Redhat, I have seen the movie you mentioned. I know what I want and my value. On July 11, I packed all my stuffs without him in the house and walked out that door with no regrets. Though I still love him, he pushed me to choose that path. I was told by his actions that it's not worth wasting time on him. He won't leave OW. He called me next day and wanted a talk. I refused to go out and I told him that I wanted my dignity and we were over.

I exposed everything to my parents and friends and told them that our R is over. They were all shocked but they all stand by me whatever happens. I have made plans for my future and want to have a peaceful mind. I asked my sister a favour to return the house keys and records to him as I don't want to talk and see him again.

Last Monday, he called me many times (out of my expectations as I thought it's over) but I didn't pick up his calls. He sent messages to me and told me that he wants me back. He's so sorry what he did and he said he still loves me. He found out something ??? that he wants to make committment with me. He broke up with the OW. I am so important to him and please give him a chance blah, blah, blah. (Typical pattern for WS) I don't trust him. How can I believe his words? So many lies and disrepect in the past. I did nothing to his begging. I ignore him, no calls and no response. I have done so much in the past and that's enough! I don't know whether he's really sorry what he did or just he isn't used to lose me. I guess he still doesn't know what he wants. He is still in the fog. I am now testing him. If he really remorse what he have done, prove himself, do something to make me believe. If he gives up because I turned him down once, he will lose me forever.

Any insight would be much appreciated. Thanks.

As you said, the ball is in his court. Did you do a no contact letter explaining how he could win you back?

If so, then he knows the rules. I agree, the affair has to stop for the marriage to repair.

The WS needs to understand that they can't have their cake and eat it too. This is not fair to the BS.

Best of luck. He needs to think about this and if he's smart he'll do the right thing. Hugs-Jersey Girl

YWM,

I am glad you know what you want .... Now after you know his, I would like you to think it over. You still love your BF, there is still hope is both of you doing the right thing. A is not the end of R !. I would like you to list the ammends that he has to do inorder for you to get pass this A. GIVE IT TO HIM ... He doesn't have a crystal ball to read your mind. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I would like you to include NC letter to OW, accountabilities of time and money & marital conseling. Also let him know to follows 4 rules of recovery !. Go to Orlando this fall for MB weekends and visit Mickey's world too.

You are a better choice than OW ... you know it now and he just realized it.

Give it a try and also I would like you to tell him if this R is working, he has to propose to you for M and he has to convince you that before (3-6 months). In oriental culture, you have to be the wife not the GF.

-rh-

Thanks rh and new jersey for your response.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by redhat:

<strong>
I would like you to include NC letter to OW, accountabilities of time and money & marital conseling.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is it necessary for me to send NC letter to OW? I have seen a lot of samples of excellent Plan B letter but are there any samples of NC letter to OP?

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Give it a try and also I would like you to tell him if this R is working, he has to propose to you for M and he has to convince you that before (3-6 months). In oriental culture, you have to be the wife not the GF.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I give him a chance, I have to trust him. My concern is:- Does he really want to end the A and restore our R or just he is not used to live without me. I have doubts about his sincerity. I'm worrying that he will miss the OW someday and recontact her behind my back. Everything goes back to square one. If I dump him, he will beg me again. This is what my friend called 'Ping-pong' effect. She has been suffering this for many years. To my mind, if he's willing to make committment, that means he's willing to take responsiblity and focus on our R. However, marry him too soon is quite risky as I have doubts.

See what things will happen!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by YWM:
<strong>Is it necessary for me to send NC letter to OW? I have seen a lot of samples of excellent Plan B letter but are there any samples of NC letter to OP?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong>
It is not from you, it is from BF to OW. SAA book has a sample. Someone might be able to quote you here, I am out of town right now and don't have SAA with me. Basically it is straight forward no bullsh!t "break up" letter. It states that BF is no longer want any contact with OW since BF want to work on R with you. CC'ed you ... and you should deliver it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> If I give him a chance, I have to trust him. My concern is:- Does he really want to end the A and restore our R or just he is not used to live without me. I have doubts about his sincerity. I'm worrying that he will miss the OW someday and recontact her behind my back.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong>
No he has to earn his chance & trust by doing the right thing. Ask him to write NC letter, willingness to accountable for $ & time,
giving you access also email/vm password&detail billing. With time you will prove if he is marriage material and be able to make you happy. After withdrawal, if he sneeks behind you ... I would dump him in a flash. THIS IS THE LAST AND THE ONLY CHANCE. Go to conseling too.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>If I dump him, he will beg me again. This is what my friend called 'Ping-pong' effect. She has been suffering this for many years.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">[qb]
She lets him do this to her ... no one to blame but herself. I am not saying that you take him as is ... you let him earn it and there is no next time.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">[qb] To my mind, if he's willing to make committment, that means he's willing to take responsiblity and focus on our R. However, marry him too soon is quite risky as I have doubts.!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, but you have to tell him what it take for you ... no more red carpet. I am not saying you will marry him ... I am trying to tell you that the end of this R is M. It is not open ended R. If I am serious about R I would not waste my time or just let GF go.

-rh-

I called him yesterday and asked him out for a talk but he was not available. I am very disappointed that he has no actions to me these weeks. No more calls and messages. I am not sure whether he gives me up as I rejected him once. I sent him an email telling him what I feel and what I want. He replied me the next day with this:

"You are right. I remorse what I did, but also not used to live without you. I need time to think."

I am perplexed and sad. What the hell is he doing? I have no regret I turned him down last week as I said before it's a test. My guess is right. He still hasn't made the decision yet. All the words he told me last week are bull****. I am weary of the game. It tortures me like hell.

Hope I will feel better tomorrow.

Hope you are having a good day. Stay strong and do things for yourself todazy. Focus on you and your future. You cannot control what he does. He needs to realize what life will be like, that may take a while for him. Keep smiling, you're doing all you can. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

YWM ... goback to plan B ... strick plan B. If he contacts you, email your list of ammends and don't even talk or contact him until he does the lists. Divide the list into 2 parts, first list of must do before contact and second list of must do for maintaining R. Meanwhile ... have fun with your life, I know it is hard but go out with groups of people and enjoy HK night life ... there are so much to do.

With BS in the fog, you raise up the bar everytime they fumbble.

-rh-

Thanks redhat and new jersey for your input and encouragement. Though I have good days and bad days, I will stay strong. Yes, I have many things to do. I go to gym, swim and attend the course. Have gatherings with family and friends. I have joined the Caritas for volunteer services. Want to keep busy and try to put him aside. Despite missing him so much, I will take redhat's advice go to plan B again. However, I don't have much hope on him.

Redhat, a personal question to you. It's up to you to answer. I know a bit about your story. If your exW really really sorry what she have done. She dumped OM and sincerely wanted to work hardly on M. Will you give her a chance?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by YWM:
<strong>Redhat, a personal question to you. It's up to you to answer. I know a bit about your story. If your exW really really sorry what she have done. She dumped OM and sincerely wanted to work hardly on M. Will you give her a chance?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nope, I don't, after D-day she has 6 months in plan A, 6 months in plan B, 3 months before (changed of status) Dv is finalized. Dv for me is closing the door and throwing away the key. I gave her a chance once with the same OM that she claimed only EA. I changed a lot & completely erase that event in my life but when there is a hard time (financially that I listen to her) she run to OM again behind my back. I waste enough time for her and the hurt is a mile deep. I refuse to even to open a chance for her to hurt me for the third time.

To work on M it would take many years. She has personal issues that now I realized it. She is not honest even with herself. Her dad cheated on her mom and they didn't work it out correctly, I beleive the impact is there. She has not properly greive the death of her mom. Her dad lives with a married woman, he is an OM.

Basically I have to start fresh plus helping her too ... I rather start fresh with a new mate that has no baggages. I don't want to pick a stone in the mud that it might not be a diamond at all. I want an equal partner that I could give myself 100%.

Before I push for change of status, I had a weird dream, it was very real. Someone is knocking the door and I open it. I see my ExW standing there. She didn't say a word, she has red eyes and sobbing. I didn't say a word, I had no emotion at all for her and I closed the door.

If she dump OM and call me up, I would tell her that I had made my decision and wish her good luck with her life and advice her to seek IC. I would tell her I am sorry I could not be there to help her heal b/c I need to move on with my own life.

-rh-

Hi Redhat,

I am sorry you had suffered a lot in the past. You are a very strong and level-headed person. Your case was more complicated than mine. I don't understand how people can emotionally shut down to their partners. The hurt must be very deep. My BF hurts me badly but I still love him. The love is more intense than before Dday. I don't know why. My friends and sister were surprised how can I stand it for eight months. I have tried to shut down my emotion to him but there's still a spark in my heart. Sometimes, I wish I could have done it and I could be free. It's a contradictory thinking.

Hope you can find your 'diamond' soon.

This is the update and I need direction.

WBF called me on Monday and asked me out for a dinner. I accepted as I thought he had something to tell me. Again, he asked me back to his arms but I shook my head. And then, he kept silence through the whole dinner. I asked him what's about the OW and he said they have broken up with a look of annoyance. That irritated me with his LB. I told him I don't trust him and he didn't show me any sincerity. I don't want him to kneel down and beg me back but I expected him to tell me more what's his feelings and what are we going to do in future. It's his turn to chase me. Nope! He said nothing! He sent me home and we don't contact again.

I have moved out from our flat for a month. Though going through the days with ups and downs, I feel better as times goes by. Frankly, I only have little feelings on him as he withdrew too many love units from my bank. I have put all the bad memories to the drawer and locked it. It's scary if I choose to stay with him, all the horrible memories are recalled. In addition, I have to manage our 'problems' and 'trust' issues but I am afraid to deal with. If he cheats me again, I don't know whether I can fight anymore. I am still single and I have choices. I'm always thinking is it worth saving this torn R? Can we get over it? Can we have a better R in future? A lot of unknown questions in my head.

After NC, I started to date a guy (ex-colleague) that I have known him for years. I don't think it's inappropriate as I'm not married yet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> We go to gym once every week and we are both in same profession. We are now just normal friend but I can't deny that we have chance to have further development. Compared with WBF out of his betrayal, this guy is better. I'm at a crossroads. I don't want to make a mess of R and I don't want to create another 'triangle'. If I want to start a new R, I will tell my BF clearly we're over. If I eventually choose my BF, I won't give myself any chance to develop R with this guy. I pray for a clear mind to choose the right path and don't make any mistake.

It sounds like I prefer starting a new R. In fact, I am not sure. Do I like this guy? H'm, I think I do. Do I love my BF? Yes, I love but the love is not as strong as before especially with his attitude. We may have better R but the baggage is so big. What do I do?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

YWM--from your signature line, I note your age and that you have been w/ your WBF since your were 18. All that time, and why have you not married before now? I'm just curious as to why. I can't imagine being in an exclusive relationship for that long without marriage.

And while yes, it is possible for people to meet at a young age and pair up for life (I was married at 19 myself), it's just not the norm. Sorry, I don't mean to be nosy, but I couldn't resist asking.

YWM,
You are in plan B ... no dating yet or even getting the appearance so. You are in the rebound situation and hope this guy know what he is getting into. If I were you I would at least wait 'till a few months. Keep NC with your WBF.

This new guy will wait for you if he is serious. You have to let him know your situation and keep R as "male" freind rather "boy" freind. You have to keep distance from now to make sure you are completly over your WBF.

-RH-

I haven't touched the computer for days. Thanks for the reply from JobieMom and Redhat.

JobieMom, if you see my previous posts in Plan A/Plan B, you will know the reason why I don't get married. This is quite common here. The rate of people getting married is low but the rate of divorce is so high. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> My two cousins and two friends prefer having this lifestyle. However, I have proved that it doesn't work. Things happened and I'm now not afraid of M anymore.

I broke Plan B and we had a short talk on Sunday night. Since he didn't talk much on last Monday, I didn't know his situation. He said they were separated on Saturday. I was so tired of his bull****! I have heard this thousands times. None is real. How could he go back to his word again and again. Has he no shame? He said this time he is serious. I asked him the reason why he broke up with the OW and wants me back. He only told me some superficial reasons that I couldn't accept. I was quite disappointed and numbed by his excuses. He is still fog bound. I told him again my conditions for coming back-NC to OW forever, completely honest to me, respects me and truly willing to work things together but I don't think he can follow. He asked me to wait and he needs time to prove it. I said OK but I am running out of patience. So my thought is go back to plan B for two months and see what comes out. Regarding the new guy, certainly I will hold my feelings to him till everything is over.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by YWM:
<strong>This is quite common here. The rate of people getting married is low but the rate of divorce is so high. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> My two cousins and two friends prefer having this lifestyle.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WOW !!!. Can you introduce me to those lady in the fog ? ... I need a lady who fillin my ENs but free of responsibility to them so I still could be 100% to my 2 D ... just kidding. I am happy this way for now, "hakuna matata" said pumba (Lion King).

Keep your plan B and don't even contact him or be contacted.

-rh-

<small>[ August 19, 2003, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: redhat ]</small>

rh, there are many reasons why the divorce rate is so high in here. People (esp young generation) have little confidence in M. They don't want to bear responsibilty because they don't think their R will last long. The R between people are so fragile. I have seen a TV program concerning about the low birth rate in HK. The couple was asked why they don't want to have children. They said the future is hard to tell, they are not sure they will stay together even after two years. It's so sad!

<small>[ August 19, 2003, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: YWM ]</small>

It is all about hope ... there is no hope there goes humanity !. Just look at the crime rate in Oakland (across SF), when asked they said they don't have hope ... why bother. I know you will find hope and drive to happiness out from this mess. Hang in there.

-rh-