Ok,

Here's the situation.

We've been married for almost 6 years and together for about 7.5. I'm 32, she's 36 and we've got a 5 year old daughter plus an 18 year old (step)son from her previous marriage.

Since early last year she has been going out to horse sales, with my knowledge with a 60 year old married man on a purely platonic basis. So I trusted them. However, since the end of last year and until a few weeks ago we were against the wall financially, had loads of DIY to do to finish the house we'd been working on for the last 2.5 years and I was concentrating on a career instead her because I needed to get a job with good money to keep us going.

Unfortunately, during this period we both turned in to "Takers" and the "Givers" subsided as the pressure of the situation took over. I guess I must have gone seriously in to the red in her "Love Bank" because she told me 3 weeks ago that deeply loves the other man, wants to be with him and he has reciprocated the feelings and is leaving his wife.

I've tried being nice, but this just annoys her and she says it makes her lose respect for me and that I need to accept what's happening because she's definitely going to go off with the other man as soon as the DIY is done (probably another couple of weeks) and the house sold (or sooner if things deteriorate). She will not bargain at all. She wants to make no efforts to recover the marriage as she is purely focused on the other man and not me, regardless of the effect on our young daughter - "she'll cope" is her opinion.

So regardless of all this, I still want to get back with her. How stupid am I? Well, we'll see. I suppose I'm looking for advice because the refilling the love bank through niceness and resonableness is not working - she just sees it as weak and that I should get on with my life.

I think the emotional needs I've missed on are:
conversation (I've only had time to work or do the DIY to get the house finished)
Recreational companionship (I do enjoy her hobbies, but never made an effort with them, whereas the other man is heavily in to the same thing -horse riding and dealing)

So do I abandon it? I don't want to, but there's an aweful lot of pain involved in pursuing her.

Welcome to MB. Judging from your post you have read and undestood well MB. That is good. I would try to give my 2¢ to your thread.

Her A is an exit A. You have to deal with it with that mind frame. My ExW did the same, we have very similiar situation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>So regardless of all this, I still want to get back with her. How stupid am I? Well, we'll see. I suppose I'm looking for advice because the refilling the love bank through niceness and resonableness is not working - she just sees it as weak and that I should get on with my life.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are not stupid, you just love her too much. Remember this is Exit A, so it is actually not about OM it is about you. She uses OM to end this M, regardless what she said. She doesn't want you to be nice b/c she would feel guilty leaving you. She will try to push your button and exhausted you until you give up. Don't pursue, don't beg but be civil and show changes to her. If she rejects your plan A ... show your changes via your D & S. Basically you should have a goal of "ammending" her of your previous mistake. It would seems you enable her A ... yes, it is. You have no choice if you want your M or your sanity after Dv.

Try to remember what she said to you before d-day and after d-day .... prove her wrong !!!!!. If your M won't survive her A ... you will survive this. If you try to plan B or abandon this M ... you will bring this baggage with you in your next R. I had been there.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>So do I abandon it? I don't want to, but there's an aweful lot of pain involved in pursuing her.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Remember it is not about her ... it is about you fixing the past mistake, the condition that lead to this. You should not pursue her in words, just actions. If she doesn't receive it (rejects it) then give it to your D & S. You are not "pursuing her" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . Learn to talk Foggese ... talk babble to her. "I understand that our M is over but we still could be civil & "freind" ". Show her you are that "freind" that she was fallin in love with when you are in honeymoon <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

-rh-

Hang in there.

I know what your going through. Mid March my wife confessed and left to pursue other man who was also married.

I did all I could in plan "A" when I could but only got a cold non-emotional responce from my WW. One day she's my wife and the next she's the ice queen and I'm the badguy for some reason.

Well my wifes affair ended around the end of MAy and she went no-contact on me. Its been 6 weeks and I've heard nothing.

Don't expect your wife to repond to your good deeds mine didn't. I think all she's trying to do is discourage you because inside she knows what your doing is with love and respect.

Don't try and tell your wife what she's doing is wrong or the concequences as she will likely see this as manipulative and controling. She's smart enough to know what she's doing is wrong.

Do tell all your family and friends about the Affair. Contact the other man's wife and verify that they are actualy splitting up and confirm the affair with her. She may think her husband is just leaving.

Get some books on infidelity and read this site. everything your going through has been felt or experianced by someone here.

Four months ago when my wife left I was a zombie. When I found this site about three months ago I thought I would never get through this tragedy. But I read the site, got some books, felt the pain, got some Meds, counsling, and did anything and everything I could think of to get out of the rut.

Now this may seem strange but since my wife left forcing me to heal alone when I felt emotional I vented as though she was in the room talking to myself or I wrote my feelings down. Then I went and did something. Walk,run, pick up a coffee etc. Wierd maybe but it worked big time.

Protect your daughter and never use her as a pawn. Don't slam your wife for what she's done as what you tell family and friends today may haunt you tommorrow. Take the high road and you will always have the respect of everyone around you.

Stay away from the booze. Its a natural depressant.

As for you remember that your wife was one part of your life not your whole world. You still have family, friends, job, daughter, hobbies, etc. Your life will go on regardless of your wifes decissions.

It is important that you do two things.
First, take care of the kids, especially your D. Be the best dad that you can be. They both will need to see a role model and it is not going to be your WW.
Second, contact the OMW ASAP! In my case the OM told my WW the same thing yours is hearing; that his W knew of the A and that he was leaving her. Turns out his W had no idea, and the day she found out OM called WW and ended the affair. OM is still with his W.

Thanks for your replies....

Redhat,

Thanks for that. I'm sure you're right about not wanting to be nice to avoind feeling too guilty - I thought the same thing yesterday. I'm now going through the motions of making ti clear she was and is my best friend and that by clearing time, I am doing the same hobbies as her.
Not sure if it will work, but I guess I'll need hobbies to fill my time if and when we do split.

Goodguy,

Sounds like a similar situation - and you're spot on with the alcohol thing. I have avoided it like the plague since a few days after she told me. I'm also keeping a notebook of the things I want to say to her (but trying to keep it positive), but won't to avoid the possibility of a confrontation. As for your wife not contacting you, that's a bit sad because I suppose I am keeping the faint hope that she might come back if it doesn't work out with the other man....but I suppose now is the time for reality checks and this should be one of mine.

23down,

Know what you mean, but the other wife does know. But i'm still holding out the hope that either mine or her actions will cause a rift in the affair...........

In the meantime, I'm trying to reach an acceptance of the split, but still keeping wifey as my best friend for as long as possible. The only danger I see to this is that if anything happens to the affair, then I may be seen as more of a "friend" than her husband.

I hate this situation..........

Adam,

Don't forget to write down the bad feelings/emotions you have. You must go through all the emotional stages of grieving for yourself to become stronger. Write them down today and look at them from time to time. It's a great way to vent and look at your progress from week to week.

It's funny at times because when I looked back at some things I wrote and thought it was though I was in a Fog as a result of my wifes affair. Not really thinking rationaly at times.

As your wife has also left you will likely not see the end of the affair comming. One day it may just happen. Remember this - Don't be at all surprised if the day you thought should be a great event spins you backwards into a roller coaster of emotion. And your wife acts out towards you almost like all her pain is your fault.

Wow.

Just read "Plan A is not for the weak of heart". I definitely plan to stick to Plan A and also become the person I'm happy with - I think I changed to being quite selfish and work-driven. So regardless of what wifey does, at least I'll be someone I'll be happier to be.

you are a fast learner "young grasshopper" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . I took me several months for me & 2x4 from SH <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> . -rh-

Redhat, thanks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I had a night in reading the Bob Hueizenger (or however it's spelt <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) and here last night and the fog has cleared.

YES!!

I realised that if it hadn't been for the affair, this would have actually been the turning point in time for us both, as everything that had been on top of us for the last year or so has finally been sorted out. So I realised that I was actually in a position where I can see a good life ahead of me with or without her, so my attitude is "I'd rather it be with you, but it'll still be a great life without you". I'm only 32, so I'm pretty lucky to be able to see such stability spread out for the future.

I also realised that all the character traits I regard highly I already have. So no need to change. I now understand myself as someone who naturally takes the blame for things to cover for others. But not this time. I was communicating with her, but she still had the affair. Time for HER to face up to her actions.

Thanks for the advice all. This site has been a sanity saver.

Just a note. Her getting mad when you are nice to her means that she is noticing and that it bugs her because it is inconsistent with the way she views you. This is a really good sign, if you want to stay married. Make her mad, if you can do it by being nice (within limits, of course). The best thing is if you can be nice in a way that does not seem like pursuit. If that makes her mad, it's fantastic. Normally, when WS's stray, they re-construct reality in their heads, blaming the BS for all sorts of things, and come up with a view of the BS that is much more negative than reality. If your actions contradict that reality, it disturbs them. This is a good thing. If they really did not care at all, they would not get upset.

There is some more reading about Plan A in the link in my signature line (see the Zorweb link) that you will probably find helpful. I also thik this kind of Reverse Babble might work well for you: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Examples of reverse babble: (blessings to you Orchid...)

WS: I need my own space.

Reverse babble (RB): Yes you do.

WS: I love you but I am not in love with you.

RB: Yes, me too.

WS: You need to move on.

RB: Yes I do. Here is a list of what I need.
1. All bills paid
2. New home, new furniture, etc.
3. New car
4. All Ens met for entire family
5. Children's education all paid for
6. Guaranteed alimony for life
7. Guarantee that you will never be difficult
to deal with.
8. WS meet with Steve/Jennifer or MC and
then show family how WS will keep the
family safe from any harm.
9. WS guarantee he/she will be there to
support family through good times and bad
10. WS never demand anything other than what
the family requests.
11. WS not put demands on family or stress them
out in any way shape or form.
those above are priceless...

