...it's all about me.

I am not going to sit here and tell you it was all her fault. But, I have lived it and now I will learn to be better at sonme things.

I cannot take responsibility for her affairs. You shouldn't either. If it is all about her, she can take responsibility for it.

Sadly gentlemen (and lady) we did not observe deal breaking personal boundaries when we decided to get married to our WS's. We let their words and not their actions, convince us that we were doing the right thing in getting seriously involved with them. I think we all learned the lesson that it is better to be alone than in bad company.

Good morning all,

It would be interesting if others as well posted the red flags that they have seen but did not take into account untill it was to late. It could benefit some who are in the limbo stage.

One MAJOR red flag I forgot to mention in my earlier post was,

I was scheduled for surgery in August of 2002 for cancer, in July of 2002 I went to a reunion for the unit I was in Nam.

Prior to the trip we, the W and I stopped by a friends house. They had a black lab dog, 105lbs they were getting rid of as it was too big for their home. The W wanted the dog.

I asked her to wait till after the surgery and a period of time to recuperate from the surgery and then we would talk about getting the dog if she still wanted it.

I told her that the friends home was larger than ours, I was scheduled to have surgery in 2 weeks and did not know what physical condition I was going to be in following the surgery and I did not want to care for such a large dog, we already had one dog that we had for years and saw no sense in bringing that moose into the home at that time.

Guess what, when I returned from my unit reunion, the dog was in the house. As predicted I had the surgery, had 36 staples in my abdomen and a cathetar. The W stayed home for 1 week following the surgery, but guess who took care of that thing when she returned to work the week after surgery. I had prior told her I was not physically capable as I was not going to risk such a big dog, new to the house and not knowing it's personality/habits when I was in such a fragile condition.

I was seeing red when she went to back to work after my surgery while I was stuck in the house caring for 2 dogs, one of which I did not want in the least.

So, yep, if that was not a major red flag I dont know what was, as well as a LB on her part.

Now that she has moved out, my daughter has taken the moose to her farm as I told the W she was responcible to get rid of that dog as I did not even like it and she was the one that brought it into the house against my will. She told me that I should find somewhere to take it. I told her that if it was my responcibility I would euthanize it as I knew of no one that would want such a large dog with the traits that dog had.

Well, here is the kicker, she then tells the son (ten at the time) and my daughter who took the dog, that I was going to kill the dog. So there it goes. To me, at that time I thought it was absolutley ridiculous and selfish on her part to get that dog, I was more than correct.

I know it sound trivial, but at that time it was a major issue.

Ok, I have to jump in on this one.
Many times in the past 18 years I have thought to myself "H really has a selfish streak running through him" I just didn't realize how serious it was.
Most recent example -
H coached YS baseball team. One of the players showed up for a game with his pants falling down, and no belt. I went home and borrowed H's baseball belt that he had not worn in years, took it to the boy, and said to H "I let him borrow your belt, so his pants won't fall down while running" H gets angry - "that was mine, you should not be giving out my baseball stuff" - I didn't GIVE it away. The boy returned it later. When I handed it back to H all he said was "thanks".
This belt would have cost about $9.00 to replace, which we could well afford, but that boy could not.
Now I realize that H was in EA at that time with someone he now claims is "very athletic, more athletic than BS" and the two of them were planning a co-ed softball team together. I suspect the belt incident was becuase he was having some sort of vision of him looking buff and studly in baseball pants. Forget the fact that he has a belly.

Rookie - I would like to get your input on something. WS is a "campus cop" for a university here in town. OW is a city cop. Technically she is a "real cop" while he is a "campus cop" (he would kill me if he heard me say that) He has always liked his schedule though, so he stayed at the university. Don't you think that the day will come when he will feel like she has a better job? She carries a gun - he doesn't. Seems like a possilbe conflict??

Woman, my response to your question in regards to the "campus cop", answer is pretty simple and I dont want to sound like a elitist.

