Please read my other posts for my back-story if needed.

I have decided to move into Plan B with my wife, I simply am exhausted and must protect what love I still have. W was angry and frustrated but now seems to think that this is a good idea. She found an apartment and should be moving this weekend.

The trick is that the OM is in another country and she cannot see him even if she wanted too. She claims that if her and I have no contact while separated, she doesn't see how she could ever love me again. She wants to hang out, go on dates etc. to "try and gain romance back in our relationship" to put it in her words.

We have been to 3 counselors, all of them stricly say that she must give up all contact with OM in order to even try at working our our marriage. I have also told her this on countless occasions. She says she understands this, but needs to move out and have time to think until she may be willing to make up her mind. But she claims that if we are not hanging out and having fun together, then why would she want to be with me.

Is this just fog talk? How do I answer statemenst like this? I know setting up a idea of what the future could be is what Plan A was for and I feel comfortable with the mood that I set during Plan A, but I dont know how to talk to her about this. Is she just looking for a reason/justification to get a divorce when she moves out? Should I cut off all contact or not?

Help please! Its coming up soon!

If she is contacting OM, How can you hang out with her? Is the question. You are not into cheating and you don't want to be the OM.

She can choose her man. OM or you, but really she has to chose to work on the marriage before you can "hang out and work on your relationship", she has NOT made that choice.

You might remind her that you do agree that you would like to hang out and try and work on the relationship, but she won't be doing that if OM is in the relationship.

Just fog. She knows and she has been told by counselors that contact with OM must cease. It is her choice.

Hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by fromAbove:
<strong>.... She wants to hang out, go on dates etc. to "try and gain romance back in our relationship" to put it in her words.

.... But she claims that if we are not hanging out and having fun together, then why would she want to be with me.

Is this just fog talk? How do I answer statemenst like this?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You definitly miss plan A big time !!!. First do you want your W and do you want a better M with her ?. If not then go Dv straight it save you money and heartache otherwise don't even think about plan B at all.

You have failed to make it safe for her to come back. The problem of your M you have not fix it. She wants to have fun ... we all should ! but apperantly you fail to show that you could change. It is not about OM it is about you !.

I would tell her not to move out and let her be the "event manager" ... plan to hang out & go out & have fun !. Hopefully much more than when you try to court her. Tell her that the $$ for the apartment is better spend for fun.

As you don't want her to contact OM ... she don't want to commit to the same M that prone to A again.

-rh-

Thank you for the feedback,

redhat -

This is precisley what I was talking about when I said.... " know setting up a idea of what the future could be is what Plan A was for and I feel comfortable with the mood that I set during Plan A, but I dont know how to talk to her about this"

I did not miss plan A, she did! Unfortnatley that is why plan B has to be done. Of course I want a wife and better marriage, I have spent the last 6 months proving that though words and actions to her. I did make our M a safe place for her, but she chose to stay in contact with OM regardless of my and several counselors pleas for her to stop.

I know that these are just words, but you can only express so much on these posts. I am 100% confident in the Plan A I set forth, I could not have done anything more. Now that it has come to B however, how can I answer questions such as these?

I know that no contact is best to preserve what love is left, but I think she just wants to be a cake eater.

I support your choice to go to Plan B because of the following comment:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"When your spouse is trying to decide between you and the lover, it's time for Plan B."
...Willard F. Harley Jr. PhD.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Stay the course with Plan B and don't resume contact with her until she agrees to the 2 deal breakers:

1. By writting a letter to the OM telling him NEVER to contact her again. This should be done in your presence.

2. To agree to a marital recovery plan with a pro-marriage professional like Steve Harley or Penny Tupy (cerri, founder of www.saveyourmarriagecentral.com ) as well as strict observance of the four rules for a succesful marriage (see my link below).

If you take her back without her agreeing and complying to those 2 deal breakers you will be setting yourself up to a false recovery in which she will resume her cake eating, and put your remaining love for her in danger of ending and make you opt for divorce.

fromAbove,

If this (fun time in M) was the situation leading to A, you have to show her that is possible. I would call her bluff first. I would ask her not to move out and negotiate on "hanging out & go on dates & having fun". It is your choice but I would not go to plan B. However if it is not ... I would throw the responsibilty on her court back, reverse babbled, "It is your choice to keep contact with OM and it is your choice not to be with me ... as my plan B states I am still willing to work on M if and only if you drop the contact." Hang up.

-rh-

FA,

With all due respect I disagree with RH. If you have done six months of Plan A, then it is time to move to plan B. You can ask people like the Harley's or Cerri who does coaching in the Harley approach, the most common mistake is NOT going to Plan B soon enough.

It seems to me you understand the plans well, the concepts well, and have done what you can do. It is plan B for you and I think you are right.

God Bless,

JL

<small>[ July 30, 2003, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>

FA your WW is very addicted to her OM and Plan A has NOT been succesful in negotiating an end to the A(affair), and for that reason you are correct in deciding to implement Plan B. Until she complies with the 2 deal breakers I wrotte about in my previous post, your marriage is still on the path to divorce.

Thanks for the support all, it is good to hear confirmation from others who have been there and know what they are talking about.

Just out of curiosity, in your opinion(s) does the fact that the OM is in another country and my W cannot be with him change any aspects of Plan B?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Just out of curiosity, in your opinion(s) does the fact that the OM is in another country and my W cannot be with him change any aspects of Plan B?"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not one bit. The OM could be Santa Claus and the rules would still apply.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She claims that if her and I have no contact while separated, she doesn't see how she could ever love me again. She wants to hang out, go on dates etc. to "try and gain romance back in our relationship" to put it in her words. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you are in Plan B; then, hanging out (or any contact at all) should not happen. The closer you stick to no contact, the sooner it will work, and the higher your chances of success. No contact is irrespective of the circumstances.

<small>[ July 30, 2003, 03:14 PM: Message edited by: *Takola* ]</small>

fromAbove

I am in nearly the same situation as you it seems. I hang out with my wife because I am trying to show her that I am confident in myself, that I care for her and that I can change.

At the same time I will not do anything to hasten the end of my marriage, she will have to take of those steps.

So, if hanging out and having fun give me opportunities to show my wife that I am capable of change and of meeting her needs, then I am going to seize that opportunity every chance I can.