It's been what, a couple months? Well, I took everyone's advice, I was patient as I could be, I improved a lot of things about myself and went with Plan A. Since working on managing my angry outbursts, and paying close attention to addressing her with respect every time and requesting the same from her (respectfully), our conversation on the phone and email have improved a lot.
So, here's the update, because I'm kind of at a loss as far as what to do now. I don't think a Plan B would be good now, but it's crossed my mind because of the seeming impasse. Anyway, catching you up:

After improved conversations for a couple weeks, a visit by her mom, who flew out there to address this issue (didn't ask her to), and plan Aing fairly well, she started opening up just a little. Then it all happened somewhat quickly; she was open to discussion on things that were previously closed, then she filled out the ENQ and sent it to me, she agreed that we would need to spend time together in order to figure things out, and she said that the only reason she was returning to the area after her deployment was to figure things out with me. Shortly after the ENQ, I got a shocker of an email. It was titled "can I come home". In it, she explained that she had done a lot of soul searching while the OM was away for a while on leave (that supported a theory I had about her cooperation), that she felt tapped here and there in the right direction by me, her mom, coincidences, maybe God, etc. She even discussed plans on making things better once we were back together such as activities, visiting parents more, going to church. This was initiative I'd never seen before! I was shocked, then excited, then remembered that it was most likely that there would be a 180 following this since she was just poking her head out of the fog for a minute as most do. I was right. Encouraged by her ENQ, I filled out mine and sent it to her. She recieved it almost at the same time she was sending me that email. She found her excuse to duck back in the fog, swearing to stay there, treating my ENQ as a personal attack on her. After a couple emails doing my best to explain things without pleading with her not to give up (moderate success there), she came back with a ton of hesitation and was willing to continue talking about plans a little. Still scared though, seeing herself as making herself vulnerable for one moment and "look what happens".

Now though, since that setback with the ENQ, several things "happened" that would prevent her from coming home. First, it was that if she requested to come home early to take care of family issues, she might get called up to the Middle East in a couple months after. I looked into this and assured her that wouldn't happen. Then, it was that someone else needed to go home more than her and that she would rather the other person get to go home since she had kids. Now, I have 14 years in and I know that the Army will always find replacements for lost soldiers, especially when their job isn't that hard or critical. They can both go home on hardships. I explained this to her but she didn't want to hear it. When asked about the OM, (btw this was a first that she would discuss him at all. I promised her strict secrecy from my command to reassure her, which I will uphold) she explained the he was "up in the air" and she didn't know where it stood. It seems that things had been declining with them, at least in her mind, and she stated that a letter to his ex-gf helped her to decide her somewhat short-lived decision to reconcile.
Now, she has made her decision to finish her tour there in CA and not come home, siting reasons of compassion for that other needy soldier. Therefore, I am now in a dilemma, and here are my options as I see them. Feel free to offer other ideas. Please. Btw, I'm on my way "home" (as it were) and should be there around the beginning of Sept. Anyway, options:

1) She found that there was a position open that I could possibly get where she is stationed. The length of the orders would put me past her end date for hers so who knows if she would stay after that or what. I'm assuming it would depend on how things went over the next couple months. Also, there is no gaurantee that she would stop seeing OM while I am there. She did, however, state that she realizes there would have to be changes, but did not specify what those would be.

2)There is a similar position in our home state, which would keep me apart from her, but would allow me more time alone, in the real world to adjust to society, get a feel for what this situation feels like without a war going on around me, and allow me to set up a stable home (gonna have to move and get that job or another), so that by Dec., if she wants, she will have that stability to come home to. I have to admit though, the thought of her staying there another couple months with OM, and playing the usefulness of that out until she comes home and he is no longer useful, irks the hell out of me. This seems the ultimate salt in my wounds and makes me think of Plan B again, to avoid the resentment taking over.

So, those are the options I see so far. Oh, the other is to forget it all while I go to Special Forces, and I'll see her in a couple years or so, maybe. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

You guys are the best and you've helped me so much before. Could you put your heads together on this one, and let me know what you think? I'm kinda torn here. I have about a week and maybe a half to decide which way to go since that's when I will have to make plans for my life stateside. I don't want to be deciding these things while I'm coming home to an empty house filled with our things and no homecoming, etc. I'll be dealing with enough at that point so I want to do the deciding part before hand. Also, my feelings haven't changed, so that factor remains constant. Time has beaten them about a little, casting doubts where there were none before, but I'm still fairly strong in my love and devotion. I still want to spend my life with this woman. She's really a wonderful person despite all this. Just like it said in SAA, it can happen to the best of us. She was lacking some things and there it was for her and she took it. I forgive her though, but now I'm trying to forget. This has been difficult with OM still in the picture. Imagine that. I just want to move on with our lives and make things better like I know we can.
She's very confused though. She doesn't know what to base her decisions on. The past is clouded in her memory and she only remembers the bad things now, which if she bases her decisions on how she remembers things were, with that skewed vision, that's bad. And then there is the present and future. She seems encouraged by my efforts and changes but is having trouble with the enormous faith it takes to trust that she won't get hurt again, and now she is using that ENQ as an example of this. After that, btw, I followed up with another form of ENQ that had all the things she did well. Until she responded the way she did, I didn't see how negative the ENQ could really look to someone. Granted, I was a little harsh when filling it out, but not to that extent.
Anyway, ideas?

Now her mom is going out there again, and is asking my advice. I don't know what to tell her. I'm not interested in trying to influence my W through her mom in any way. I really want to be hands free of that. So, what do I say? If I remember, I think so far I told her I can't help her much. Maybe something like tell her what you think or something, I don't recall. It's always 2am or so when I write these. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

So....what do I do??? Somethings gotta happen here, but I don't know what the right thing for the both of us is. It's almost decision time. If she doesn't, I'll have to. She seems to WANT to make decisions together, but at the same time, she's not willing to protect me by leaving OM, even though it's obvious, she's falling out of love with him. I don't want to risk losing her, but if you think I should Plan B, then I will have to seriously consider it. But, if so, now, or when I get settled? I'm in total transition right now.

thanks guys

Good to hear from you again DW.

I'm not going to say 'do this, do that' but I will offer you the following points for you to consider. DO NOT underestimate the difficulty of marital recovery. It is many times tougher to deal with than the ongoing A. If you don't have enough love left in your love bank, your chances of your marriage making it are not good.

Plan B is risky because one of its major components is no contact separation with the WS until the WS end the A forever and agrees to willingly follow a marital recovery plan with a pro-marriage oriented professional like Steve Harley or Penny Tupy (our resident MB coach, Cerri, and founder of Save Your Marriage Central ) as well as following The Four Rules For A Succesful Marriage . But separation is already a reality for the two of you because of your military careers, so that leaves only formalizing Plan B by issuing a no contact letter or e-mail with the above as pre-conditions for returning.

Should you go to Plan B? Here's something that may help you make up your mind and it's from the man himself:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"When your spouse is trying to decide between you and the lover, it's time for Plan B."
...Willard F. Harley Jr. PhD.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good luck and keep us posted.

Desert Wolf,

Here's my 2 cents.

Go to the Just found out thread here and make a post to Cerri and let her know it's an emergency.

It doesn't sound like you have done a serious Plan A, and that would be logical under your conditions the last few months.

I am replying because I was in exactly your situation a year ago - do I go where my WH is or do I go hundreds of miles away and go where I will ge the support for me.

Everyone convinced me that I should move away and that is what I did. I regret that decision. I honestly believe that my WH wanted me to be there and he took the fact that I moved away that I was not serious. Fog, again.

I should have gone where my WH was living with the OW and fought for him by executing the best plan A that I could, and then, and only then considered moving away or going to Plan B.

I was too hurt and confused and I believed everything he was saying at the time, now I know that it was just more fog talk. Thousands of marriages are restored every day - and your window of opportunity is open here. Try a post to Mortarman, he may be able to help you lay out a battle plan, he is very good at that.

If your WW wants you to be close to give things a chance, you can still set up boundaries to protect yourself, and yes, it will be the hardest thing you have ever had to do. Do you love her that much? Do you really want this M?

Then don't quit now. You will get a lot of opinions on here, but not all will have to walk in your shoes, so choose wisely.

The weekend is always slow here, so try again on Monday.

Let us know how you are. You may have been gone, but some of us have been praying for you.

cajeanie

Dear Deset Wolf,

Thanks again for serving the country, with the risks you are taking.

I had previously replied when you had posted under Negotiations. TOOMUCHCOFFEEMAN is very knowlegable, and the quote from Dr. Harley that if your wife is teetering, then it is time for Plan B, is a good question.

I more come down with Cajeanie, though, that your wife seems to be looking for more Plan A.

I do not usually post under Plan A and Plan B, but one thing that helps me with the rough spots in my marriage, is the idea that I am trying to do right by my wife. Even if I eventually fail, I will have built up points for having put in a good effort with my current marriage. One day at a time. I can look my next wife in the eye, and say I tried to make the current marriage work, and she should trust me as a good husband.

I believe the Ranger training would be optional, and you apparently do not have POJA on doing the Ranger training.

Unless you feel you would lose it with OM, then try to show your skills in Plan A to your WW. Taking her out to lunch once in a while is an important part of Plan A, or staying married, or problem solving, in my experience.

You should be there in case the other guy gets tranferred. I am not sure about how far your home is from where WW is stationed, but more available seems better.

An important power that I recommend that you keep firmly in mind is your Walk Away Power. That is, if things start to heat up, you can About Face and walk out the door, of wherever you are.

Best wishes,

Quipper
Married 28 years and still struggling

Dear Desert Wolf,

Some further thoughts. It seems that the E-mail you sent to WW, that she found offensive, may give us a direction. I have tried to develop my skills of listening to my wife, in a non-judgemental way. I am very careful about asking her for anything, or discussing my problems.

Many women appreciate listening skills in a man, and for many men, listening patiently needs to be worked on and developed, rather than occurring naturally.

You are putting emphasis on finding the meaning of what your wife says. I suggest the your goal could be to deveop questions that guide WW to positive directions.

Hopeful 98, 28063 had just initiated plan B when I read her posts, and formed an opinion that she was not listening to her husband sufficiently before putting in Plan B. My opinion may be right or wrong, but I discussed developing listening skills with her 8-3-03, under PLAN A, PLAN B, thread Title: TIME FOR PLAN B.

There are many ways to develop listening skills. Go over the E-mail you wrote, and see how many statements that you made, that could have been turned into questions, and still raised the subject with WW. Not all questions are always good, because questions can worded to imply facts.

I suggest for what to tell MIL, is that you are working at becoming a better quality husband, with increased abilities to listen and ask thoughtful questions, to lead your WW into constructive conversation.

You may wish to look at the MB ten emotional needs in marriage, and see which needs your wife may have. Under the top bar Questionaires, there are a number of MB principles, in question form. Ask you MIL what you may be missing that is important to WW. Perhaps I am wrong that your WW would value improved listening skills from you.

I will check back to see if you get time to post your thoughts.

Best Wishes,

Quipper,
Married 28 years and still strugling

<small>[ August 17, 2003, 06:49 PM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>