I've written elsewhere about WH's mourning for the OW. We had agreed on plan A. He made a call to end contact. He continues to cry, etc. and want her. She's called twice and e-mailed once. He is speaking to me as if he wants me to push him out the door.
The only thing he will commit to is that he will TRY for NC. He says he doesn't want to make a promise that he could break. He feels totally powerless over this. I can't understand that. If you make a promise not to do something, YOU DON'T.
I have basically told him that I cannot move on in Plan A if she is not totally out of the picture. We cannot heal if she is still there.

Plan B is seeming like the only option.

Thoughts?

I am losing it here.

re-read Plan A it has nothing to do with your husband. It's about you.

He's in withdrawl from the OW. He's is confussed and emotionaly mixed up about OW as you are about losing him. I know this sounds odd but it's true.

My WW confesed and left so I can't offer any advice on dealing with the emotional turmoil at home but others will be here soon.

Keep working on YOUR plan A and keep reading all you can. BTW make sure the affair is out in the open by telling family, friends the OW Husband if she has one and maybe even her famliy if possiable. Let the preasure built.

By all accounts it took my WW affair about 4 months to end after it was out in the open. The OM who was married called it off.

I know it can take time. All I am asking for is REAL no contact. I've used the analogy of alcoholism. If he wants to make a call, he can call his sponsor, therapist, me, ANYONE. Like someone married to an alcoholic, I need to know he is not drinking. And he is choosing not to because it hurts me.
NC is a choice. The longing for her and mourning I can deal with. It is the absence of a commitment that I can't handle.
I have been sobbing all afternoon.

SusanBT,

What ENs does OW fill ? It must be something that you have to learn to fill in. Get your WH medication, anti depressant. Withdrawal is very real ... it is not about you it is about WH trying to surpress his feeling. In some cases couple moved out of state or far away town to rebuild !!!.

WH is weak ... and need help R U going to punish him by plan B ?. Other than NC with OW does he really trying ? really trying to make you happy, responsive to you etc ???.

-rh-

Susan,

Did you read that article I sent you? Your husband really craves attention.....it's his nature. If you go to Plan B....as we talked before, it will just enable his affair....since what he wants to do is to be given time to pursue it. I wouldn't do another B with this man. It would be Plan A to help get through withdrawal....but if he resumes contact....you walk....no Plan B by my way of thinking.

The emotional need she seems to fulfill is a need for emotional intensity. He was abandoned, essentially, as a child. I think that is part of why he craves this and the attention.

Yes, he is responsive to me, but is doing little to ease my pain.

I could be more patient, but I've been down this road before. He can say he is committed to me but if he calls her for his "fix," what kind of assurance is it to me that he wants to be with me. I am a total basket case. He is clearly NOT commited if he cannot promise he won't feel weak and pick up the phone.

I lived through TEN MONTHS of vascillation the first time, while the OW called nearly daily. I cannot go there again.

Yes, I read the article Star*fish. It is pretty scary. I am doing everything I can to be his Source of Narcissistic Supply--within my limits. I've just been through too much to allow him to continuously hurting me by maintaining a relationship with her.

If he leaves, he is risking a thirteen year marriage, his family, our life together, potentially even his job, on the OFF CHANCE that this could his true soul mate. We went through a TREMENDOUS amount of pain with a number of crises early in our marriage. We've been through the ordeal of his first affair, only to build what I thought was an INCREDIBLE marriage. Given all of the above, if he is willing to take these risks that tells me what I am really dealing with. That is consistent with the article. As it states, I can't be afraid of losing him. If he chooses her over me, I have to recognize that I really didn't have what I though I had.

Susan,

The article scared me too....not just for you...but for me as well. My H exhibits a great deal of this also...and the fear that I will never be enough is palpable. All I'm really saying is that while Plan B may work for a different kind of person, I'm not sure how beneficial it will be for you....with this partner. I strongly suggest that he get counseling. I insisted on 6 months of IC for my spouse....and I do believe it helped immensely. I don't blame you for feeling frightened and worried about your future....I feel that way for you. There came a time in my life, where I did realize that there were worse things than losing my husband....and that was keeping him if he couldn't change. My H has changed dramatically. But it took great crisis for that to happen and alot of self exploration and counseling. I'm so sorry this is so hurtful.

<small>[ August 06, 2003, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

Thanks, Star*fish. I agree. It would be worse losing him than keeping him if he wouldn't change.
He has been in IC. I think he's been to sessions in the past two weeks. He has another one tomorrow. I am hoping the two of them will be able to sort out some of his conflicting feelings.
I agree that it is not an optimal situation for this kind of man. Which is why I have made it clear that he might TRY to have his cake and eat it to, but I intend to move on. I know a lot of people disagree with things like considering dating, etc, but if I sit around and assure him I will be just waiting for him, that is exactly what he wants. And it doesn't help him improve. I have told him if he wants to get better he has to do the work. Part of that is experiencing the pain of withdrawl. If he feeds that with her, recovery is delayed again. I wish he could see that.
I have to prepare myself for moving on. It is for my sanity too. I cannot keep hurting like this. He hasn't chosen to stopt doing it.

Yes, you have the right to walk away since D-day. Yes, you are hurting badly. This is my suggestion. Let your WH take care of your kids for a weekend. Take a vacation, away from your kids & WH & away from daily routine. A retreat !. I did this a few months after D-day when my ExW just blantly continuing A and I can't take it no more. I even thought that SH enjoyed the tourture that I received. But SH was right ... always ... That weeks at Bend, OR really make me face the deamon. I know I could walk away but I choose to stay not for her but for me & for my 2 D. I continue plan A since I still have to prove misbeleive to her the issues that she has with me in M. 3 months later she filed since she has to either admit that she was wrong and come home or shut me out completely.

Now here I am, my M didn't survive A but I survived A ... I am thriving so does my 2 D. I am greatfull taking that painfull path ... taking SH's advice.

Try to take away the bottle from an alcoholic, he would choose the bottle over anything in the world ... try to take away the needle from an narc he would even kill you. IT IS NOT BETWEEN YOU AND OW ... IT IS ABOUT HIM AND HIS ADDICTION (OW).

Take a break from all of this and think it over.

-rh-

Iwish I had the opportunity to take time off. I teach and just started school today. Talk about crazy--trying to put on a happy face while my life is falling apart.
I just talked to him. We're giving it a week. At least I will know whether or not to move on. I don't know how I will hold on that long.

susan, I posted to you on the GQII board...had convo with cerri.

I just started Plan B last Tuesday. I found out that he was leading me on that he had no contact with OW while on Plan A. I had been on Plan A since August last year. It seems like a long one, but it was by no means perfect. When I found out in July that he was playing both of us, I finally decided to go to Plan B.

Over the weekend, I was in contact with him due to children's upcoming school schedule and he proceeded to tell me that he will be doing no contact with her for the next week and a half and will have a conversation with her about the lies that he had told her. He feels that because of the story that he is telling her is the main reason why she is staying around waiting for our separation to be final. Well duh...

I told him that when he tells her, that I would prefer it to be in a form of a letter. He feels that he owes her a one on one. I feel rejected all over again. To think that he places that much importance about her or her feelings for that matter.

How can I convince him not to do it in person? Is there anything I can do about this? Please share some ideas.

Thanks

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by supermom:
<strong>How can I convince him not to do it in person? Is there anything I can do about this? Please share some ideas.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You don't need to convince him. You demand on it ... period. If he wants to do it in person, you should go with him. At this point, do you send a copy of your plan B to OW ... if you have not done so do it.

You should not even have contact with WH until he is willing to work on M.

-rh-

I'm sure when redhat says "demand" she doesn't mean the LB kind. Try to talk to him and share the danger of face to face meetings, and how many WS's fall into that trap. Tell him how you feel that he chooses to protect her, but will not protect your marriage. Explain that it is one of the conditions for returning home because he shows a commitment to the marriage that going to see her does not.

Thanks for the response. What do I accomplish by mailing a copy of my Plan B letter to the OW. Right now I know that he is telling her candy coated stories about us, basing it on her comment to me.

Also, for the past two days, my WH decided to keep me updated on his minute by minute activities. It is making it hard for me to keep my no contact policy because it melts my heart everytime I hear his voice. I have a nextel that he can just radio me as he wishes.

Unfortunately, I know that he is still in contact with her and I need to keep this plan to end the misery. Knowing that they are still in contact makes me feel like a fool for continuing to work at this relationship.

It makes me sad to think that I may be losing hope in this relationship altogether.

Do you really understand plan B ?. Plan B is no contact !. You are in full contact right now with WH. Please read plan B concept.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by supermom:
<strong>What do I accomplish by mailing a copy of my Plan B letter to the OW. Right now I know that he is telling her candy coated stories about us, basing it on her comment to me.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Make OW awares that you exist and you are willing to fight for your H.

-rh-

What do I accomplish by mailing a copy of my Plan B letter to the OW.
It lets the op know that you love your spouse and still are committed to the marriage and are waiting for a chance with your spouse.

Many times, the ws tells the op that the bs kicked them out and are filing for divorce. etc. Sending them the letter makes sure they have the correct story.

<small>[ August 20, 2003, 09:26 AM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Supermom,
I've just caught up on your situation. I'm running out the door, but want to respond later. I don't have much advice--you just sound like you are in the same state I am in, and so I can just lend some support. I will write later. In the meantime,
{{{{{Supermom}}}}}

Redhat and everyone who have been responding, thanks. I re-read plan B again. The reason why I decided to go to Plan B, was due to the fact that I found out that he still continues to contact other woman and he is at the point of deciding between us. Per Harley, its time to do plan B when he is deciding between the OP and BS.

I have allowed him to come around the house and have tried (though not perfect) Plan A since January of this year because he says he thinks he wants to come back.

His reason for staying in contact with OP is that he feels that it could not work between the two of us, specially when things get complicated and we have disagreement. I think the root of most of my angry outburst is not knowing what he is up to 24/7 and that just bothers me.

When I start feeling the pain all over again, I go into my how could you have done this mode.....and you know how that goes. Tears and sadness and confrontation about the reasons behind the affair. Also, I just feel like I am doing all the work and he has not really tried to do anything other that go to counseling to figure out why he is the way he is now(not happy with himself basically).

I found out the first week of this month that he has had contact with her all along and continue to sleep together. He is apparently been telling her that he is ready to leave me and he tells me that this is why OP continues to stay with him.

I am hurt all over again. The hard part is that it is difficult to completely sever communication with him because of the children. I try to keep the conversation minimum and only pertaining the children but its hard not to put other things into the conversation. As I go over children activities, I would realize how much I needed him (one of his EN that supposedly not met during marriage is he did not feel needed) and I meltdown all over him and tell him again how much I wanted him to come home.

I have to admit that some days, the taker in me comes out, and it comes out more of a demand or control, and I know that is an LB.

I am just hurting so much still and getting tired of this charade.

Just a short history about us. WH has had numerous affairs since we got married. Started out as ONS then prior to the last one was a 2 1/2 years affair. The latest one has been going since early 2002 up until now.

He says, he has been contemplating leaving me for a while. I am too independent and hard to love. He says, I am difficult to talk to because I don't listen. I have let myself go.

In defense, I have dedicated my life as a mom. I have to admit, I have ignored my needs for the sake of the family and my children. I make decent money, but rely on his income. I always ignore how I feel deep inside so as not to rock the boat, but it always came out as anger when I start to confront him. Many times, I have ask that the way he spends his time with us (his family) did not make any sense. I have more than several occassions confronted him if he is having an affair and have always denied it (of course. I had completely trusted him and just let that feeling go.

We were interdependent(this is a good thing per Harley) of each other on some of our EN except for love(we have what I call practical love and missing romantic love), affection and respect for each other. We are competitive of each other instead of complimentary in our accomplishment. Sex was not great for him, although as I got older, I thought it got better for me.

Since I have been jolted by reality, I am now taking more care of myself. I think I am pretty much back to the way I look when I was 20 years old physically. I am finding ways to overcome my insecurity (never pretty enough, etc.)

I am trying to learn to accept myself and love myself. I am trying to enjoy other activities other than my usual motherly obligations. He has complemented more times of all my accomplishment, since DDay but I guess I am still scary to him because I am still pretty angry and can get really angry (just yelling and refuse to listen).

I have been reading a lot. I have been lurking this site for over a year now and it helped me tremendously just knowing that other people are suffering like me.

Friends and relatives at this point are all saying you have done enough, leave him. Since this is pretty much the opinion I am getting and not quite ready to give up, I started posting and it feels great to get an opinion from unbiased audience.

Since plan B, some days I do wake up and say, I have had enough, until the time I am in touch with him, again because of kids activities, etc. It is very difficult to not talk to him throughout the day because of the childrens day to day activity, picking up dropping off, etc.

I know he loves me and realize all the sacrifices that I have done. I know, he knows that I did not deserve to be subjected to all the pain of any affair.

I also know that he has been lonely just because he does not know how to communicated his EN. Again, our interdependence on most of our EN but not all of the EN got us to where we may never completely empty the love bank from each other.

But I am tired of this. I am ready to give it all up. I want him to carry me for a change and fight for this marriage for a change. What else can I do or how else I can keep up the strenght and continue the fight.

Married 17 years
3 children
Me 41
H 41
WH multiple affairs
H moved out 9/02
Found out 8/02
IC with Harley
WH has lifecoach

PS

OP knows that I am desperately working hard to make this marriage work and my family together. I told her so. She responds to me as if I am crazy because she hears a different story from him.

Also, she gets angry at him when he comes around to assist me or chooses to spend time with the family or respond to my request for help.