I dont know why it wont let you PM me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Private Messaging is enabled under my profile. Hmm... thats ok...

rain,

Anyone who is interested can go over to www.gloryb.com and look for themselves and make up their own minds about your sincerity and that is fine with me. It's only fair since you are requesting that folks come here from that board:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You wanna know the responses i got? NOT NICE. I invite every BS here to go over there and see the post. Its posted twice, once under PlanA/PlanB and once under Just Found Out. My first responses under each speak volumes.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you really want to invite a reverse interest? I don't think you will be thanked for it...because there are many BS's here who are in enough pain to really make that situation bad. I didn't have an OW in my marriage....the infidelity was an ONS...so these issues are not so raw for me. That's why I don't write angry responses. But I think this is a mistake rain.....I really do. Don't you see you are inviting discord?

I have also invited anyone here to go over there and see for themselves, so you are only restating something ive already said myself.

If you care to argue that peppers response was nice, great. Go for it. But i beg to differ.

Rain..

Rain:

The purpose of the NC letter is to help the Bs in emotionl detachment from the wayward spouse. It is not intended to do anything for the WS other than to express honesty about what the affair is doing to the BS who has lost the most important person in their lives.

I think you can understand this,particularly as an affair partner who does not have "sole" claim to the WS.I am sure that it is difficult for you too.

But, and I do not condone what you do, nor am I judging you, the bottom line here is that BS types need to function in their lives. A no contact letter helps them to do that.

Arguing that peppers response is nice....is about useful and arguing that your request was sincere.

You can say the grass is blue all day...but I'm going to know it's green. When you arrive on the site, that is called on TOW, the "BS site" (so you don't have to use MB)....and announce (in the guise of honesty) that you are the OW...give details about a lengthy affair.....and then ask a question about stategies designed to end affairs....what exactly do you expect? You know how emotionally charged these boards are...but you want to push the envelope anyway. You got enough respectful answers....but that isn't enough. You got well thought out and comprehensive answers on your board AND this one.....again, not enough. Will you not be satisfied until you can impact both environments in a negative way.

Star... what exactly do you interpret as me "pushing the envelope" and not finding the answers good enough. Ive thanked several people for their responses.

(gregg... i tried posting a reply but it also got lost - i just said thank you for your honest response and that yes, i do understand. NC was the only way for xMM and i to find a way to walk away from it all. Even though the A was over come DDay... and we did NC without a letter or anything). And also, im not the one that asked the question on TOW. A BS from here did. I came here to ask because i dont know of any other of our posters that responded that were from here.

I really dont see the problem in this exchange except that you doubt my honesty and sincerity. I personally dont see what i have to hide or be insincere about. I never received a NC letter, even though we did agree on NC. I dont need this for my own personal situation, but did want to clarify your groups' views on it all.

So... i really dont see what all your fuss is about. Im not flaming, im being respectful, im being honest, i dont know what else you need from me for my question to be valid.

Let me know and ill gladly oblige.

Rain...

edited to just say: isnt this board mainly for BSs? Isnt the purpose here to support the BS? Thats often why this is referred to as the BS site and tow is the OW site.
Always seemed logical to me, even though i personally have almost always referred to it as MB (and its posters as MBers), if i have referred to it as the BS site, i truly dont recall that.

<small>[ September 21, 2003, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: Rain ]</small>

starfish

From my perspectiv YOU are the one that is impacting this thread in a negative way. You've expressed your feelings. Thanks.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Can you explain to me the purpose of this? Why the BS feels the need to require this of the WS rather than allowing him to do this on his own free will.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Rain--

To be honest, when d-day first hit, I wasn't even aware that such a thing as a "formal" NC letter existed,,, but, you can be certain that I wanted OW OUT OF THE PICTURE (and that I wanted my H to comply with my wishes!).

Approximately two months post d-day, I happened upon this site and was instructed by others here to have the NC letter signed/sealed/delivered.

In theory, I LOVE THE NC LETTER,,, there's no better way for the WS to redeem him/herself (in the eyes of the BS) than for him/her to tell the OP that the affair was an indulgence that selfishly hurt the family... and that he/she is standing by his/her family.

Of course, the person writing the letter should be sincere. Of course, it doesn't always happen that way.

In my situation, my H refused to write the letter <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> . His refusal to NOT write the letter spoke VOLUMES to me.

For your info, I've cut and pasted Harley's words for you to read regarding his version of how an affair should end:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How should an unfaithful spouse tell his lover that their relationship is over? If left to their own devices, many would take a Caribbean cruise to say their final good-byes. Obviously, that will not do. In fact, I recommend that the final good-bye be in the form of a letter, and not in person or even by telephone.

My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">-a

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by star*fish:
<strong>Arguing that peppers response is nice....is about useful and arguing that your request was sincere.

