I'm scared as to what will happen now but I dropped off my Plan B letters at the post office this morning. H and OW should get them tomorrow.

I didn't plan A for long but since my H and I don't see each other much, it was hard. I did meet with him in June to talk about my faults in the marriage. I gave him a list of some and asked for his forgiveness. I told him I was willing to work on our marriage if wanted to. He had too many other things on his mind and was still with OW at the time. He replied to me with an email few days later and just said that he had heard everything I had said but just wished me luck in the future. The few times I met with him, I always made sure I looked good and was always very polite.

I'm scared but I know I will get support here for whatever I will go thru now. I'll keep updating here as things "happen" (if anything).

Please keep me in your prayers as well.

H98

Dear Hopeful,

I have only now read some of your previous posts, and some of the responses you have received.

As I understand the situation, your husband is living with his mother, and is involved with another woman. You have sat down with your husband one time in June, expressed your ideas of how you could do better, and he replied to your ideas.

You are upset because your husband is not calling you, and he engaged in a fight to defend another woman's privacy. You feel there is nothing more for you to do, as you have been praying, and your husband has not responded as you would wish him to call you, and accept your open arms.

I have not seen you describe the areas of the marriage that you thought were working. Your needs, his needs. Like in the 10 areas in the MB Articles, of which they suggest doing well in a few areas.

I am not convinced by what I see from your story, that this is the time for Plan B. Cetainly you have sent your letter, and I should try to be supportive to that concept. However, Plan B can be reversed and re-started. See 180 Degree Divorce Busting. So let us pray that you will be united with your husband within one week of his receiving his Plan B Letter.

Dear Jesus, I pray that you will unite Hopefull and her husband, quickly, and that the Plan B letter will have a positive impact on Hopefull's husband. In Jesus Name, I Pray, A Men.

Now in preparation for further work on your marriage, whether you are back together with your husband or not.

I suggest that one area lacking in your marriage is in your husbands feeling of comfort in discussing problems with you. You seem to place the blame now entirely with your husband, as you have asked for forgiveness, and agreed to repent.

My wife is not a good listener, and I refuse to discuss religion with my wife, because she remembers the last month of Church sermons, and serves those back to me, rather than sharing her own ideas, or trying to understand the religious questions that are puzzling to me at the time.

However, you have not asked to sit down with your husband again, for lunch or dinner, or other setting for a casual conversation. You have given no indication that the Other Woman would interfere with your sitting down with your husband again. You seem to feel that you have done everything you can think of to do, so you are instituting Plan B.

You keep getting information about your husband from other people, yet you and your husband are not sitting down to discuss issues, problems and opportunities.

It seems clear that your husband has problems, and does talk to others about his problems, but not to you.

I suggest, whether your husband comes back tonight, or is not back in a month, that you can undertake the goal now, of becoming a better listener.

The skills of listening and asking pertinent questions are taught in many settings. The fact that you did all the talking, and asked no relevant questions, and received no relevant answers from your husband during your meeting, indicates that you did not ask any apporopriate questions. You are focused on your idea of restoring the marriage.

I suggest you focus on becoming a better listener, and let the marriage improve by your improving your skills as a prober and listener. I believe your husband feels he has problems, and he feels the need to speak about his problems in an accepting, non-juddgemental atmosphere, that will allow him to talk aloud his ideas, and think through his beliefs, and how religion and God relate to his life. You seem to have been taught that certain religious beliefs are true, others are wrong.

You need to be able to shift from the role of a concerned wife, knowing what is true for your husband's soul, to being a companion for your husband in his search for the religious beliefs that are, and will become self-evident to him.

There are many paths for you to learn the skills of active listening. One is Scientology Auditing. There are 4 spiral books of counseling questions, ($150.00 each) Called something like EVALUATION GRADE CHARTS LEVELS 0-4. For a few hundred dollars, and up, there are courses in how to use the Evaluation Grade Charts. Some Scientology missions will allow you to look at Grade Charts in their book store, or in the Qual Library, without charge, or you can buy some Qual Time at $60.00 for a day. I discusssed Scientology with Stephan in the MB Negotiating Forum.

You can take courses in College on counseling. They will give you practicums. You can enter counseling as a patient, and ask to be taught the skills for being a better listenter for your husband. I took a Christian Counseling Course at a Baptist Church, and that would be of some samll assistance for you, but I don't recommend that for you, as it is rather dogmatic. You need to read some Unitarian Philosphy, which respects the inner strength of each individual to be able to discern the correct religious beliefes of each individual, and our challenge, as friends and family, is to assist others to find the truths that are real to themselves.

I have been preaching listening to you. If you read some of my other posts, you will see that I ask some MB posts a number of questions, to help them think through their problems. You can develop your own list of questions for use the next time you can arrange to sit down with your husband.

Many Christians feel that it is their job to tell other people how they themselves think religion should be practiced, and what religious beliefs should be held by others. That works for many, because many Cristian princples are correct for many people. It appears that you need to broaden your horizon to save your marriage.

I wish I had a wife like I have asked you to become.

Best wishes,

Quipper
Married 28 years and still struggling

<small>[ August 03, 2003, 03:55 AM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>

Hi Quipper,

Just want to let you know that I have not been ignoring your reply. I read it the day you posted it and I have just been thinking about it all.

Thank you for taking the time to read my previous posts. You understand the situation correctly.

I really don't know what areas of our marriage were working. I THOUGHT everything was working fine, but apparently not.

I wasn't too convinced that this was time for Plan B either but I was losing the love I have for him and I needed to protect that. I NEED to protect that 'cause I DO want this marriage to work.

Thank you for praying that my H and I will be united within one week of receiving his letter. That week hasn't gone by yet but I pray very hard for that as well. I cried as I read your prayer. Thank you!

I think you are very right in saying that my H was lacking the feeling of comofort in discussing problems with me. I see and understand that so clearly now. I don't put the blame entirely on him 'cause I do recognize and realize that I had a part in all this. I didn't know then but I know now.

You're right in saying that I have not asked my H to sit down for lunch or dinner just to have a casual conversation. I don't think the OW would interfere with this but I'm not sure he would agree to that anymore. Besides, I'm still in Plan B and have not contact whatsoever. Yes, I do feel that I have done everything I can think of to do and he seems to just be taking advantage of me now. He's not paying the bill he said he would pay and now I'm the one being screwed. He doesn't pay rent, since he lives with his mom, therefore only pays his car and insurance. Probably spends the rest of his money on OW.

Yes, my H does talk to others about his problems but they are his problems with OW. Not OUR problems. I don't want to talk to him about those.

The day I asked to meet with him was to just let him know what was in my heart. I didn't plan it to be an asking and answering conversation. I just wanted to talk and have him listen.

I will focus on becoming a better listener. Thank you for pointing that out to me. And you are also right in saying that I need to be able to shift from the role of a concerned wife, to being a companion for my H in his search for the religious beliefs tha are, and will become self-evident to him.

How can I broaden my horizon to save my marriage?

H98

Dear Hopeful,

In what other ways did you feel that your husband was taking advantage from you since your separation?

Can you afford the rent? Is is your decision to say where you are going to live? Can you move to a less expensive living quarters? Would that move adversly affect your chances of getting back together with your husband?

There are exercises that you can do, outloud, that will help you become a better listener.

In Scientology, they have a Communications course, where you work on listening skills, and speaking skills, with a student partner. The course is some $200.00. The Scietology Tone scale is helpful, to adjust your own communicatin style, to be in tune with any grief, fear, resentment, anger, antagonism, doubt or enthusiasm of your companion.

Thank you for sharing that you cried with my prayer, but I have recently taken a course in praying from the Religious Science Center. There is a web site, which shows the locations around the country. The course I took is available across the country, and it helps to define a positive goal for the individual, and make the scope of the prayer as focused, yet broad enough to encompass better answers than we have dreamed of. Before I started the course, I said, "You are telling me that it is going to take me 13 weeks, one night a week, to learn what you have to teach me about prayer?" The instructor replied, "Yes." and I did learn more every week. They are based on the writings and teachings of Earnest Holmes. The course is basically multi-sectarian, and builds on the common denominators of all religions.

Another struggling separated woman posted under Negotiations is Mybush6, 29380, 8-6-03

Best Wishes,

Quipper
Married 28 years and still struggling

Hello,

In what other ways did you feel that your husband was taking advantage from you since your separation?

It was just in the money.

Can you afford the rent?

Yes, I think I can. BUT if I have to start paying tha bill my H is neglecting to pay, I'd BARELY be making it. I don't want to have to work just to have a place to sleep at. I want to enjoy life as well.

Is it your decision to say where you are going to live?

Yes, I do believe it is my decision to say where I am going to live. I'm old enough, aren't I?

Can you move to a less expensive living quarters?

It's very hard to find a less expensive place that is not in a junky area. I can probably find a cheaper one but will probably be in a very poor neighborhood. Where kids practically live out on the streets and men are seen everywhere drinking and scoping out any woman that passes by. I don't want that kind of neighborhood. (especially if I'm going to be living by myself)

Would that move adversly affect your chances of getting back together with your husband?

No, I don't think it would. I think there might be a possibility that he will want to come back once he sees I'm moving on (especially not at my parents).

I don't know. I'm just so confused. I know God will lead me the right direction. I'm just learning to trust him.

Today when I came home from work my mother told me that a lady from her church had seen my H at a restaurant with OW and her daughter last week. She was so excited to see him (had been a while) but was VERY shocked to see him with someone else. (she didn't know we were separated) She said that he just got very PALE and did not say a word. He just said hello and that was it. Well, at least he DOES know that what he's doing is wrong. This was a woman that he's always respected. But of course, when he bumped into one of MY co-workers he started telling him everything. That he had left me and was now with this OW and introduced her to him and co-worker even noticed that daughter called him dad. (aarrggh) I just don't know how much longer I can take this. I'm in Plan B and I'm not supposed to have any contact with him (which I don't) but I still feel I do since I still hear about him and what he's up to. I told my mother today that I did not want to hear anything about him anymore. I hope she gets it. It's like she rejoices to give me news about my H and OW. It makes me ANGRY and so very hurt. Well, I guess this was pretty much an update. Thanks for reading. Any responses are appreciated.

H98

Dear Hopeful,

It is rewarding to me that you found some of my questions sufficietly thought provoking as to warrant the time to think out an answer.

I am more clear now on your budget situation, but I still feel a little uncertain as to which bills you feel he should help with now. If all the bills are coming to the marital home, where you live, how will he know to pay which bills?

I can understand your feeling that being married, living in a rented apartment in a reasonable section of town, carries a duty to continue to provide support for the lifestyle. How can that be fit into Plan B? 180 Degree Divorce Busters?

Did you try to look at Religious Science? Knowing how to pray for a wide range of beliefs fo people is broadening, yet it seeks to deepen your religious understanding.

Prayers and best wishes,

Quipper,
Married 28 years and still struggling

Hi Quipper,

Thanks for your replies.

We had split the amount of our bills evenly. He was going to pay half of what we owe and I was going to pay the other half. He even volunteered to pay them ALL! (yeah right) Which of course, I said no to. I was paying the cell phones bill (both phones) while he was paying the car insurance (both cars). Then he got himself a new car and his own insurance, and I had to get my own as well. So, I have now forwarded the cell phone bill to him. He is not paying his half of the bills now. We owe a total of 12K and now it looks like I will have to pay it all myself. He's not doing anything about it. It's so frustrating. The bill he is supposed to be paying actually arrives at his mom's (which is where he's living). That's why I don't know if he behind on it or not, until they call me to tell me.

I can understand your feeling that being married, living in a rented apartment in a reasonable section of town, carries a duty to continue to provide support for the lifestyle. How can that be fit into Plan B? 180 Degree Divorce Busters?

Sorry, but I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here. I am a bit slow tonight. Can you please explain in detail? Thanks.

No, I have not looked at Religious Science yet. That's just very different for me. I've been a Christian all my life. I don't have a problem with prayers. I believe it is just like talking to a good friend (and that's really what it is). I don't think I need the "correct" words. Just what's in my heart. I will check it out though. Thanks.

Ok, I have a question. I am now in Plan B. I went to my MIL's today and get pretty depressed seeing that she has taken down some pictures of H and I from her living room (perhaps my H did it, since he sleeps there) but it hurt to think that MIL is giving up on us. Should I be Plan B'ing her as well? I know this should be no contact with my H but should I have no contact with ANYTHING pertaining to H? I'm confused and hurt today. Your advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

H98

Dear Hopeful,

I have reviewed some of your posts, and I will recap, so I can try to be relevant. If I have any circumstances incorrect, please forgive me and make the corrections.

You separated from your husband 6 months ago, and you have been in Plan A, and you are now a week into Plan B. You have no children, but have a rental in a decent part of town. Your husband has another woman who has a daughter of some 6 to 8 years old, who calls your husband dad.

You have not taken legal action, and desire to get your husband back. There are some bills that your husband agreed to pay, that come to your MIL's house. You are experiencing frustration because your husband is not paying the bills he agreed to pay.

You are continuing to live in the marital abode, hoping your husband will return, and resume the marriage. Your husband theoretically lives at his mother's house.

You can often get ideas from lawyers for cheap dollars. Many bar associations have lawyer referral services, and they will give you the names of 3 lawyers, and you can make an appointment, sometimes $20.00 for 20 Minutes. You can describe your situation, and ask for their ideas and prices. You can go to a law library, between visits to lawyers, and look up your rights, so as you go to each lawyer, you will become more aware of what the law can, and cannot do. You could first ask for a lawyer to defend a criminal adultery charge, you can get 3 more for a suit for alienation of affection, 3 more for alimony, 3 more for support, 3 more for divorce.

You mention that separation is as expensive as divorce, and neither are what you desire. You may have a right to alimony, or support, independent of separation or divorce. You may have a civil action for alientation of affection, against the other woman. You may wish to collect evidence of adultery, for use for support, and alienation of affection. A private detective photographs your husband seeing the other woman. You may also bring criminal charges in some jurisdicitons for adultery against the other woman.

I have a copy of the book WINNING THROUGH INTIMIDATION, and came across it today, and almost set it aside to read again. You could have a lawyer decribe your legal powers to you, and for a few hundred dollars, a lawyer would probably agree to meet with your husband and give him a dutch uncle talk.

It seems a little difficult for you to talk to your mil. You can check your credit report on line, and it may have your husband's information there also. Many times banks will give information about past due bills to spouses, although in ordinary circimstances they may have refused in the past.

You can easily get a protective order against your husband coming around the house or contacting you, but that is not what you want. There may be some ideas the clerks will have in the domestic relations courts in your area, that I have not thought of.

One executive who rose through the ranks, revealed how he had gotten promoted so quickly. Once he got a position, he learned the job of his immediate supervisor. Once he felt sufficiently connected and competent, he sent out his boss's resume's to get his boss another job. Once his boss was hired for another job, the riser filled his supervisor's job. Repeat.

Well is your husband's OW on Match.com? Do you know of any othe eligable bachelors for her? Or start sending out your husband's resume's to locations away from OW. Perhaps up front, or perhaps with some conniving, but conniving can destroy what trust there is in a marriage. What friends of the OW do you know? I saw part of a reality show, where a guy got voted off, and I have hear some guys say, yeah I did my best to fool everyone. This guy said, I tried to play the game, and be trustworhty. I lasted for a while, but I can live with myself, and talk to anyone who was part of the reality show again.

A divorce action that you initiate, can be stopped by you at any time, if you have your lawyer work it that way for you. You may be able to file a suit for alimony by yourself, pro se.

I see you post to other threads, but I don't see you offer to help others very much. I try to help myself by helping others. That may not work for you, but just a thought.

Moment of silence for me to be more productive in being the family bill payer and taxman.

Blessings,

Quipper,
Married 28 years and still struggling.

<small>[ August 14, 2003, 07:58 PM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>

Hi Quipper,

You have no children, but have a rental in a decent part of town.

I actually live with my parents and would like to get a rental in a decent part of town.

Your husband has another woman who has a daughter of some 6 to 8 years old, who calls your husband dad.

Correct. She is actually 4 or 5 years old.

There are some bills that your husband agreed to pay, that come to your MIL's house.

It's only 1.

You mention that separation is as expensive as divorce, and neither are what you desire.

Nope, I don't want either one.

I appreciate your reply on this but all this Lawyer, alimony, civil action stuff just does not sound good to me right now. I'm not out to get even with my husband, I just want him back.

You can easily get a protective order against your husband coming around the house or contacting you, but that is not what you want.

No, that is not what I want but I don't have to worry about that 'cause he never comes by.

Well is your husband's OW on Match.com?

I'm sorry, but this is just too WEIRD for me. I'm not about to play CUPID for this OW.

What friends of the OW do you know?

I don't know anyone. She's my H's co-worker.

A divorce action that you initiate, can be stopped by you at any time, if you have your lawyer work it that way for you.

I understand that, but that's not what I want.

I see you post to other threads, but I don't see you offer to help others very much.

I really don't know what help to offer others, when I'm in the same situation.

Well, this Plan B is going ok. I'm doing much better not knowing about him and what he's up to. I just don't know for how long I'll be able to do it for. Thanks for your responses.

H98

Hi, I am brand new to the marriage builders site. I have just moved into Plan B but have not sent a Plan B letter to my husband yet. Steve Harley said I should ask some current members for some sample Plan B letters to help give me an idea of what they should consist of.

Would you be interested in emailing me a copy of your Plan B letter as a sample and/or telling me how I can convey this to all other members out there.

I would like to complete my Plan B letter by Saturday, August 23rd. I appreciate any help you can give me. If my email address doesn't show up here, it is:

Hi, I am brand new to the marriage builders site. I have just moved into Plan B but have not sent a Plan B letter to my husband yet. Steve Harley said I should ask some current members for some sample Plan B letters to help give me an idea of what they should consist of.
Would you be interested in emailing me a copy of your Plan B letter as a sample and/or telling me how I can convey this to all other members out there. I would like to complete my Plan B letter by Saturday, August 23rd. I appreciate any help you can give me. If my email address doesn't show up here, it is: paulschiebel@netzero.net.
Thank you. PandJwillsurvive

P&J,
Start a new post. Click on "New Topic" towards the top of the page.

Put in a brief history of what happened.
Also, you may want to remove the email address from this post. Click on the little penci/paper icon at the top of your message to edit it.