I've posted earlier, but I think I just went back two steps. My WW left a little over 3 weeks ago to live with the OM. I didn't call her for almost 2 weeks and she ended up calling me. Since then I've talked to her about every other day, either she called here to talk to the kids or just checking in. Well, she got in a little argument with my oldest daughter on the phone today. My daughter handed me the phone and said she didn't want to talk to her mom anymore, so I got back on the phone. My WW was upset with our daughter because she said she felt like our daughter thought she had abandoned her. Not thinking, I said she had. Spouse got very angry and hung up on me. I felt stupid afterwards. I felt I had made some good points during the last week and to throw it all away in a stupid fit of revenge. How do I go about undoing what I just did? Am I wrong in saying she abandoned us? After all, she is the one that left. She didn't have to go, but she made that choice. I guess now I'm venting. Its hard seeing my wife leave after 16 years of marriage. I've spent my entire grown up life with her, and she has thrown it all away for an affair. Well, I guess I'll pay for this in the long run. Maybe I've messed things up for good. I'll let her make the next move...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lost-without-her:
<strong>.... Not thinking, I said she had. Spouse got very angry and hung up on me. I felt stupid afterwards. I felt I had made some good points during the last week and to throw it all away in a stupid fit of revenge. How do I go about undoing what I just did? Am I wrong in saying she abandoned us? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You just stated the obvious ... it is not really an LB. She hung up on you since she was hurt by the truth. Let her get a dose of reality. As long as you are not in angry outburst saying it, no disrespectful judgement ... you are fine. Next time you should refuse to be the middle man, let your D and your WW know that you don't want to be in the middle.

-rh-

always remember to forgive, and forget.
Try to always bite your tongue. The tongue is where you will get your most trouble from.
Become Mr. Humble!!!
Just my opinion, but yes you were wrong!!
ASk yourself, what was the pay off? What did you have to gain? What do you have to loose?
Remain as positive as you can manage to muster, and then some. Only positive statements!!!

<small>[ August 04, 2003, 05:26 AM: Message edited by: Stephan ]</small>

Maybe a little wrong but I wouldn't worry about it. Your wife brought the subject up and you awnsered her question honestly.

Try and let your wife call you more than you call her. Try not to chase her to much but don't run away either. Keep up with Plan A. Your wife is obviously calling and talking to you because she's confussed.

The road is long and bumpy. Do the best you can and hang tough.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stephan:
<strong>always remember to forgive, and forget.
Try to always bite your tongue. The tongue is where you will get your most trouble from.
Become Mr. Humble!!!
Just my opinion, but yes you were wrong!!
ASk yourself, what was the pay off? What did you have to gain? What do you have to loose?
Remain as positive as you can manage to muster, and then some. Only positive statements!!!</strong>
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I totally disagree......SHE DID ABANDON THEM PERIOD. What difference would it have made if they said nothing??..........I will tell ya.......NOTHING.

first of all, trying to plan A with a WW living in the home of the OM is next to impossible so just start out here by cutting yourself some slack. i mean really, give yourselfa brake!

second, if telling the truth is a love buster then so be it. no where in plan A does it state that you must be deaf, dumb & blind. further, honest communication is never a love buster. not communicating honestly is the love buster!

third, it sounds to me as if you should be in plan B rather then plan A. not because you have chosen to be there but because your wife has put you there. as things are right now, you're enabling her to behave inappropriatly with no penalty to her. plan A is intended to brake up the affair not enable it.

fourth, if what you're doing isn't working you should do something else. anything else! acting like her cr@p is ice cream is not called for. you can plan A if you choose and still retain a sense of dignity and self worth...while not pandering to her obvious faults. telling her that she's acting the role she has chosen for herself is not love busting.

coach

I went back and read more on Plan A and what it is supposed to do. I think I misinterpreted what I was supposed to be doing in plan A. I have been trying to be nice and accomodating to my wife hoping she would see the nice guy I've always been. I've written letters to her on the changes I've been going through but have never really been honest about some of the things I know, like how my children feel, how I feel, how seeing her kills me. I just wanted to change myself and hope she'd see these things. I'm not good at confrontation or communication and I guess thats part of the reason I'm here today. I've been feeling better about myself though and am trying to figure out what the best things to do right now. I'm still not sure where to go from here. This week was good up until 2 days ago. My oldest daughter got in a fender bender and I had to deal with this on my own. I usually had my wife to stand behind me but not having that support system, made things twice as hard. I've felt crappy since then. I guess I'm rambling, but just need to get things out and I really don't have a lot of friends to talk to. I go to couceling on Thursdays, but it seems so far away....

Plan A's purpose is to negotiate an end to the A(affair) by addressing the causes of the A without resorting to love busters (angry outbursts, selfish demands, disrespectful judgements, dishonesty, independent behavior, and annoying habits) and a willingness by the BS to meet unfulfilled EN(emotional needs) AFTER the A ends. Plan A also requires the BS to expose the truth about the A to the OP(other person) spouse and to close friends and family. Have you done all of the above?

I'm not sure if I've accomplished everything in plan A. I have exposed the affair to OM's wife, all my friends, and my family along with WW's mother. My children know and they are angry with their mother. I haven't talked to WW very much but have written many letters. Its hard to talk when she isn't around and doesn't want to talk about the affair. I've told her through letters that I want to have her back in my life and I have made changes. She has never said anything about any of this yet. I've seen her probably 10 times in the last month. I really don't know how she feels and I don't want to ask her because I know I'll end up falling apart in front of her and I don't want to do that right now... How do you confront your spouse about the affair without coming on to strong or falling apart? I don't think I can do that right at this time. I get upset when I see her, much less trying to talk to her about all this. Should I go into plan B to help me feel better? I'm not sure what to do at this point....

LWH,
to control the situation you must control yourself. part of your insecurity is that you don't know what to do. you know what the problem is but you can't figure out how to solve it and so you flounder in a sea of anxiety.

may i respectfully suggest that when in a position that doesn't seem to lend itself to posative and definitive action, that the best thing to do is nothing! sit back, observe, learn more about the situation and then plan some action to cause the effect that you wish to take place at some later date.

in your case, i would stop writing her letters...avoid seeing her and begin worrying about myself. get healthy, go to a gym, read books about the issue that you're dealing with, go to movies...just stay busy and seperate yourself a bit from the problem.

in doing so you will gain perspective and given time, begin seeing things from a different view point. give yourself time...be good to yourself because no one else will.

coach

Was doing more research on affairs. Found this other site that had some good info. It put a little more perspective on the OP that I haven't been able to do since all this happened. Here is a quote from this site talking about the OP:

It may be that obsessing on any particular person gives them far more importance than they deserve. While we have been quick to condemn and criticize the third party, we've also tended to have an exaggerated image of them as a femme fatale or a Don Juan. But if any number of people could have been the third party, then they're not necessarily "special" or superior to the spouse; there're simply different—and the primary difference is just that they have the role of lover instead of the role of husband or wife. In most instances, the overall circumstances of the situation were much more important than the particular person involved.

Knowing this, I feel I can feel better about myself. The OP is not better than me, he is just a fantasy for my WW. Hopefully, when she realizes this, it won't be too late for us to reconcile...

Just an update on the situation now. I came home yesterday to find the W there. She was throwing the football with our D. I joined in for a few minutes. My D went inside for a little while so I took the opportunity to talk to the W about how she felt. I asked if she ever thought about us getting back together. There was a hesitant shake of the head, expressing no. She looked very hurt when she did it. Before she left I told her I didn't want her to come to visit the kids while I was home. I told her it hurts too much to see her knowing she is with another man. I said she could see the kids anytime she wanted but not here while I was home. She was kinda angry and said she couldn't see them "anytime" if I wouldn't let her come here. I again said, she could see them if she met them somewhere else or they could go over to her place. She looked a little hurt and almost started to cry. I know she misses her kids and now she is beginning to feel lonely without them. I'm hoping some of this will eventually help her realize what she is doing isn't going to always go the way she planned. I don't think the OP is going to support her as much as she planned either. He has a bad history and I don't think he'll stick around for very long. I'm not sure of these things, but it makes me feel better to think of this in this light. But, I know I have to move on with my life, with or without her... Last week was lousy, but I plan on having a better week this coming week...

Ok now this is going to seem hard to take but I have to say it.

Stop talking to your wife about your marriage and how you feel and asking how she feels about everything each time you see her. Stop sending her letter after letter. Start being a man and stand firm with some confidence and pride. (cry after she leaves like most men do LOL, write the letters but don't send them)

If every time you communicate with your wife becomes stressfull for her she's never going to open up. Your wife doesn't want to open up to you because when she does talk to you she see's how much it hurts you. And it hurts her.

Don't go into Plan B. Stay in Plan A and do it right. Modify your plan A a little by not reaching out to your wife. Let her call you more than you call her. If you stop chasing her with questions and letters about the marriage and the future she will begin to think that your moving forward and becomming stronger.

Just try it for a couple of weeks.

If your still having problems holding in your emotions when with your wife think of this happening as motivation for you.

Your wife talks to you and leaves depressed, angry, feeling guilty what ever. She goes back to the OM and he comforts her, tells her everythings ok here with me.

You have to flip that around with your Plan A. She needs to feel safe, comfortable and secure around you.

Good luck

Thanks GoodGuy, I'll try this for awhile. I know I was starting to do that earlier and she did call me. I guess that it made me think it would be ok to start talking about "us" again. I guess not. I'll let her call for now and try not to bring up too much stuff. Thanks again....

Good for you.

But don't bring up any of the stuff of a while. I'd say a month. I'm serious.

This is as much for you as her. You need a break from all the emotional conversations as much as your wife does.

Plan A as though your dating a new woman (your wife). There is no past so don't talk about it. And since you just met there is no need to talk about the future.

Vent it in your letters then go back after a week or so and read your letters. When you read those old letters you'll be amazed at your own progress and likely amazed at what you actualy wrote.

Part of the break is to show yourself that your life will go forward without the immediate awnsers you think you need right now or in the heat of your converstaions.

You can do it.

I did some thinking about the issue regarding your children. Now I don't have kids so think about what I'm about to say. Maybe even post a new question and get others input.

I think it's a mistake at this stage (as your still in Plan A and don't have a separation agreement yet) to tell you WW that if she wants to see the kids she must meet them off site so to speak or at her house because it hurts you to much.

And heres why.

1) your reason is because you hurt. your childrens needs have to come first.

2) what would your children think if your wife says I can't come and play with you because your dad said I can't come over? Now who gets punished by your decisison? Now your the bad guy.

3) your wife tells the kids "but you can come over to my house" (and guess what meet the OM maybe) - Now the kids are forced into a potentialy difficult enviroment not to mention the OM may now have a chance to be Mr. nice guy at least in front of you wife.

4)If this marriage doesn't work out and child custody becomes an issue do you really want to here your wife's say in court "He wouldn't even let me play with my children in the kids own yard" or if she's on her own with the children and you just want to paly with them at your wifes house "you wouldn't let me play with the kids at our old house why should I let you play with them now at my house?"

I think as long as the OM isn't comming to your house then there is no reason why your wife can't play with the kids at home. You just need to find something else to do when she's there if it's to difficult to see her.

Now I'm not saying allow your wife to sit in the family room and play house with the kids all day but playing out side or doing some homework what's the big deal.

Again JMHO

Now if you agree then it's an easy thing to fix.

Next time you see your wife tell her you made a mistake. That you were thinking of your needs before those of the childrens, and that was wrong.

Thanks again for your input. I had a fairly good day today. I spent time with my kids. I guess I should clarify my kids, 2 girls, oldest 16 and youngest 13. Both know what their mother has done and aren't real happy about things, but they seem to accept it for now. I think I've put them through more anguish than their mother, because they've had to see me at my worst. I am trying to be not so emotional, but sometimes it gets hard. I did see my W today and told her it was ok to come over if she needed to see the kids. She laughed at me. I don't know if that was good or bad...
I live in Alaska and the summer here is so awsome and it makes me glad that I'm alive. I'm glad this didn't happen during the long winters here because that would have been really hard to handle. Anyways, got a new book today and started reading it, "His Needs, Her Needs". I feel better and I've said to my self, I'm not gonna be upset today!!! Thanks again for the help... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />