Hello. I've been here for a while now but haven't posted much lately.

I am (supposively) in Plan A right now. I'm confused as to what I'm really supposed to do in it. I thought it was about working on "ME" and making him see the changes. I see that Cerri has said in her replies that this is the Faux Plan A.

I don't have much contact with my H. Last time I saw him was about 2 weeks ago and last time I talked to him (on the phone) was 5 days ago. I feel fine when I don't see him but I'm afraid that it is not helping any. How is he supposed to want to come back when we don't even see each other? I DO love him and miss him very much and am being patient but I feel like I'm going to be waiting forever! I don't know what his current feeling are about us but he's said before that he does not want anything to do with me anymore (and I understand it was FOG talk). Him and OW split about 4 weeks ago but they still have contact (since they work together) and over the phone (saw on cell phone bill). What am I doing wrong? What else do I need to do? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

H98

hopeful98,

You go into plan B when WS rejects your plan A. Having said that, what is your plan A actions ?. Does he acknowledge your changes ? ... if you have both of them square off. It is time to write a plan B letter and get a plan B logistic in place. One last question, is this A is and exit A ?. It doesn't sound like it.

I know it is a hard decision but it has to be this way otherwise you would have problem in your reconsiliation and step toward fullfilling M.

Could you afford conseling with MB ?. You might need professional help.

-rh-

Thanks for your reply RedHat.

I don't have much of an opportunity to Plan A and since I don't see him I don't know if he's rejecting it. I just don't even know what he's up to.

I've already met with him once and admitted my faults in the marriage and asked forgiveness. He said he had heard everything I told him but that he wished me the best in my life (I know, fog talk) and pretty much for me to move on. He did recognize all the faults we had and even said he had written his own list (but never showed it to me). I'm sure he's noticed my changes, and if he hasn't I know people have told him about them. I've been very nice to him and always make sure I look good when I see him. I don't jump to his every request but I do work on them. Everytime he talked to me about getting his own car, his own insurance, getting me off his cell phone bill....etc. I just politely agree with whatever he wants to do. I know I can't force him to do anything anyways. My attitude really has changed alot. I've learned alot of patience but not sure how much longer I'll be able to keep it up. I still love him very much so I don't see the real need for Plan B just yet (correct me if I'm mis-understanding).

No, I don't think this was an Exit A. Being married so young, I think he just panicked in the marriage. I don't truly believe he just stopped loving me one day. I know OW had alot to do with it 'cause it did start as an EA. She played with his mind.

How can I go to Plan B and threaten him to have no contact with me until he decides to leave OW when he doesn't even want to work things out with me?? I don't understand how that will work. I'd just feel foolish doing so.

Right now, I really can't afford counseling with MB. I'm hoping to get my own apartment soon and am saving up. Currently living with my parents and that always 'caused problems in our Marriage.
I want to show him that I CAN move on without him and maybe some fog will clear.

Do I have Plan A correct? What else can I do?

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated. I'm starting to get a bit desperate. Thanks.

H98

hopeful98,

How is your M prior to D-day ? A lot of kodak moment or struggle from the get go ?.

What do you know about xOW ? Why they broke up ?. What are ENs that xOW fillin ?.

The last contact with WH, what is that all about ?.

Have A exposed already ? who knows about this ?

Plan A is about negotiating with WS. Most of A happens b/c neglect of ENs & tons of LBs, thus you have to fix that part ... thus you have to work on yourself !. Basically you do plan A to show WS that you are capable to change or has changed ... taking any reasons to leave or not to come back. Plan A actions list are direct answer to his complaint before d-day and fact about you that WS uses as excuse to have A. No direct contact is hard but as long as WS knows it ... you are fine. I have 2 D that I could show the changes to. You might have MIL/FIL or common circle of freinds.

Now let's go back to your plan A. Starts with what are his complaints about you before d-day then what are his excuse about you to have A. What have you done so far ?

-rh-

<small>[ July 22, 2003, 07:07 PM: Message edited by: redhat ]</small>

redhat,

M was good before D-day. We had LOTS of kodak moments (and I have all the proofs). My parents where always very strict and M for me was FREEDOM! My H, on the contrary, lost his freedom. We didn't struggle throughout our (almost) 5 years together. One thing we both failed at very badly, was Communication. We never had it. That's why I never knew he was unhappy. This was all a shock to me on D-day! I never imagined he'd EVER leave me!

xOW is a single mom (D5). I actually met her a few weeks before he left. The reason they split is because her parents don't like my H and don't want them together. I guess she was meeting his Communication need. That's how it all started with her.

