My H has been involved in a long-distance EA that's been getting more and more intense over the last two years. Our marriage has been under great stress lately (small children, breast cancer etc) and I know that I've probably LB'd him into his EA.
I want to start plan A, but he absolutely will not admit that this friendship has anything to do with the deterioration of our marriage.
She's married with children. I'm guessing that she's keeping the intensity of the friendship a secret from her H--at least she hints so in her messages to my H. Should I let her H know I'm worried? I don't know him. I haven't been able to get his email or work phone or anything. Should I call their home and hope to get him alone? What can I say? How should I approach him? HELP!!!!!

riekena,

I would call the house and tell tell him how you feel, and why you feel that way. Just be prepared for his answers and discussions. Also you do not know what kind of person you are calling, so be aware of that. You might also want to keep some proof handy.

I do not live in your home and therefore can comment on your situation in terms of EN's of LB's but.....when I see the words breast cancer and little children, I tend to think that there should be a little leaway and understanding throw your way.

My H's actions are so weird and so hurtful, at a time when I need him most, that I must have done something to bring them on.

My problem is that my "proof" is patchy. He stopped having sex with me after meeting her last summer and his behavior toward me changed. But this is not proof; it's just my feelings. There's the fact that I was reduced to buying his cell phone bills which he refused to show me, and discovered they talk constantly--at least four times a day. The longest talks lasted 363 mins, 180 mins, 179 mins. This is all I have of paper proof. I can listen to the voicemail messages she leaves him, and I know they have a song, an anniversary, and that she's openly encouraging him to hate me and to separate from me. There's very little there against her own husband. She does use a phonecard for these talks, and she leaves messages only when her husband is out of the house. And then there was the time he left their emails sitting openly on my computer and I read them, was horrified by her animosity against me, heard about their "over the top" friendship etc. But he just left it open that once--since he spends sleep time emailing her he's sleep deprived and very absentminded as a result-- we have no printer, I don't have his password, and again this is hearsay.

I need to get my H to the point where he admits that she's a part of the problem--lately she's been discouraging him from seeing an MC, she says he should call her instead!!! I keep thinking if I could get her H to be more conscious of her behavior, then maybe something could be done to get my husband to take some responsibility.

All this is very discouraging. We have an MC appointment in a few weeks, and he doesn't know I know what I do about his EA. He's said that if I snoop, he'll leave me--it's over.

What can I do? How can I approach the H?? Any polite ways of letting him know what little I know? If he tells his wife she'll tell my H and that'll be the end of my M.

Also, should I tell my H's mother and his brothers? How can I tell them without letting them know I've snooped?

I feel trapped. I wish I'd never found out about any of this. How can we heal if he won't admit what he's doing????? How can I let anyone know without exposing my snooping???

I need help!!!!!

riekena,

Tell him the thruth and back it up with time & date & duration of calls. I would not want my W taking to other guys many hours and many times. Call him, he might be already know or suspect about this EA.

-rh-

First off, I would like to slap your H in the head a couple of times, but I can not do that.

He is threatening you not to snoop. My W did not threaten me as she did not know that I was. If she knew before hand that I planned to snoop she probably would have threatened leaving me in order to keep the A secret, and to try and control me. I would have anyway. When she did see how much I snooped, she was pissed at me. I did it to find the truth not to impede on her privacy. She turned me into the snooper. She gets it now.

I bugged the phones, the house, put spyware on her computer, followed her, went into her voicemail, went through all the paper trails one could leave, and kept a journal on where she was and where she said she was at all times. I would have implanted GPS and bugging equipement under her skin if I could have. I even considered trying to get into her office to bug her there. In your case, you could maybe forward the voicemails to another voice mail box, and/or copy the e-mails to another file or cut and paste them into a word document while you build the evidence. In the end it was the phone bug that gave me the truth. The only reason I did not enlist the help of the OM's wife is because she was over 7 months pregnant at the time. Otherwise I would have gone to her first.

The fact that he speaks to her regularly and for long periods of time in not concreate proof, but a MAJOR tell tale sign. If I were her husband and you came to me with that kind of info, I would put on my investigations hat and work with you to find the truth. That is not to say he would, but it is what I would do. There is also a chance that he suspects something as well.

Now there are other factors here that I do not know. One is how healthy the M was before this started. You are going to see an MC so that is good. Do you have some people around you like friends or family that you could lean on a little? Coming here is good, but someone close to you could really help in your specific situation. Also, how long have you been married? How are the economics at home? Do you have finacial independance? Proof could help in that area if the courts ever needed to get involved. I may be jumping a little ahead here, but it would do you some good to at least know your options.

I am not you, but if it were in my situation. I would gather proof. I would get in contact with the other husband. I would tell him what you know. No guessing on what you do not, just what you know and state that there may be something you should both be concerned with. I would not accept my spouse telling me no snooping if there was good reason, and it seems to me there is. I would tell my spouse that I knew something was up. I would not put all my cards on the table as this would make them more cautious.

I would do all I could to find the truth. In my case it took 4 weeks to get to the truth. In that four weeks, my W knew that I was having trouble sleeping, and eating. That I was a mess. I never doubted her love for me, but knew that it was being shared with someone else. Until I knew the truth the A continued. Our M came close to ending at that point. Her fog started to lift only when the A was fully discovered. My W prescribed to NC and honesty and we have been recovering very well since.

One more thing.

If he feel he has to hide all this from you and talk to her behind your back then yes this is an EA.

Here's our situation: we've been together almost twenty-five years, we have two young children, and thanks to the cancer which happened very soon after the second one was born, yes, our marriage was under stress. Before that we went through some rough spots but there was little serious trouble --no affairs, no abuse. I am a stay-at-home mom.

This is part of the problem--his behavior is so weird, his denials so violent and my "proof" so flimsy, that how can I tell her H? What words do I use to approach him? If I had him face to face I would be less troubled, but he lives 1000 miles away, and the thought of starting cold on the phone with a man I don't know makes me sick. Do I just say, I feel a bit weird about the time our spouses spend communicating, do you feel that way too?

I'm so worried about destroying my marriage, perhaps destroying the OW's marriage, and humiliating myself while doing it. I love my H!!!

riekena,

Time to snoop. When and where do your hausband make a phone call ?. In the car, in the room or in the office or what ?. You could buy Voice Activated Recorder and sneak in somewhere. Do you have your home phone bill ?, detail phone bill ?, how about your H's cell ?. I would piss if my W is talking to other man for hours !.

-rh-

Riekena,

How much does your H know about what you know? How much have you discussed her with him? Does he know how much this is tearing you up inside? The OW lives a 1000 miles away, where did they meet? Have they ever met? Do they still have oppurtunities to see eachother?

Have you ever seen or heard anything where your husband talks bad about you?

On the subject of snooping: Spector makes a good spyware program. It can capture keystrokes, monitor e-mail, chats and screenshots. Where is your husband when they talk? If it is in the car, then maybe you can put a voice activated voice recorder under the seat and get at least his side of the conversation.

It is a shame that in most cases alot of time, effort, and sometimes money have to be spent to reveal the A before we can get on with what is important...recovery, and our lives.

I am so sorry you have to go through this.

The OW is my H's first girlfriend. She got back in touch with him two years ago. They communicate entirely via cell and online. He refused to show me his cell bills, so I bought them from Phonebust, which is how I know the length and time of their conversations. They do occasionally meet over long vacations.

He doesn't know that I used Phonebust; he doesn't know that I can access his saved voicemail. I've told him this situation is killing me, but he says I must trust him implicitly, that our problems have nothing to do with this woman, that he'll go to an MC but will make it clear that saving the M is not his first priority, and he absolutely refuses to see a priest.

I did have access to his online stuff once, and almost every other message had an insult aimed at me by both the woman and my H. I know that in her voice messages she says nasty stuff--I'm a terrible mother, I'm unreasonable, I do no work around the house etc etc etc. She's met me only once and has never been to my house.

What can I do? How can I go to an MC if I have to keep what I know a secret? How should I approach her H?? I keep thinking he might have more control over the situation than I do; at least he's not the one they spend their time insulting.

Also, last night I discovered that the husband will be alone next week; should I call him then? What can I say???????

riekena,

Listen carefully to their accusations and don't get enraged by it. Distinguish which are fact (this is your plan A material) and which are excuses. Fix your parts (Plan A) and prove them that you could change.

Meanwhile the info that you have is enough to talk to OW'H. Fax oe email the phone log or better get him to use phonebust also to get his W's detail phone. Or taped the voice mail as a prove too.

You have to find the right time to tell your WH what you know and let him decide what he wants to do. You could see our conselor individually and tell him/her what you know. Forget about honesty w/ WH right now ... be smart.

-rh-

I agree 100% with what redhat advises.

Also I think it is worth restating that to take everything said with a grain of salt. Improve where you think you can, no one is perfect and just take the rest with a grain of salt.

Call the OWH. Remember you do not know him, what he knows or even what he has been told about you. For example in my case the OMW was told that I was a suspicious control freak that beat my W. He was preparing her for me possibly calling her. To the point that the OMW told the OM that my W was welcome to stay at their house if I was getting out of control. This all changed when I presented her with proof, and in that over 3 hour taped phone conversation he even stated how he lieing to his W about me to keep things cool at home.

All I am saying is be prepared for anything and do not let it freak you out. You do not know what he may have already been told. Just be calm and state the facts, and back them up with what you have already. Trust me this is enough proof to get his mind going. He may not show it to you right away, but it will sink in eventually. Pieces of the puzzle on his side will start to fall into place.

As for him not wanting to go and see a MC. Well of course not. He is afraid that the subject of his "friend" will probably come up. As for the priest, well if I were him, I would not want to start lieing to church.

Expect him to do, and say some really weird and cruel stuff. It is all part of the A. I still cannot believe what my W knowingly put me through. It is not that she wanted to hurt me, she just was not ready to let go of the A.

Not because this is the direction you want or need to go in, but be sure to keep all proof in a safe place. Like car insurance, you may never need it, but it is good to have in case to protect yourself and children finacially later.