I had some time so I thought I would just check this forum out. I have seen alot of "going from Plan A to plan B" around here after only a relatively short amount of time. Why the rush to move to Plan B?

Let me try to explain a little first with a disclaimer. If your WS is still seeing OP and not ending the A then by all means go to Plan B. No questions asked there.

Now if your spouse has started NC then Plan A is in order. Right? First off plan A can really suck at times. No two ways about it. We are all told that plan A is for the BS to get healthy and strong in order to work on the marriage. It is an opportunity to work on the faults that we have that led to some dissatisfaction from the WS that helped enable them to stray. Plan A is for the BS, im my opinion, to realize what they did wrong in the marriage and reverse that if they can. Neglagence, procrastination, selfcenteredness, whatever. All I might add were a part of my wonderful personality before DDay. At the same time it is a time for you to create a safe environment for your WS to live in post DDAy. What I mean by safe is that this is a time where they can start to reflect on what they did and who they are without the pressure of the BS constantly asking "how could you?" or "Do you love me?", or demanding that they change overnight and become the loving spouse that you need. Chances are that they didn't stray overnight (the majority anyway). It took many months or years of an unhappy marriage before the A occured. So why all the pressure to change in a month, two months, or even six months? It isn't going to happen. At least not in my expierence.

Plan A is ongoing. It will be very painful at times as you are doing everything you can to meet your WS needs while getting nothing in return. Heck you may not even know what thier needs are unless they spell them out for you in bold print. Which, unfortunetly, seldom occurs. I have seen here that some BS's are tired of the limbo or roommates syndrome that occurs for several months after DDay and want to pursue plan B by either leaving or having then leave the home. My suggestion is that you should do anything and everything to keep both spouses under the same roof. It will do no good to have on leave and then work on the marriage. (Again this doesn't apply to those WS who are still seeing OP or are abusive).

You have to realize that the WS has a ton of crap going on in thier heads as well even though you may not see it or they won't tell you. Guilt, anger, withdrawl and a multitude of other emotions. This is why a safe environment is essential at first for the WS. You are trying to meet thier needs as best you can and good for you. However if meeting their needs comes with expectations then you are going to be dissapointed more than not. You have to go into Plan A with no expectations save one. That is that you are becoming the person that you want to be. It takes work. Believe me. You may not think that the WS notices the changes you are making or the EN's that you are meeting for them. They notice!! They just don't show you. It takes time. Alot of time.

A brief example of myself may or may not help explain. My dday was last October. My sixth anniversary if you could believe that one. For the previous 12 months we were trying to have a child. I was told in late September that my wife didn't think our marriage was strong enough to have children. I like many times before let that tid bit of information fly right over my head and responded with a sarcastic statement. DDay on our annivesary really wasn't a true DDay per say. She told me that she wasn't happy and that maybe we needed some time alone. Well at this point I saw the light. I woke up one morning and saw all the things that I did wrong in our relationship of 10 years. Dawn broke on my marble skull. I started to do a Plan A when I didn't even know what it was. It wasn't until a week later that I discovered by overhearing a convesation that she was having with a friend that she was seeing OM from work. Yes I heard the "We are soul mates" stuff and how wonderful he was and all of that crap. It killed me. I couldn't catch my breath. Heart rate spike for three days. I confronted her and she denied it. It wasn't until I spoke the words that she said on the phone right back to her that she fessed up. She cried but would never say that she was going to end it. The next week we went to a marriage counselor together. Only I was the only one there. She was there in body but her mind was way away.

Fast forward about 3 weeks. She said that she would stop contact with him. Hard to do since she worked with him though. I had a business trip and she took some time and visited her brother across the country. I was a wreck the whole time. When I got back I picked her up at the airport and she was still very cold towards me. I found out the next week by searching the computer that she was still in contact with him. I read the emails and it made me sick to my stomach. I confronted her again and she denied it until I read words back to her from the emails.

Back for some more counselling. Which actually sucked for many reasons. Make sure you pick a counsellor who wants to help the marriage instead of preparing you for an friendly divorce. Anyway a week later my wife freaks out because the OM got layed off from work. Yippee for me but devastating for her. I tried to actually console her because I knew this was a devastating blow to her. Her world was crashing down. We had counselling that night and she basically said that she wanted to seperate. She had been saying this on and off for about a month now. At this point I had found this site and started to try and practice some of the theories here. More on that later.

Well she did leave on the day before Thanksgiving, but returned on Christmas Eve. Worst month of my life. I was a train wreck. Thank God for this site. I was posting on the recovery forum at the time and really shouldn't have been since I was far from recovery. However those people over there helped me tremedously.

When my wife came back is when the true Plan A started for me. Before then I was all about asking questions about OM or if she loved me. If she would ever love me again. You see I neglected her big time. I wasn't mean really, but I was too selfcentered for my own good. It tooks its toll and has been hell trying to make amends. Once I found this site I was soaking everything up. I bought the books, His Needs Her Needs and Surviving and affair. I started one on one counselling with Steve Harley. I was going to learn all there was to learn about marriage and how to FIX it. I made a mistake though. I was trying to edjucate my wife on what I was learning. Trying, almost forcing her to do this with me. EN's? Please.... I told her all about this and then some. If she could only do this or only do that then all would be well I thought. Well life just doesn't work like that folks. There is no time line to follow. No 12 step program that needs to take place.

For the first month of her being back home it was total hell. I was walking on eggshells trying not to ofend her all the while doing the best damn Plan A I could. Change from being the neglectful, selfcenterred SOB that I was. However I still had expectations. Yea I wanted to get some feedback on how I was doing. I wanted to get some of my EN's met. I wanted a damn smile. I got nothing. So I came here and vented my butt off. Was I thinking of packing it all in? No. That would have been too easy. I told my wife as much. At first I would get her into a conversation about us every day then every other day then once a week. The conversation always ended the same way. She didn't know what she wanted. Yes she was still in NC. Had been since a few days before Christmas. However she was going through severe withdrawls even though she wouldn't admit it to me after I said I understood that she was. She was still extremely angry at me for all the damage I had done over the years. The anger was outright. She didn't yell at me or anything but it was just under the surface boiling. During all these conversations about how well I was doing she would remember a time that I said or did something that upset her. Man I just couldn't win I thought.

Well as the months went by I tried to do stuff that was fun. Something that would make her smile without the strings of the marriage attached. Do things that we haven't done before. Instead of being a couch potatoe I would get up and do stuff with her. This got us out and we had time alone to start making new memories. We would go to alot of dinners, movies, bowling (which we never did), started going to the gym together instead of seperatly like we had been doing for years. When the weather got nicer we would go to a lake and stuff like that. Basically stuff out of the norm and stuff that would be fun.

Mind you during all this time I was changing. She on the other hand I really couldn't tell. She would certainly appear to be having fun and she probably was. However there still was no affection from her and certainly no SF. I was reacing monk status. I would have my times where my patience was running really thin and then I would try to engage her into a conversation about us. I was getting pretty good about not doing this too ofter. At one point we went 6 weeks without discussing us. Well in early May, after a conversation or rather during one, she stated that she though we should still get seperated. What!?!?!?!? I thought. No, she still wasn't in contact with the OM. She just didn't know if she could ever love me like a wife should. Well I had basically had it at this point. I just said that she had to do what she had to do and I backed off. For the next couple of days she kept putting off a conversation she wanted to have with me. I kept saying "whatever". When she wanted to talk she would. In the meantime I wasn't mean and I didn't stop the Plan A. I just relaxed a lot more and took life as it came. Day by day. Yes in the back of my mind I was contemplating divorce. Not that I would ask for it but what I would do and how I would handle it. House, finances, stuff like that.

Well the conversation never came. Instead she became happier. Go figure. This was 6 months after DDay folks. A long time. Certainly more time then I thought. Still no SF and marginally more affection. I kept telling myself to look back a month or so and compare our situation. If it was better today then it was yesterday then I was happy. That is all you can do. Make tomorrow better then today.

Around this time we were talking about buying a pool, furniture and doing house projects. Well I basically told her that I was on the sideline here. I was not going to persue her like I had done before. She had to deal with this in her own way. I said that I certainly wasn't going to be spending any great amounts of money if our future was up in the air. Stuff like this I think got her attention. I was more confident and no where near as needy as I once was.

Well in about a month after that she brough up going away for a long weekend together. Huh?? I thought. I said something like that would be nice and then filed it away and didn't pursue it. About a week later she mentioned it again so this time I took it serious and we planned something together. Still no SF at this point. Heck I hadn't even gotten or given a real kiss in 10 months. So we took off for the long weekend with plenty of activities. Mountain biking, sightseeing and nice resturaunts. Not to mention a really nice suite over looking the ocean.

Well some long hard work of patience and learing from my mistakes pulled off. SF!!!!! Not the best in the world since we were so damn nervous but it was great all the same. We had a great long weekend and came home. This was 3 weeks ago.

Now you may think that the story is all over. Well, no it wasn't. When we came home I saw something change in her. The walls were slowly coming back. Even though we had sex she still wasn't very affectionate. I was at a loss. I thought that we had jumped the final hurdle. So the day before the 4th of July I couldn't take it anymore and started a conversation. I wanted to know if this limbo land was going to end. Period. Well she basically said that it is still hard for her to go out of her way to be affectionate with me. However for the first time in 10+ months she told me that she wants to fall in love with me and spend the rest of her life with me. She just doesn't know how to get the feelings back. Well I took this as good news because it was. For the first time she said what she wanted. We talked for a couple of hours and then ended it.

3 days ago I drove to where she worked and put a simple card under her wiper. That card enabled us to have sex that night. It was better and easier then the previous time. We weren't as nervous and it showed. Still some nervousness but getting easier. Has the final hurdle been leaped? I don't know. But thats not important. Was that day better then the day before? Yup it was.

So folks, as you see patience is an art form. I was the most impatient person I knew. If I can do it then anyone can. That is all Plan A needs. Patience. Don't be to quick to jump to plan B because things aren't going as you planned. Expectations can kill recovery. You will always be let down. All you can do is control what you can control and that is yourself. Make each and everyday a little better then the day before. Yes you will have some set backs but that is OK. Look at your relationship a month ago or two and compare it to today. I'll be more times then not it is better today. Create that safe environment for your S. Don't try to edjucate them. If they ask for help or ideas then you can answer them with the help that they are looking for. Stay away from the constant "why me" or "how could you" questions. That will get you nowhere. Its done. The A was the syptom and not the disease. That is important to remember. The WS has 100% of the blame for the A but both of you have your share of the blame for the state of the marriage. Someone has to make the first step in repairing it and unfortunetly for a while it is going to be the BS. Fair? Hell no. But it is reality.

I guess that is it. I just had to write something after lurking here and seeing how many people want to jump to Plan B because the WS isn't responding the way the BS wants them to if they have ended all contact with the OP. I hope I didn't offend anyone. No two recoveries are alike. That is for sure. This is just my take and expierence.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Mark10/13/96:
<strong>I guess that is it. I just had to write something after lurking here and seeing how many people want to jump to Plan B because the WS isn't responding the way the BS wants them to if they have ended all contact with the OP. I hope I didn't offend anyone. No two recoveries are alike. That is for sure. This is just my take and expierence.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am glad you lurked and actually you should voice out your opinion directly to that thread. Actually decision going to plan B is not about WS not ending A, it is about to protect recovery. Sometime BS itself has to show and convinced WS about plan A ... and that means BS is competeing with OP ... and in no condition BS should go to plan B !. I am in contact with "Alan Arthur", he is in plan A regardless what WW is doing .... he has to until the end of M, he was clueless about R. However there are cases where WS is addicted to Alcohol, plan B has to be done asap, regardless of Plan A. There are cases where BS are not "clueless" about R (not even 50% responsible for the situation lead to A) and missing/void ENs is not the reason either, the faster BS is going to plan B is the better.

Again I think you should post directly to the thread!. I got "fried" several time by many MBer but I still tell it like it is and I have no ill intention. If they don't want your post then move on.

I am glad you post your profile, recovery is hard but your M survive the A. And I am also beleive that one should get conseling with MB before walk into plan B. To review plan A and to get coaching when to go to plan B. I did it with SH and I think it is worth every ¢ of it. My M didn't survive A but I survive the A and have no regeret.

-rh-

Mark--

If patience is an art form, then you, my friend, are the master painter in that area! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Glad to hear things keep looking up.

Hi Mark10/13/96,

I'm so inspired by your experience.

I'm currently being seperated from my H. One fine day, he woke and told me that he doesn't have feelings for me anymore.

For the past 6 months, he has been helping his dad pack up the family business and sort of the financial mess. Now he has to pick himself up and run his own business. My H feels that throughout these few months, he hasn't been able to tell me his problems and slowly he lost the feelings for me too.

All these were very shocking to me as I bought him a hotel stay for his birthday one month ago and thought we had fun. However, my H confessed that he felt trapped and didn't enjoy himself throughout the whole weekend!

I am currently staying at my mum's because my H says that we should think about this seperately. He also feels uncomfortable seeing me or talking to me.

I have moved out for about 2 weeks already and is dying to move home. However, I mentioned to my H that I will give him a break from the marriage so that he can concentrate on building his business.

At this point in time, I'm desperate to save my M. After reading your experience, I feel inspired that I also can do it.

At the moment, I just drop home (when he is at work) once in awhile to stock the fridge and pack some stuff (building my Love Deposits). I am still in the process of identifying his ENs.

I am giving myself 1 or 2 more weeks before I move home slowly. I guess I can imagine myself like you walking on eggshells. This is one area I have to remind myself constantly.

I will work hard to identify the issues in Plan A and put them into action when I shift home.

Thank you so much for the inspiration!

Mark,

The timing of your post was unbelievable. DDay for me was 6/2/03 and I've been an emotional wreck. My wife and I are now living in our house together again after both of us moved out at different times for about 2 weeks each. Living in the same house has been encouraging but also very difficult. I, like you, have been trying to get my WW to read books and talk and understand what I've learned. Sometimes I feel like it has helped her and other times I feel like I'm pressuring her. It's such a fine line!! Patience is very difficult!! I keep questioning myself on why I'm still trying when I'm not getting anything out of her. I understand that she is going through a tough time and sometimes I think I've been too understanding. I do it though because I love her to death and I want us to repair our M. We both know what we've done wrong in the past but she's not ready to start working on us yet.

After reading your post, I came to realize that I have a lot of expectations of her and our marriage going forward. It's hard not to!! But you're right, when you have those expectations, you set yourself up for disappointment. When going through plan A, you have to know that you cannot change your WS, you can only hope and pray that they want the same thing as you.

Thanks again for your post!! Please keep us updated on your progress.

WW - 30
Me - 27
Married 3 years
DDay - 6/2/03
Hoping and praying for my wife back.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"We are all told that plan A is for the BS to get healthy and strong in order to work on the marriage. It is an opportunity to work on the faults that we have that led to some dissatisfaction from the WS that helped enable them to stray. Plan A is for the BS, im my opinion, to realize what they did wrong in the marriage and reverse that if they can."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes Plan A does offer you the opportunity to do this BUT the goal of Plan A, according to Dr Harley, is to negotiate an end to the A by avoiding love busters (angry outbursts, selfish demands, and disrespectful judgements) and by demonstrating a willingness to meet unfulfilled EN's. It is NOT about the BS becoming a doormat for part of Plan A also includes, exposing the A to those closest to the BS, WS, and OP, when the A is still ongoing. Plan A seems to work best on WS's that do not have deep anger or resentment towards the BS, do not want to leave the BS for the OP, and whose A has ended or is on it's last days. Sadly, many BS that have a remorseful and repentant WS become so wrapped up on the pain of betrayal that they become addicted to it and have a hard time of letting go of it. These BS's need professional counseling to help them to become free of the anger they feel for their FWS otherwise they won't be able to apply any of the Harley principles to save their marriages.