He recently traded in his Truck for a car but since my name was on the lease, I had to go to the dealership and sign. That was the last contact (by phone) that we had. He called to see if I had gone already. The last time I actually saw him was at my best friends house. She recently had a baby and he dropped by to visit and I happen to be there. We didn't talk at all, just said hello and good-bye. (after being there for 2 hours)

Yes, pretty much everybody knows. (family, friends, church members) He exposed the A himself. He even took her to a church activity at the park on a Sunday. Everyone was just in disbelief. He introduced her as his GF.

How do I negotiate with him if he doesn't want to come back? Yes, I realize A's happen because of neglect of EN's but how can I change that now that he is gone? I think moving out of my parents is an EXCELLENT way of showing him that I am changing. I've always been very dependent of someone else, and if I live by myself, I will learn to be independent. I used to depend on him ALOT for almost EVERYTHING. He liked it at first but then got tired of doing everything for me. (calling, asking, going....etc)

He's never given me an excuse for his A 'cause he doesn't consider it one. He just said that he didn't want any commitment and that he wanted to be able to go out whenever he wanted, with whoever he wanted withouth having to check in. (which he NEVER did anyways) I don't understand why he even said that.

My MIL has been a great person to tell of my changes but she just recently re-married and is pretty busy now. She used to have alot of extra time to spend with me but she doesn't anymore. She's got a hubby now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> We don't have that many friends that we both see now. Actually, we have alot of friends but they never see him anymore. He's vanished from everyone's life but his mother's (cause he lives with her) and xOW (they still work together).

He never told me of any complaints he had about me. (no communication) I'm pretty sure he had some but I don't know of them. I don't even know what his top 5 EN's are. What else can I do here?

Thanks for you help!

H98

Hopeful98,

You mention that he lost his freedom ... did he date a lot of women before he marry you ?. Is he resentfull of M ?. How he agreed to married you ... i.e how he asked you ?. How long before he proposed to you ?. Just curious.

He sound like a conflict avoidant man to me. He shot himself in the foot by bringing xOW around and introduce her as GF. He probably ashame of what he is doing but ashame to go back. He shut you down with NC because of the hurt that he cause to you and himself. He can't go around with common freinds of yours & him. Like you say, he world is shrinking and see if he likes it.

You are right about you can't plan B, it will make it easier for him ... you end it. IMVHO, you could do 180 degree. Usually work for WH and with good history of M. Yes, I agree with you moving out from your parent house. It is about time isn't it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . It is part of your 180 (modified plan A).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hopeful98:
<strong>He never told me of any complaints he had about me. (no communication) I'm pretty sure he had some but I don't know of them. I don't even know what his top 5 EN's are. What else can I do here?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Guess his ENs ... I could guess one of them must be admirations. He likes doing thing for you because probably you "blow" his ego but when you don't ... those requests or things he used to do for you were gone. Wht happen with xOW ?, did she make your H felt as kinght in shining armored ?. Print out ENq and use it to guess his ENs. Think hard if his eyes lits up and he does something nice in return ... if he felt happy on your actions ... those are the clue of his ENs.

-rh-

Redhat,

When I say freedom, I mean by being able to make his OWN decisions without having to decide with someone else. No, he never dated. I was actually his first gf. I don't think he's resentful of the M. He said he realized, after talking to xOW, that there were things in his life he still wanted to do. I still don't know what those may be, 'cause he hasn't done anything but destroy everything he had. We actually both decided we wanted to get married. We dated for 9 months (after being friends for about 6 years) and then got engaged. 7 months after, we got married.

He doesn't like his shrinking world but you're probably right, he's too ashamed of what he's done that he's ashamed to come back. He confessed to a Church lady that all he had wanted was to go out to the world and party like he'd never done before (we are both Christians) but then said that he had done that and didn't like a bit of it. He just wanted to come back to the church life. (then again, that was the first time xOW had dumped him). I guess the fog cleared for a while but then xOW called to get back together with him (she probably needed a ride to the store or something).

180 degrees? I've heard about it but never really read it. Where can I find it? I'll do anything right now. Yes, moving out of my parents house is an excellent idea. I know my H will never expect me to do so. And honestly, I don't think he'd ever come back to my parents house. My mother had a confrontation with him one time (she drove up next to him in her car while he was with OW - they were kissing) and she was FURIOUS! She called him on his cell and literally told him off. I guess I don't blame him for avoiding my parents. I avoid them myself many times. I love them, but it's time to move out.

I've done the ENq myself but now I'll try it for him. I think you might be right, one of them is admiration. I do believe xOW made him feel more manly. Let me explain. Since I'm older than him, I've always taken the role of a mother instead of wife. I was always in charge of our finances (paying our bills and keeping track of our accounts). I never really gave him much of a responsability as man of the house. I made decisions in purchasing stuff. It came to the point where he would want something but wouldn't buy it until it was ok'd by me but I wouldn't even bother asking when I wanted to buy something. I believe xOW gave him that feeling of having control and he liked it.

I can honestly say that I've learned ALOT by reading on this forum. Now I just want an opportunity to put it into action. I'm willing to do anything it will take.

hopeful98,

TMCM did a pretty good job, he has the link on his signature. 180 degrees list. Check the link on my signature about Venusian Lady CarolKH. It will get you head start.

As long as you could manage monthly rent, I would even ask parents to help you out with security deposits so it would make it faster for you to move out. I am pretty sure your mom/dad would be glad to help out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> . Call him up to help you to pick up the sofa <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ... make him feel needed and don't forget to thank him.

You are still young & have no kid ... try your best to save your M but as the side benefit, you are becoming a better person (mate <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) regardless . -rh-

Thanks Redhat!

I'm going to have a bad day today. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I just found out that H is still with OW. They were seen yesterday. She dropped him off at his mom's. Looks like she's driving his new car. (didn't even know she can drive). Perhaps they got the car together! Why Me? Why do I have to suffer so much? Man I HATE this! I hurt so much right now.

What do I do now? What CAN I do?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Hi hopeful98

I'm sorry your H is making you have such a bad time.

But listen numbers talk!

So what you have to do now? Just the same you been doing. Wait... the A will end! eventually one of both will grow tired. In the meantime you have to be stronger and prepare for the worst. I know I know it's a pain... I been there.... so right now I'm thinking FULL BLOWN PLAN B! I mean send the letter and got NC!

I don't know you might want to listen to some other advce but seems to me like your H is still very much into the A and that is making you drain the love bank pretty fast and you are hurting.... So protect yourself!

Take care

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hopeful98:
<strong>What do I do now? What CAN I do? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Take this time to better yourself, take this time to finish up your plan A, take this time to follow 180 degrees.

Your M would end if you go into plan B, you have not finish with your plan A yet. He puts NC, that is actually better ... however you have to stop snooping/inquiry about him !. You know he is "not home", you know he is out there w/ or w/o xOW. This is suck and the situation is thrust upon you. Now what R U going to do ?. Focus on 180 degrees and finish up what you have started ... move out from your parent home and probably get a better job by getting more training.

IMHO, do what he ask you to do ... separate your finances ASAP. Don't use join accounts anymore ... let the money drained out. Cancelled his name on your credit card ... let him know after you have done it. You need to protect yourself by separating finances.

This 'coaster ride is rough and don't look down (snooping/inquiring) ... it would make you throw up.

Hange in there and vent in here ... -rh-

Thank you for the encouragement and advice Redhat and Matilde.

I'm definitely going to take this time to better myself. After all, I am the only one I can change. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I will finish up my plan A and will follow 180 degrees.

I am not snooping/inquiring about him. My BIL's wife just happen to tell me this this morning. I didn't ask.

I am going to focus on 180 degrees now. Yes, I'm definitely going to move but I already make good enough money at my current job.

I went today to get my own car insurance policy. He had already gotten his. So I have one more monthly payment to make now. Yes, I will do whatever I can to take his name of off everything. Thank you for your advice.

This 'coaster ride is VERY rough and I will try not to look down anymore. (it does make me throw up) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Thank you for reading my posts and taking the time to help. I really needed to vent today and will do so more often. It really does help alot. If you have any more advice, please give.

Thanks.

H98

I don't have an update. Everything is still the same. The last time I heard about my husband was last week when he and OW were seen together.

I've been doing lots of reading here this forum and there seems to be alot of WS's coming or wanting to come home. I'm very happy for all these individuals but it makes me sad to think that mine doesn't. I know that for them just to want to come home is not enough and hard work. But I just wonder if I'll ever be in that situation. I miss him like crazy but the only thing he misses is our CATS!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

It's going to be almost 6 months since he left. I must not be doing something correct. I've read the 180 degree list but alot of those items I already do. I've actually been doing alot of them for a while already and still no results. How long is this going to take? I've prayed to God and have asked him that if my H is not the one for me, to show me now. But he never does.

I trust God and believe his word but this just seems so SLOW! I just need to keep being patient. It's just so hard!!!

H98

hopeful98,

Yes, waiting is a hard job. You should focus on what you could do ... move out !. WS won't come back if the condition of M are the same and BS should not take it either. Both have to fix what was the problem otherwise A would happen again.

When you are on others threads, post to them, are are here try to lean on each other shoulders <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

-rh-

Well, I have decided to move into Plan B. I have been posting to Cerri on Just Found Out and she suggested this is what I need. I'll start a new topic with my updates.

Thank you so much RedHat for all your help on this one!

Hope you can still help me out some!

H98