I had been on the job as a city cop for many years, as with campus cops they are in the same catagory as store, hospital and private security cops in that all I have ever met were cop wanna be's who could not pass the entrance level exams, physical, mental or aptitude tests required to be the "real police". Attitudes among that select group ranged from dirty Harry's to Serpico's.

I did not have much respect for many as they tended to know all the secrets of the job, but knew enough to cause us, the police problems in presenting their, the pseudo police, cases in court as they usually screwed them up beyond repair.

These people tended to either be so physically impaired, be it over weight or anorexic or mentally unfit that no police department would have them. They tend to be overly macho and tried to impress the police responding to their calls with wit and prowness. We usually had a pretty good laugh on their behalf.

Now on female officers, again being on the job I noticed a couple things about woman on a police department.

1st, they have a attitude, I dont mean to include all of them as there have been several who I respected highly, but in general again, for lack of physical strength and for a lack of respect most received on the street (I worked in a area with a high Hispanic population, again not to generalize, but hispanic males tend to be very macho and dont take kindly by being told what to do by a 5'2" female weighing in at 100lbs) the female coppers had a tendency to over do and over react to compensate for their weaknnesses.

Female officers work in a very macho enviorment, yep male cops are just as guilty of this. There is a lot of interaction amongst them, being the female and male officers, beleive me and trust me on this one, the female officer could look like ten miles of bad road, but THERE WILL BE A MALE OFFICER HITTING ON HER....how long does your husband think he can compete. When she finds a officer on the job in the city she will dump him faster than he can say his name, he wont know what hit him.

I have seen many, many officers come and go on the job for various reasons, but it always seemed like the woman, if they cannot get a inside job, being off the street, they tend to fade very quickly.

I dont know if I ansered you questions, but I did want to give you a little in sight based on my experiences.

You told me everything I had all ready thought.
My WH has been on campus for about 12 years now. Several times over the years he has said that he was going to apply for a city job to make more money, and each time I told him to do what makes him happy - but don't do it just for the money. His job has weekends and holidays off. He gets the week of Christmas off. This has been very important to him over the years, so he could spend time with family.
he met this woman at a crime prevention meeting. She is actually an information officer for the city - so she does have an inside job. Her BS is a county sherrif. I just don't see this relationship lasting "forever" like my WH thinks it will. I feel sad for him - she is going to destroy him some day. WH would prbably look for a new job at this point to impress her - but with the econmy being what it is no one is hiring right now. And he doesn't have his degree - so even if they were hiring, he would not stand a chance against the younger guys with degrees.
What a shame that he has given up so much for her.

Here is soemthing else that I would like your input on. A couple of years ago he got his concealed weapons permit, and started carrying a gun. It made me uncomfortable because he took that damn thing everywhere. I would put my arm around his waist at the grocery store, or at church, and I would feel the gun stuck in the back of his pants. A couple of times I said "at the grocery store? At church?" and he would get mad - "you never know what mught happen! I am only trying to protect my family!" He also kept it by the bed, which I didn't like - and he had the same "protection" excuse. Well he sure as heck isn't protecting us now.
Anyway, after he moved out he had to give up that smaller hand gun (long story, it was actually my dads gun, and he wanted it back) One day he shows up here at the house to pick up some stuff, and he has a bigger gun strapped around his waist, in a holster. He is wearing jeans, and t-shirt and this gun. I spoke without thinking - "what are you trying to be, a cowboy?" needless to say, he didn't think that was funny. Now that I think about it - I think it is pretty damn funny!!!!
But at the time I was very disturbed that he felt the need to pack a gun around like that. We live way out in the country. What did he think he was going to find out here?
I was very worried about that for awhile. But I haven't seen him with that gun again. I suspect that he has bought another smaller one, and he is hiding it in the back of his pants agian.
Is this weird???

Woman, in response to your question about the gun.

Remember the names Dirty Harry and Serpico?

Let me put it this way, I worked in a MAJOR metropolitan area. I NEVER carried a gun off duty.

My thoughts were, if something should occur, I would simply turn over my wallet, punch it out or call 911. If you are with your family, something happens and you pull a gun out you have just escalated the situation and forced the person who you have confronted to run, shoot or become more violent.

See, bad guys know a cop is not going to shoot unless he is shot at first it is extremely rare that a off duty campus security guard deflated a situation by pulling his gun.

I was very hesitant to even bring it home, I changed at work.

Tell him to get a cell phone it is alot safer.

You made me laugh - and God I needed that.
Got a phone call today from YS school counselor. He went to see her today to talk about a few things that have been bothering him. He told her that he considered killing himself. Even had a plan - that involved a gun his Dad left behind.

I came home early and WH stopped by to take son to football practice. The three of us sat down and we asked son to tell us what was going on, so he spilled his guts. WH still won't take responsibility. Part of the problem, of course, has to be me. I am not "getting over it" and "moving on". The boys can see how sad I am so that makes them sad. if I would just get over it, they would too.
What a delusional piece of crap that was.
I just know - absolutely KNOW in my heart that she is eventually going to DUMP him. He is fat, lazy, and way too into porn. He has very little money, and it will get worse as time goes by. He is a campus cop who likes to wear a gun. He has a quick temper and would tell the boys and I to F*** off if he was mad.
So today he says that the problem with me is that I have different values. I tell him, we are both christian, we BOTH have christian values. He says, yes, but I also like to swear, and you didn't like that, so you are different. Then I add, you also like porn, and I have to tell you that I thank God that crap is out of my house now. He says, yes that too. you didn't like it, but I do.
I didn't like it - but I never made him get rid of it. Now I wish I had.
He took 18 years of my life, that I will never get back.
How could he do that??

rookie can you think of any red flags that come to mind prior to you marrying her?

TMCM. as hard as it is to say this yes, one was that I slept with her way to soon after meeting her. I had not been with a woman for 8 mos. at that time, was drinking and one thing led to another.

Also as stated earlier, I met my W when she was 20, at a bar/restaurant, again I assumed she was at least 25 at the time as it was in a bar. But, the night I did meet her she was on a date with another guy, we did hit it off while talking and she left with me that night.

Two, she had a explosive temper and would yell at the top of her voice if things did not go her way. I did tell her I would not tolerate that and it did stop, till the marriage.

Three, I met her in May, approx. 28th, I later found a parking ticket in her car for like the 30th of May that year for a violation that was by her old BF home at 9:00 Am. in the morning, she lived about 30 miles away at that point, when I asked her about it, she stated she stopped by there to pick up some items.

At the time, I did not think much of those issues, but now when I think of it they were MAJOR red flags.

Hey Rookie, can you come over here and arrest my 13 yr old son please??? He just admitted to smoking marajuana. Him and his friends who have been good friends since 2nd grade all admitted to it. They are all in big trouble. Is it legal to beat him?? No I can't do that. I have been in grief ever since <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . Hopefully none of them are addicted now. I'm gonna give it 30 days then get him drug tested to see if he does it again, if he does he will have to go to treatment.

You know this town is infested w/ drugs where are all the cops!! We live in a good neighborhood, and these boys can get it on the
corner, down the street, everywhere. I'm so upset!! Prisons have been built all around this town, and now inmates families have moved into town. I'm really thinking about moving too.
We've been here for 15 yrs though. It would be
a difficult thing to do.

Ladysheep

Lady, sorry to hear about your son.

1st. Call your local police/sheriff, ask to speak with th ejuvenile officer. Most departments will get involved without getting the issues into the legal system.

Your local juvenile officer can speak with your son on a intervention basis, or he has the resources to direct you to proper counseling for the issue.

2nd., Call the school he goes to and ask for the couselor there, advise him/her of what you know and also ask them for help. They will also speak with him. You dont have to name the other boys, but do get help involved immedialtey.

3rd. He, like a WS, has to be accountable to you at all times, who what and where are you going. You wont, as much as you want, terminate the realtionship with the boys that he was doing this with.

4th., Contact the other parents and let them know, there is stregnth in numbers.

5th., SNOOP, it is your son's life, just dont let him know you are doing it he will only hide things better, no sense in educating him.

6th. Advise him, if he is caught by you, you WILL call the police and report him, not much the police can do since he is a juvenile, but the wieght of that hanging over his head will keep him thinking.

Good luck, God bless you, act now.

Jerry/Rookie

Had to break plan B today and speak with the W, but well worth it.

I put in a offer on a home today and since the divorce is not finale, she has to sign off stating that the home purchased is not considered marital property and she has no interest in the purchase of the home and will not pursue it as marital property in the D settlement.

I requested that she sign off on it, by telephone.
She wanted to know how I was going to pay, where at and such, told her how I paid for it was my concern not hers and for her not to worry about any of the other details.

Seemed a little sheepish, but agreed to sign off.More than a little dose of reality set in today.

As always at the S's football games I saw her again, I was dressed very well (I even ironed my jeans and shirt, lol) and requested her to stop by the house and let the dog out as I was going out and did not expect to be in till late. I did not say anything else after she agreed to do so and walked away, continually throughout the game she kept looking my way.

I then talked throughout the 2nd half of the game with a very attractive, divorced mother who's son is also on the team.

I then went to the dog races alone, won $180.00.

Her face does not show any happiness at all and lacks life or emotion. She cannot look me in the face when she talks to me.

Rookie,

Thanks so much for those things I need to do.
You're right!! I have done some of them already. I was in contact w/ the school this week w/ principle and
his resource teacher. Haven't contacted the counselor yet. I am very snoopy now, I'm having a hard time trusting him, and I can tell the drugs are still in his system. He's trying to be very nice, hugs and kisses all day. He's been very clingy. He knows how much he hurt me,
and that doesn't even matter, it's how much it will hurt him. I keep telling him that. He said today that they just tried it, and one of the other kids is more into it, which is true. And he keeps reassuring me he won't do it again.
One of his friends who did it also, is a son of a police officer here, and I talked to him yesterday. He's doing the same things I am.
I talked to one of the other parents, and she
wanted me to spy out her house because her son was having kids there when she wasn't home. She has to work until 5:30, so he has 3 hours to sneak around. He is the one I know is probably addicted. He will need treatment for sure. I talked to him 2 days ago and told him that I want to help him get off drugs, and if he wants help I will be here, if he doesn't I have to walk away. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> The good thing is that we as the parents have got to know each other pretty well, and they all feel like all of our boys, so we care for them all so much. It's really difficult to say to one, you can't hang out with the other now because they have been close friends since 2nd grade (6yrs), and all of those yrs were innocent years, special years.

Right now we just have to keep them scared straight I guess. I am really hoping it was an
experimental thing, and that it won't happen
again. OR ELSE!!

Thanks again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

Hi Rookie,

Me again, I have to say I am very proud of the way you handled things today. That was good!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> And won $180.00 too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . I only won $16.00 today, but hey I'm happy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> !!

Ladysheep

Even when you try to keep these WS's and their insanity out of your life and try to move on they try to exert control over you.

As stated I plan on purchasing a place of my own to live.

I need her to sign a letter, simply put, stating that any purchase of property by myself, will me my sole responciblility, she has no vested interest in the purchase of said property, she will not be liable for any funds to pay or finance said property and will not pursue said property in the divorce settlement as marital property, as said property is intended to be purchased prior to the finalization date of the divorce decree.

Simple, but now I am getting I wont sign this till I get a copy of my own and my attorney reviews it and gives me the OK, she states that this could take a couple days, but I do want my attorney to review it.

I want to e-mail her the copy then let her e-mail her attorney to get the ok for her to sign it, takes all of 5 minutes, but, as long as they can yank your chain, they might as well go for it.

These people always amaze me, one of her statements prior to plan B was, "I did nothing to screw up your life throughout this thing", well, having lost my house, my son's contact on a daily basis, my wife, my health insurance, retirement, all things I have worked for, and she has the nerve to say that she has not screwed up my life. FOG TALK, and now to try to jerk me around when I try to move on,,,, disgusting.

I hope God has a speacial place in his heart for her and the OP, I do.....

One thing I forgot to mention.

The OP in the past had been telling his son of the new life he was going to have when he and the W were married and they supplied him with new brothers and sisters, this was a song and dance he gave the son several times.

I spoke with the OP's W the other day, the OP is now telling the S that he is NOT going to marry the W when the divorces are final,hmmmmm maybe plan B is working in that there has been no interference at all in them two getting together and reality seems to suck. They have been spending the nights together at her apt. when I have my son for the weekend.

He also it telling their friends he is worried that I am going to kill him, laughable, but true. He tells them what the W has told him, saw extensive combat in two tours in Nam, she has heard the stories from people that I had served with and I am sure she repeated them to him. I have to admit the thought had crossed my mind, I would be a liar if I denied it, but he isnt worth it. He is also concerned that I was a police officer for many years and would not hesitate to pull the trigger on him.

I'll leave him that thought, walking around in life looking over your shoulder wondering what is around the next corner is worse than actually having something happening to you.

Way to go Rambo! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You are right it is laughable considering that there are other causes much worthier to fight and sacrifice oneself for than a piece of pond scum like the OM.

Oh and speaking from personal experience, just wait until your social life starts going, then the calls from her will increase dramatically. Unless the affair is an exit type, WS's don't like it when their BS's move on with their lives, but its loads of fun just watching them squirm for a change. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

TMCM, ever think of becoming a psychic, polish up that crystal ball ole boy and start raking in those bucks from the little ole ladies.

You called it right on the head as far as her seeing I am moving on having a independent life and her starting to call.

As I posted earlier, last Sat. I showed up at son's football game dress like I was going out(did not, but gave the impression I was), Sun., I tell her I need for her to sign off on the house I was going to buy for myself., Mon. I was going to watch that miserable game the Bears played against the Pack with some friends and she knew it as I asked her to pick up the son from practice so I could get to the city in time for kick off.

Today, 3 phone calls and 2 e-mails so far. One she is accusing me of being a bad father as I did not take the son to the city to watch the game, not to say that it ended at about 11:30 or so at night and I got home after midnight.

She stated that since our local school district is on strike I could have taken him and kept him overnight, right, if she thought of this before she should have mentioned it when I told her I was going in the first place. She knew I was watching the game with my brother, she was very close to the sister-in-law, and now she only has Jon.

Funny I am a Bears fan (could never give a good reason why) but the OP is a Pack fan, I think I might have screwed some plans up for him to watch the game with her, but, oh well, she as a single parent does have some responcibility now I guess.

Anyhow she tells me that since I am a bad father she wants to go for sole custody. I did not argue with her, simply told her she would be in for the fight of her life if that was her intention.

She then says the son is depressed I did not take him to the game with me. Again, did not argue with her, simply told her you are the one that created this monster, I guess if you didnt have a boyfriend that screwed our marriage up we wouldnt be talking about this now, told her I was not going to argue with her after she said that is not true, and hung up,,, FOGGED OUT MORON.

Well, she calls two more times, I see it on the caller ID and dont answer. She sends me a e-mail stating that she would like to talk to me about our son when he is not around. I told her to refer to the letter (plan B letter) which I wrote her explaining that I would not talk to her till this nonsense is over.

TMCM, your tooo damned good, tell me oh psyhic one, what am I in store for next from her.