Quit power struggling and do not for one iota of a second let him convince you that irrational thinking is rational.

It is a great defense mechanism of WS...to attempt to convince others that threaten their "world" that unrealistic and stupid thoughts are true and acceptable...

they aren't....but you can't argue them so don't...

Part of reverse babble is to agree, then present something while the WS may be in a state of confusion or wonderment (shocked or confused at your being agreeable). Get in your point and them exit ASAP. Don't say too much. Sometimes I used to nod yes and say no or visa versa. Sounds silly? Well my H was sooo much in the fog, he would just shake his head and walk away. About 2 hours to 2 weeks later I would get a response.

I learned not to take his babble to heart. Eventually I learned to put back some of his responsibility on him.

example:

WS: Go get the D. I don't want to be married to you anymore.

RB: Me too. Go get the D.

WS: Why won't you talk to me? (I was in plan B). Don't you love me?

RB: Hm.... I don't know. Let me get back to you on that.

WS: Where is all the $$ I gave you?

RB: I don't know.

WS: Do you want me to come back?

RB: I don't know.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is not a Halrey technique, just something one of the posters used that helped her. Others have said that agreeing with them has driven their WS's crazy.

John,

Thanks for that. My tactic so far has been to be nice, but not gushing, act happy and helpful all the time, go out as much as possible, look for a girlfriend (let's see how she takes it when she sees I'm truly getting on with my life <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) and push ahead with the divorce.

So far I think it's starting to phase her, although it's very difficult to tell because she's very stubborn. But one thing that I think did phase her was originally I wasn't going to tell my parents and sister about the OM, to save bad feelings at future meetings between them for the sake of my daughter. However, over the last couple of days I HAVE and I've let her know as much, too. She's also querying how much I must have loved her since I appear to be getting on with my life so well and pushing ahead with the divorce.

As well as here, I've been reading up on Homer McDonald and Bob Huizenga and I have to admit that for me, it's a combination of techniques from each that I think will be most effective.

The most important thing for me is that although I'd prefer to have her back, I'm prepared to get on with my life without her. PHEW!!

There is a fine line between the detachment necessary to survive and not caring. Dating is a bad idea, it will divide your heart. That is your wife's problem right now. Do you really want to go where she is? That doesn't mean it is bad for her to THINK you are dating - but I would not lie to her.

The other really difficult thing is balancing your ability to and desire to fight for her - and this IS a battle - and your ability to move on. I think what you want to convey is your ability to move on, and your desire to restore your marriage.

But, i want to be clear - this is a spiritual and emotional battle, and I found I could not fight it alone. I needed God's help.

I agree with John that dating is not a good idea. You are very vulnerable right now and adding another woman in your life would only complicate things further. Besides, it is cruel to use another human being as a tool to get back at another person. Consider following Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list instead:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic.
23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Thanks for all the comments - it all helps.

Just an update, I've come to the conculsion that what I've seen in her over the last few weeks has made me realise I don't think she's the woman for me. It's very sad for our daughter, because I was, and intended to be, happy with my wife for the rest of my life.

But I've had my eyes opened to how selfish she can be and it has brought to my fore-thoughts how she has a tendency to run away when things get tough - I want a stronger person than that as my partner.

I also feel I can best serve my daughter away from her, as I can show her what relationships SHOULD be like, not what she sees from her mother's actions.

Just to add, I don't think my wife ever realised just how deeply I felt towards her - I didn't until this happened.

But then I also don't think she realised just how much strength I could muster to handle the situation. But then I was backed in to a corner and had to, just for self-survival and for our daughter.

I hope others can take strength from this, because I was a complete mess for a while until I realised I still had obligations to myself and my daughter. So regardless of what was happening, I found strength in realising I am a whole person in my own right, but with the added responsibility of a daughter to protect.

To all those who read this and feel desperate about losing their partner, and that there is just a black whole ahead without them, look inside yourself. There is a whole person and a whole life in there. Your partner is just someone lucky enough to be sharing part of it with you.

And if you see something inside that you're not happy with, then change it for yourself, not anyone else, because you don't have to live with someone else, but you DO have to live with yourself.

AdamH,

For ExitA, two point gauges how long WS would get out of the fog. It depends how skillfull her OM is and how long she was felt hurt by you. In my case OM is skillfull, he knew kinnda MB principal to keep R from his previous conseling from his adultery. I could wait a long time ... I decided not to. A starts showing a crack. I don't know your situation but it would takes a while for her to get out of the fog.

-rh-

AdamH.....Im not sure how this will help, but just think....you are 32yrs old, your wife is 36....dude is 60!!!......60! Has your WW even thought about the future one bit??? What happens when ol dude is 70 or 80 (if he lives that long) and she is still a relatively young woman?? She is obviously in a romantic fog! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />