H 39
WS 34
No Children
DD 8/1

I've been trying to convert a Plan A to Plan B. I did read the Plan B 101 and 102. I think I blew it. First of all I may be jumping around but that's how I feel. Excuse the rookie abbreviations.

Basically my plan A was about 3 weeks.
The critical period came when my WS would not agree to my request through counseling to break off contact with OM. The counseling had lasted 4 sessions and my WS didn't want to be there in the first place. The counselor stated she couldn't help the M if the OM was still in contact. She advised on individual sessions which I'm doing, WS declined. So I requested that my WS move out, no letter sent to the OM or my spouse. The A has been long distance through the computer and a couple of visits. The A has been going on for about 6 months back in her hometown with an ex HS love who just got married last month. I only found out of the A for the last month. In the counseling the intent to move back to hometown 2K miles away was engraved my WS's head. Things are moving so fast, my Plan A was a blurr, currently we're in process of taking care of some financial issues, before she moves home, so tensions are high.
Her intent is to be back in her hometown by the end of the month.

Last night, out of desperation I called my WS and LB'd. She asked if I was done with the lecture. I advised her that the only person she's hurting is herself and for her to realize the consequences of her actions. She's giving up her career and she never gave me a chance.

We'll I did one more big no no, this morning I called the OM and advised him of the pain ans suffering his actions have causes. I did not use any destructive anger, I just asked his intentions and expressed the love I had for my wife.
He acted stunned, but respectful, his response to my intention inquiry was just as vagued as my WS.

So far no response from my WS. The OM stated he had longed for my wife for some time and what she's doing to me now was done by her to him in years earlier. He said he knew how it felt to be hurt by her. I reminded what happened to him did not involve a marriage. I told him to go ahead and tell my WS of my actions, I would be expecting the call. He said if I needed to talk to him I could call, what the hell was that. He also he would not tell my WS of the conversation, Yeah, right! This whole thing is like a bad dream.
I know I made 2 huge mistakes, and I was weak. My WS is going to let me have it when she finds out. My concern is that I blew the smooth transition from plan A to B, but what plan A did I have, and that I LB'd going into Plan B. Should I tell my WS of my conversation with the OM, let it lie or now write the letter.
I need to find stregnth within, but I right now I can't

God Bless!

<small>[ September 05, 2003, 06:38 PM: Message edited by: what am I doing ]</small>

Just to make sure, how do you go into plan B ?. Is A out in the open already ?.

-rh-

I felt that I did not have a lengthy Plan A, period maybe 2-3 weeks, during that time we talked held hands and both admitted that we cared for eachother.
WS admitted to the A, but couldn't be honest or discontinue contact with the OM.
Her Best friend confided to me that sexual contact had been going on during my WS visits home for the last six months. My WS only admits to an EA, I think she only wants to protect me because she knows it would hurt me. Do I confront her or just let it be, I've told an A is A no matter physical or EA and that through counseling we could work on this. She said that it wouldn't help to see the counselor again.
At our final counseling session that led up to her leaving my WS stated that she could stay with me and we could be best friends and everything would seem great but it wouldn't be enough for her. She stated she loves me, but I do not fulfill her physically or mentally. That spiritually we've grown apart and that she'd rather be alone than with me. She wanted out, so I couldn't stop her. But out of desperation , thus what happened in my original post.
I just think so much has gone on so fast, a lot of bad decisions and forced issues to get to this point.
Is their hope? Like I said we have had contact for her to take her items and it seems as if she's in a different world. I guess it's some sort of withdrawal, she acts like nothings wrong. She gave notice to leave her job by the end of the month. She advised her co-workers that she wants to go back home and that I wasn't enough for here to stay. Her coworker who was the maid of honor in our wedding had suspicion of the A and called to inquire what was going on. She said everyone is heartbroken for us but that my WS is actually acting upbeat.

Also, I'm still waiting for her to come unglued over the contact with the OM and what about his comments I listed in my original post, any recommendations on my next step besides letting go. Do I still give her a plan B letter in her eyes it may be another lecture.

We're going to the bank this morning to take care of money and credit cards.

By way married 4 years, dated 2.

God Bless!

<small>[ September 06, 2003, 09:26 AM: Message edited by: what am I doing ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by what am I doing:
<strong>Do I still give her a plan B letter in her eyes it may be another lecture.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are not in plan B ... you should be in plan A. Live Learn and Love ... give plan A another shot, it took many time for me to get it right and even after counseling with SH. You know that w./o a kid plan B is not recomended.

Be her best freind for now ... and give her good memory of you.

Now have you make plan A actions list ? Think about what she said before D-day about you and this M over and over ... if she repeats it again after d-day ... you know you have to work on those.

What do you know about OM ? is he married ? have you contacted his W ? ... try to find out.

-rh-

Thanks RH.

According to my WS and in my conversation with the OM, I confirmed he just got married last month.
I don't know if I should believe either one of them. Since they both lied about sleeping together. My WS still has not disclosed the full depth of the A. She claims it was an EA while she disclosed to her best friend that sex had taken place. Should I confront her on this???
If so, what should I expect her actions to be.
What's killing me now is the dishonsety not the actual A.

How should I go about contacting his wife, I wouldn't wish this pain on someone else.

This is what happened today, we just came back from a good afternoon together.
We did discuss our finances together and for protection purposes developed a financial plan during our separation. It mostly surrounded credit cards and house issues. She still has her heart in going back home at months end.
It was awkward at times. I flat out told her that I couldn't believe what we we're doing. I asked her if
this is what she really wanted, she looked me in the eye and hesitated and said, " yes".

The things she mentioned before D-day and again today was some of the EN's that I wasn't giving her that led her to look elsewhere. The biggest one was that I had looked to others for assurance and didn't take her opinion into consideration. She did advise me on this before, but do to her issues with confrontation
when I continued to make the same mistake she held it in and let it go on without comment. I guess it surrounds my own self-confidence. I agreed, but also pointed out that in the beginning of our relationship she had some esteem issues that we worked on together. And that why we couldn't work on my confidence issues together. Her point was this was something that I had to work on for myself. I don't know if her comments were right or wrong. This is something I'll discuss in my next counseling session.
I did drop a bomb on her at this point, I inquired if she had been honest with me, she said, " yes".
We'll since your so honest with me I had to be honest with her. I told her about the conversation with the OM. You should of seen her face. She froze up, turned red and I could feel it coming, but since we were at the Bank at the time she held it in. She asked when and then blurted out, " why didn't the OM tell her this". You could see the wheels turning, I was surprised it seemed she was more upset with him than with me.
We went to lunch together and advised her if she can call him so could I, I advised her that our conversation was not malicious in any way.

Surprisingly at lunch we went back to discussing our EN's. She said she that this time apart will make us realize something's and that we should enjoy it to find out more about ourselves, she commented who know's we might realize what we had wasn't that bad.
She also stated that her going home is something she'll have to do to find out something about herself.,
or in my mind the intent of the OM.

Like I said earlier, do I confront her on the extent of the A. Or will this just push her further away?

God Bless!

<small>[ September 07, 2003, 08:27 AM: Message edited by: what am I doing ]</small>

I have my first session with SH today.

Had dinner with WS last night.
I asked for complete honesty I needed to know in her eyes when did our M failed.
She was extrmely honest, and finally admitted to the PA. She seemed relieved, so did I.
She also told me she she's thought of him every day since High School
(14 years)

She stated that they've both told eachother they love one another. I asked why did she M me, she said that she did love me. I asked for her intent with OM when she goes home,
She claimed she did not know. She'd like to be with him, but he's M. I didn't feel too good about her comments but reminded myself I asked for her total honesty. I don't know if this was right, It seemed it was justifying her love for the OM.
I then I asked if she had intent of filing for the big D. She then stated that she didn't want the D. She's going home find herself, she may find that's not what she wants. She wanted to keep her options open. There I go back on the fence. The more I think about it I didn't need that much honesty.

We did discuss what happened to us to lead up to the A. I felt some EN's being deposited, even though I felt like I was her second choice.
I feel that there's hope, but need the stregnth.

Plan A or Plan B.
I'll advise on SH direction.

God Bless

WAID,
you don't sound like you're in plan A or plan B or that you have any plan at all at the moment. it sounds like you're handling this thing, "flying by the seat of your pants."

if it were me that was confronted by the situation that you seem to be in, i would back off, go dark and begin disconnecting. that is restructuring my life to suit a man with out a wife and in limbo.

i would begin by making life style changes, cosmetic changes and finding new ways and new interests to take my mind of the obvious and keep myself moving forward in posative persuites.

as for the wife...i would not make myself terribly available. i would create financial boundries and never allow her to think that i'm standing by just waiting for her to make a choice.

at this pont i would really need to sieze control of my life. as things are right now..."it's hapening to you!" you need to make things happen because of you.

your wife needs to finds herself so let her. you have no control over what she does and who she is doing it with. you do have control over yourself and you do have control over the man she is going to come in contact everytime she reconnects to you... just to be sure that you'll still be there for her!

i would make sure that this man (you) is self confident, calm and very much in control of himself and his life. that she percieves a man who is busy, happy and going forward...that's made changes in himself for his own betterment...that he growing from the negative experinece rather then suffering because of it!

let her do the worrying for a change! let her wonder if she's loosing her open ended option. let her begin to understand what she may be throwing away.

coach

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by what am I doing:
<strong>I felt some EN's being deposited, even though I felt like I was her second choice. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Plan A always if you can and if you haven't get all the fact and the info on hand.

Snoop about OM. Is he ready to take your WW ?. Is he a player or is he there for the long haul ?. Did he have A before this one ?. I would gather info. as much as I can then make a decision to inform OMW.

Don't do anything harsh ... keep your LB to nil and wait for your coach (SH).

-rh-

Coach,

Your right about flying off the seat of my pants.
I had my first session with SH today. He agreed I needed to slow down and that I'm in Plan A.
His recommendation was for me to be confident and subtly begin depositing into the LB. He stated, start slow and be persisitant, and that I shouldn't go to Plan B (no children).
The big hurdle is that she is leaving, I guess I must face it. SH said her actions are of an addict and that I shouldnt disconnect but support.
He's the pro, I need to make a plan.
I just get so frustrated that I'm creating more conflict within myself.

WAID

<small>[ September 11, 2003, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: what am I doing ]</small>

RH

SH recommends I should contact OM one more to drop a hint that his newly married life would be placed in turmoil if my WS would show up on his doorstep. I'm getting conflicting advise from this board and SH regarding initiating or detaching with WS. Like I said earlier, I need a plan. I'm going through the ups and downs,
time to take control.

WAID

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by what am I doing:
<strong>I'm getting conflicting advise from this board and SH regarding initiating or detaching with WS.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Follow SH, you are paying for his advice ... I was on his hand for a while. We are just a bunch of wannabe <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

I won't waste time anymore and contact OM after you read this post. This is the part where you try to gauge how deep their A is. This is the part of trying to negotiate to end the A. Do it and report back to SH.

-rh-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by coach3530:

your wife needs to finds herself so let her. you have no control over what she does and who she is doing it with. you do have control over yourself and you do have control over the man she is going to come in contact everytime she reconnects to you... just to be sure that you'll still be there for her!

coach[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Coach,
Your words of encouragement are the cornerstone of my plan. The difficult part when I'm around her is the desire to break away from this strategy.
Part of me wants to disconnect due to the pain and actions of my WS. She tells everyone including myself that she hasn't felt this good in a long time. This is coming from her admitting only to me of the A, and that the pressures she perceived from our marriage are gone.
I'm going to work on myself and how I can shed some pressures that I impose on myself and those around me. It's difficult when she is leaving soon, I know my changes will take time and I'll have to let God take control, hopefully she will see them from 2K miles away.

God Bless!

<small>[ September 12, 2003, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: what am I doing ]</small>

WAID,
here's a technique that helped me. when having difficulty "disconnecting" from that over which i have no control.

i fell back on a "safe" word. when in any confusion or stress, i repeated this word to myself. at the time i was usually in a state of anger, hostility, or emotional pain. just saying the word caused enough of a pause in my behavior to often change how i proceeded to act.

just remember, the more independant that your W percieves you to be the less power she will feel that she has over the situation. the more obvious you are about a new direction in your life...the less power she will percieve herself to have.

as hard as it is, you need to communicate no anger to her. you need to communicate no feeling of self pity or emotional weakness. you must be calm, strong and confident. be cordial, be interested in what she has to say, but ask no questions!

these are all hard things to do but by doing them, you are seizing back control of your own life and nothing can be more important to you then that. when you once again feel confident in who and what you are she will feel it was well.

good luck.
coach

The advice that you are getting about telling the OM that you will contact his new bride is good advice. I would also mention to him that you will make his life miserable by also contacting his family, relatives, employer etc if he continues to interfere with your marriage.

Thanks Coach!

We’ll I contacted the OM again as SH recommended. I felt more confident in presenting some guidelines that SH helped on. 1) Make it a normal two-way conversation. 2) Ask if there’s anything the OP could do to change my WS in her ambition to relocate, (SH felt that my WW has an addiction to the OP)
3) In passing state that my WW may show up at his door

Again, the OP advised me of my WS in their HS days, and what she’s doing to me now had happened 11 years prior with my WS. The OP really seemed sympathetic and stated he knew what I was going through. I advised him that he wasn’t M in HS. He said my WS just left him without an explanation, no words at all. I said, if it’s happening to me it will happen to him again and this we’re both M. I asked if his wife knew of the A and he didn’t give an answer.
My WW contacted me within minutes and left a message clearly upset over my conversation with the OP.
I felt like I made a big LB, but SH wanted me to plant the seed in the OP mind of my W’s actions and potential turmoil caused in the OP new marriage. As if the OP cares.
I feel to put more efforts in contacting the OP and his W and friends would be against my Plan A of focusing on myself.
The love for my WW is slightly diminishing, I’ve written down the action items for my Plan A and they surrounding myself. I’m coming to realize that with my Plan A actions, I will change, but with my wife leaving I don’t know if she’ll see the changes 2K miles away.
It’s confusing in that my WW wife is now so confident and assured of herself, before she stated that she didn’t know what she wanted. But listening to her now, I’ve started to realize she does know what she wants, and it’s not me. Her parents and friends are amazed of her upbeat behavior. I’m coming to realize that no one can change her mind, and have begun to accept she’s leaving and work on myself.
The question I know there is no answer for is will she ever realize what she’s doing.
I’ve been slowly disconnecting, a 180 of sorts, she has called and inquired on how I’m doing, I keep the conversation focused on financial issues and not given her any feeling of pity. I’m beginning to advise our friends and family of the separation, those in my inner circle know of the A. It seems they’re going through the same emotions from sorrow to anger that I’am. I’m not given up; I’m just letting go and taking care of me.

God knows what will happen.

Take care

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by what am I doing:
<strong>I’m coming to realize that with my Plan A actions, I will change, but with my wife leaving I don’t know if she’ll see the changes 2K miles away.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you M is not slavagable it is her losses and your blessing ... and a blessing for your next mate. However I won't distant from her, you are in plan A ... you should keep the communication lines open as much as you can. I am pretty sure she is missing talking to you too. Conversation might be one of her top 5 ENs. Also w/ 2K miles, you have to have to get used to "touch and reach her" via phone line.

She don't need to see your changes ... she just needs to acknowledge it. You could talk about it, you could show it via your kids if you have any ... words travel <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

-rh-

WAID,
glad that you'e getting professional advice. and please put any idea that you're offending your WW out of your mind! full disclosure to the entire known world is the way to go! beside, her anger can't be an issue for you any longer. right now you're in a battle of wills and you can only win for both you and your WW by being strong and resolute.

as for the changes you make in yourself, my advice would be to not concern yourself with how she will eventually come to realize that you're making them...just have faith that she will! you must simply believe that you're doing what's right for both of you right now and she will eventually come to realize it.

i fervently believe that no one wants to be with a person for who they have no respect for. a book you may want to read is "Tough Love" by Dr. Pierson i believe (some one please correct me if i'm wrong.) he believes that when confronted by a wayward spouse, you must let them go...the dignity with which you allow this to happen may well in the end cause them to want to come back more than any other single thing you can think of.

good luck.
coach

redhat, need yr advice as u seem to be v clear about Plan A/B, I am confused.

I had been Plab A for 2 wks+ and of course LB past two nights after WH made some inconsiderate remarks. WH miss OM but still in M with me(BW) bec he said he has no choice, he is selfish, bad tempered and pide is everything to him. He cannot divorce bec of financial, our daughter and edo. But he is treating me more like a room mate.

Is this what I want in my M? I was hoping Plan A would get him out of the fog and return to me. He used to honest and trustworthy. He would not agree to NC and though I know he is trying not to meet up with OP, they are still contacting by phone and email.

Is Plan A getting me anywhere? Thinking of getting into Plan B after he confessed to me he is in M out of no other choice. I left home for a month b4 I started on Plan A last month and proposed D, he did not bother and I give up and come back to Plan A.

If we still stay under same roof(cause he will not move) can I Plan B?

Advice pse, really confused. Actually thought of giving up all this and just D or end my life. Its so heartbroken and pointless. Once a heart change its gone, do I really wan this man anymore? Or is it bec of my daughter that I am struggling?

Hua

hua,

You have to be honest with yourself ... do you take WH if he returns as the person you know before this A ?. I see you do, correct me if I am mistaken.

A will end. Not now and not yet and you might be have to do plan B to help it. However before you get there you have to take the responsibilty of your part in this mess. Think back what was his compaint about you before the D-day and he still use that as justification. Those are your plan A actions. Print ENq & LBq and fill it as if he did it for you. Avoid LB at all cost and fillin ENq as much as you can. Also don't expect anything from him.

What plan A get you ? ... you are basically negotiating with him to end A. You will come out as a better mate/person after addressing your part. You will have no "regret" if you have to Dv. You might not safe your M ... no gurantee.

Set a time limit ... about 3 months at least before you do plan B. Unless if there is a concern about you & D safety.

All I suggest you to do are guidelines. I really suggest you to contact MB to get coaching.

Questions for you, why their A is on hold ?

-rh-

I've been keeping my distance from my WS, until this last Weds. On Weds. we discussed our financial situation and I stated to her that I was moving on in my life. She stated that it all was coming to a head and that the reality of moving was starting to get to her. I was calm and cool throughout our conversation. I told her that this was her decision and that this is what she wanted. She said she knew she would have to do this.
I explained that before she left to protect us both a legal seperation would have to be filed.
She wanted to know what it meant. I basically explained to her that it was the closest to a divorce as possible. I asked her if a divorce is what she wanted and she said, no. I explained that I didn't want a divorce either but for me to move on it maybe inevitable. I know I waivered in my Plan A. She wants me to be her friend, I told her I'm her husband. This is when I told her that maybe we should just proceed to the D. She began to cry and I said it doesn't have to be this way, she basically wants her cake and icing. I'd been working so good on my Plan A, but in my eyes I must move on in my recovery process. I asked her what she wanted, and she stated for us not to end but to continue as friends. I then said that it doesn't have to end and that our marriage can be worked on, we can return to counseling to try to work on it.
She said that she had no passion for me and that what we what we have is deep affection. I tried to reason with her but knew it would get me no where. I realize she needs to find herself but to continue to hang on my end is not fair to me. I'm not one to be second, and I know this is wrong in Plan A, this is a radical change in my personality. She left upset and told her that this was her decision. I asked Why is it that we both don't want a Divorce but this is what may happen????? She said she still doesn't know what she want's. I know I'll have to back off now, each meeting gets tougher as her move approaches. I tried to follow "Coach"'s recomendations, and was beggining to see the progress, then this.
I need advise, how bad did I damage my Plan A???
or do I just lay back???

I just went into her mobile phone accnt and seen that she's talking to the OP at least 3 hours a day.

Hanging by a Thread!
WAID