You can say the grass is blue all day...but I'm going to know it's green. When you arrive on the site, that is called on TOW, the "BS site" (so you don't have to use MB)....and announce (in the guise of honesty) that you are the OW...give details about a lengthy affair.....and then ask a question about stategies designed to end affairs....what exactly do you expect? You know how emotionally charged these boards are...but you want to push the envelope anyway. You got enough respectful answers....but that isn't enough. You got well thought out and comprehensive answers on your board AND this one.....again, not enough. Will you not be satisfied until you can impact both environments in a negative way.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Star,
You might consider stepping out of this thread if it causes you such angst. Rain's question was in no way disrespectful or designed to hurt anyone here. She asked two questions,and some were kind enough to reply and answer them.
Something that I've learned over my years on the internet and in the dealing with the topic of infidelity is this, if there is a post that causes you to become angry or causes a negative reaction in you, then some searching to discover the reason why you are reacting the way you are is deeper than the surface response.
I personally never had/would have given my husband the ultimatum of sending a NC letter because I believe that sending one if that is not what his actual intentions were, was not productive. He needed to decide on his own if he wanted our marriage or not and no amount of prodding on my part was going to change that. I could have insisted that he send one, but to what end? If he was not willing to end the affair of his own volition, then it is/was counterproductive. Of course, this only applies to my own marriage and my interactions with my own husband, and I realize that it goes against MB principles, but it worked for me and for him.

patient,

If you understand the consequences of these sorts of board wars and ugly they have been from time to time, and still believe it is myself who is being negative here....I can only say I respectfully disagree. I have seen the fallout on both boards and it is painful for everyone. Have you looked at what is being stirred up on the other site...or are you just dismissing me? I appreciate your thanks to which I will reply "you are welcome"

Ill just state for the record (not that it matters!) that even though my MM refused to send the NC letter that his W insisted on (which ill admit is a little different than what Harley proposes but not that much different it seems, she just had more than one motive), that he did initiate NC on his own. He, nor i, saw the benefit to anyone (other than a jab from her to me) with the NC letter. I think she eventually realized that she wanted it more as a means to hurt me than as a way for her H to prove her point.

BUt in the end, NC was initiated, mostly by him, agreed to and respected by me, for all the right reasons (the first attempt at NC failed, ill admit). I think in the end, that was the closure we both needed to really devote ourselves to our own individual lives. It wasnt an easy thing to do, but it was something we both needed to do.

So even though he didnt send the letter (and i hope you read this ambrosia), i really dont think that was a blow to his W, but his need to end things in a way that would be a real ending for him. There was no lovey dovey mess involved... it was a very civilized conversation. That we needed to end contact, that he needed to work on his M, that this was hard on us both but that there was really no other option if he wanted to salvage his M which was in very bad shape at that time, and for me to press on with my life.

It just wasnt a necessity in our particular situation. And thankfully, MM and his W were still able to do what they needed to work through it (im sure theyre still in the process = its only been less than 6 months since dday).

Rain...

star - is there a board war going on that we dont know about?

Rain...

sandi,

Both you and ambrosia are posting on both boards I see, and just interested in helping rain make a stir. Ambrosia at least answered the question in a respectful way.

I am not the least upset by this....since I haven't had to experience having an OW in my life....and so don't have the sort of "hate" required to be ugly to another human being. I never had to write a NC letter so this is NOT a trigger for me of any kind. I help others who are suffering through long affairs with this task almost daily though. My story is well known here, so research if you like....and you will find that I am not an angry or disrespectful poster. I have been in recovery for a long time from the ONS that my H had.

I am only appealing to your logic in not making these boards a war zone....a reasonable request considering how awful the troll wars can get on TOW. Those wars are very painful for some of the posters on TOW....and the board is full of requests to stop it. Since I'm the one replying.....that means that there aren't any ugly replies to cause more problems here. I can stop....and I will....but then the replies from BS who are still in pain will almost definitely be worse.

Im not making a stir, so i certianly dont need assistance in doing something im not (does that even make sense? lol).

Nonetheless, if asking about the procedure and different peoples perceptions and motivations behind an NC letter are offensive, i apologize. i dont see why its offensive unfortunately since it is something that seems to normally be discussed here.

If there is something in my original post about me being an OW or abuot my situation taht is offensive, let me know... ill gladly edit it.

Rain...

FYI-- I believe in showing respect to all living creatures <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . Dogs and cats... even spiders!

I have been posting at BOTH boards for several years. I enjoy BOTH and will likely continue to post on both! I also post on a few "community boards"-- mostly women's chit/chat, etc.-- however, my MOST FAVORITE BOARD of all was the old www.discovery.com 's now defunct "Missing Link" board <sigh... how I miss that place>.

I have no allegiance to any one, single board-- as posted elsewhere, I'm an equal-opportunity poster <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

-a

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Rain:
<strong>I have also invited anyone here to go over there and see for themselves, so you are only restating something ive already said myself.

If you care to argue that peppers response was nice, great. Go for it. But i beg to differ.

Rain..</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please use the link at the bottom of my post to say anything you care to say ... about the way I express my views.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I accept criticism with open arms.

If you decide to link to my thread to make comments about my style, or my POV, that stops YOUR thread from being off topic.

Thanks.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Thanks... if i ever feel the need, ill know where to go <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Rain...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by star*fish:
<strong>sandi,

Both you and ambrosia are posting on both boards I see, and just interested in helping rain make a stir. Ambrosia at least answered the question in a respectful way.
Star, with all due respect, where I chose to post is my business. Just like you, I post where I see fit, and as long as I abide by the rules, then "where" I chose to post shouldn't concern you or anyone else.
I am not the least upset by this....since I haven't had to experience having an OW in my life....and so don't have the sort of "hate" required to be ugly to another human being. I never had to write a NC letter so this is NOT a trigger for me of any kind. I help others who are suffering through long affairs with this task almost daily though. My story is well known here, so research if you like....and you will find that I am not an angry or disrespectful poster. I have been in recovery for a long time from the ONS that my H had.

I am only appealing to your logic in not making these boards a war zone....a reasonable request considering how awful the troll wars can get on TOW. Those wars are very painful for some of the posters on TOW....and the board is full of requests to stop it. Since I'm the one replying.....that means that there aren't any ugly replies to cause more problems here. I can stop....and I will....but then the replies from BS who are still in pain will almost definitely be worse.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I certainly have seen more than my fair share of board wars, in many places, not just TOW or MB but I fail to see where Rain's original question started any board war. Prompted discussion, yes, and that is as it should be, but a war between the boards, No, I haven't seen that. I know all about the pain inflicted on all sides of this triangle having lived it first hand, and believe it or not, no one side has the market.
I still believe that Rain's question was a valid one and still believe that was not done with any ill intent or purpose.

Good afternoon. I am a new member here but my wife has been a member since 2001. I was the WS. We are reconciled thanks to the Harley method. Although I have never posted a message here I read several times a week and this topic today sparked my need to register.

First off to Rain. I understand you mean no ill will and you are as welcomed here as anyone who follows the rules. I never sent a no contact letter because I ended the affair before telling my wife. She never asked me to send one.

Now the real issue. I don't care if a person has 1 posting or 1 million of them. Every opinion is valuable to someone somewhere. There isn't a queen pubba of the boards and because you spend all day and night reading and posting that don't mean squat in the scheme of things. Cut people a break and stop trying to run them off the boards. People come here to build their marriage stronger not to be bashed because you have more postings. Maybe some are overly involved here. God bless.

Scott

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sandi520:
<strong>[QUOTE]Originally posted by star*fish:
[qb]sandi,

I know all about the pain inflicted on all sides of this triangle having lived it first hand, and believe it or not, no one side has the market.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Rain .... Sandi wants to validate your pain. OK. But I prefer to think you have the ability to go deeper than your own pain .... go into your soul.

Let's not talk about PAIN or FEELINGS .... let's talk about principles and integrity instead. Pain and other human feelings come and go .... what makes each of us honorable as human beings, is the quality of our character, not the intensity of our feelings.

It ought to be clear that it is wrong to be disruptive and destructive to another's marriage.

The single-minded desire to be happy at honor's expense is a fast track to hurt.

Rain, your having an affair with a MM was wrong. Not because it hurt your feelings when it was time to break up, but because it is morally wrong. Your affair hurt a family, and your actions were morally wrong.

The discussion about a forced "NC letter" is a detail of little or no importance to YOUR character development.

Do you live by a code of ethics Rain? What are they? Are they situational? Do your morals bend whenever you have feelings?

Your ethical and moral values involve not only how you behave, but the behavior you accept in others you choose to be intimate with.

You are obligated to make moral judgements about your own behavior. And, that self-judging includes looking at being in an adulterous relationship with a man who is breaking his marriage vows.

It is totally irrelevant to say you never thought you'd be involved with a MM. Our honor only becomes relevant when we are faced with a moral dilemma. When it came time to make a moral and honorable and "good" choice, a humane and loving choice .... you chose what was to your situational advantage. You chose to be morally wrong because of your feelings.

This means, Rain, that unless you have become a new woman of principles via your adultery experience, others have no reason to trust you ... when you are faced with an ethical dilemma.

This topic of diversion of yours ... (no-contact again) discussing the MM's wife, her mis-steps, her impotent "demand" to her H ..... these things are none of your business.

What is YOUR business, Rain, is looking at yourself. Your past disregard for your supposed code of ethics and human kindness. You were NOT kind. You are not a trustworthy person .... but you can become a woman of parts. You can become a woman of integrity and honor. But, not when you continue choose to explore "why" and "what" of another woman's marriage that is, again, none of your business.

If I am "unkind" in my words to you on a public message board .... how would you describe your most insensitive, cruel and deliberate spoiling of another woman's life?

Premeditated malice?

Start a new thread Rain .... one where you explore your own moral quagmire. Your own joys of self discovery. Your own path to personal recovery.

What are your strengths?

What are your fears?

What are your tender spots?

Where are your dreams for the future?

Surely, an NC letter that did not get written is not all that you are about !!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />