How important is it to have the WS to be COMPLETELY separated from the lover? My WS still works with the OP and sees him everyday. While she insists there is nothing going on and in fact we've seen him out of work with someone else so he has moved on, but he does 'heckle' my spouse. When she talks about anything personal at work, i.e. the house, the kids or even me he openly laughs, makes faces and tries to make her feel uncomfortable. We've talked about her leaving but she is VERY scared to leave a really good company that she has been with for almost 5 years now. Especially in this market. She has the potential to transfer to another market but that moves us across the entire US, even more scary and it requires me to get a new job (not to big of a deal personally) but that is even more scary.

She has said that she is really concerned about what he might do or say sometime so she stresses about it constantly. She doesn't mention it at home as we are still in recovery and she isn't as open as she could be, but soon. I personally want to just move out of state and start fresh but she is terrified as it's risky and we're all about no risk in most of our lives.

Is it reasonable to think that he might just fade away? Can she(we) really recover completely with him still visible? I wouldn't think so, but how do I approach her with this (she has read page 60 of SAA, so she knows how much Harley stresses it) without appearing to try and push my point of view across? I think a fresh start elsewhere is just what the DR. ordered but I don't want to seem like I'm transfixed on it.

Thanks.
Steve

<small>[ September 30, 2003, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: Tampa Steve ]</small>

steve,
no contact means just that.

it's almost impossible for the wayward partner to get over the affair, move on with recovery and go forward, while the OM is till in the picture.

look at your situation. how can she get past anything when he is there making his presence so obvious in every way he can?

she may complain but mean while she is still interacting with him! he is still in your lives! this is not a good thing.

one last thought. some people may even feel that the witty reparte between them, that passes for heckling, is a kind of flirting or love talk. humm...is this probable? maybe not but is it possible? you bet it is.

my advice....get her out of there and do it right away!

coach

Thanks for the reply, I kind of thought that was the case, I know a lot of what he is doing is to keep himself on her mind. Even if it means negatively right now, the idea though of her leaving is just a tough one, we have spent about 5 hours over the last 2 nights talking about it and she is burning out about talking it out. I'm afraid she will grow weary of worrying about it and simpy change her mind and say forget it I'll deal with him at work we're not moving/changing jobs.

As it is right now she is not all that motivated, I've suggested she dust off the resume but she has made no attempts to do so. You see her top 2 EN's are:
Financial support
Family Commitment

These make her very hesitant to change when she might risk the family in a move and or job change that doesnt work out. I'm not sure exactly what to do, right now she is all for moving IF we can get everything taken care of in advance i.e. jobs etc but who knows what tomorrow will bring.

Again, thanks for your input.
TS

TS,
first, decisions about how to handle this situation and moving are those that you two make together...TOGETHER! she, on her own, does not get to decide anything! she surrendered that right when she made so many poor choices before.

second, if 1 of her top ENs is family comittment then there should be no problem! you guys must stay together and get throught this and that means doing what ever it takes!

third, she can't just stay there and deal with it. if nothing else, then together you two should go the HR department where she works and lay all the cards on the table.

forth, if you need to get tough about it, and the HR departemnt doesn't respond, (or there is no HR department where she works) then get a lawyer and sue them and the OM for sexual harrassment!

explain some of these optins to your W and be sure to do it lovingly! then express to her that you are just not about to let this thing go on and have him persecute her...that you can't tolerate his abuse of her and you won't! let her know you care and that she doesn't have to handle this thing alone. that you love her and that you're in this together.

one last thought. why doesn't she simply leave and get another job? that does not require the family pulling up stakes and moving!...seems almost to simple doesn't it?

coach

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by coach3530:
<strong>TS,
first, decisions about how to handle this situation and moving are those that you two make together...TOGETHER! she, on her own, does not get to decide anything! she surrendered that right when she made so many poor choices before.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well a lot of it is that I feel like I'm trying to push my point across, we both truly feel the change would be good but fears of failure in a new place are a major hang-up for her, we're going to continue talking about it though and see where it takes us. I guess a major step is she mentioned the idea to her mother last night and her mother darn near hung up on her saying she can't deal with this right now she's already stressed enough (great role model this women is sometimes).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by coach3530:
<strong>
second, if 1 of her top ENs is family commitment then there should be no problem! you guys must stay together and get throught this and that means doing what ever it takes!
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, that's why I think she is partly interested to begin with, I guess her big hang up is she may not see the complete benefit from 100% separation from him. I know I would feel so much better and I need to voice this to her but she is weighing the stress of seeing him daily vs. the stress of relocating and or finding another job.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by coach3530:
<strong>
third, she can't just stay there and deal with it. if nothing else, then together you two should go the HR department where she works and lay all the cards on the table.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She did this today, HR told her pretty much tough luck. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by coach3530:
<strong>
forth, if you need to get tough about it, and the HR department doesn't respond, (or there is no HR department where she works) then get a lawyer and sue them and the OM for sexual harassment!
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well here is the tricky part, the OM is a little mentally gone at times, hence another reason for her to want to get out of there. For almost 6 weeks when we first got back together he was sta1king us, drive bys, writing letters to us, her parents, dropping off information at the house, we'd see him out socially and finally the kicker he bought a house that he just closed on yesterday about 2 miles from ours! He lived 20 miles away and lived like 3 miles from his work now he lives or so to be about 18-20 miles from work. He moved to the complete other side of town unexpectedly. Sooo the short and skinny of it is we are afraid of what will happen if this gets nasty with her HR, they are of course going to drag him into this. To head off the next and most logical thought, yes we have already spoken to police, they told us that unless he does anything aggressive or malicious there is nothing they can do, just bad anti-sta1king laws in FL.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by coach3530:
<strong>
explain some of these options to your W and be sure to do it lovingly! then express to her that you are just not about to let this thing go on and have him persecute her...that you can't tolerate his abuse of her and you won't! let her know you care and that she doesn't have to handle this thing alone. that you love her and that you're in this together.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks I really never took the defensive H approach, I have been looking at this as trying to resolve more her problem and helping her, I am going to starting approaching this from an Us perspective which I should have been doing all along, thanks for bringing that to my attention.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by coach3530:
<strong>
one last thought. why doesn't she simply leave and get another job? that does not require the family pulling up stakes and moving!...seems almost to simple doesn't it?
coach</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">well there in lies the trouble, partly because I think she is afraid to, partly because of the trouble above with him living near us now a simple job change wont do it. Plus the separation drained our money and we are flat broke right now and are on track for getting our life in order financially so her being out of work any length of time would be very detrimental and I fear depressing to her since financial support is her biggest EN, making our situation look more bleak would only hurt things. I have some suggestions I'm going to run by her on this tonight though, I have though of some good ones right now as I type.

Thank you again for taking the time to talk with me about my problems, I really appreciate it, I'm sure your very busy, I just wanted you to know how much it's appreciated.

TS

TS,
you are ever so welcome to what ever poor advice i can offer. i'm sure others on this board will soon find your post and be wiling to help out as well. the more and different perspectives that you get regarding the problem, should help you find the formula that's right.

just a couple of other thoughts from this rather strident source. if her HR department want to tell her tough luck go to an attorney and discuss the issue. i'm willing to bet that there are serious work place violations that have taken place here that her company can be made to deal with. it's sad but sometimes you just have to force the issue.

also, please understand that your dealing in a very grey action areas. there may not be a perfect solution. it may be that what you're confronting is a dilema, which is a problimatical postion to be in at best. yet, negating any possible answer to the problem simply because it may be uncomfortable to chose a path that may cause confrontaional, embarassing, caue fear or pain is not the way to go. not coming to a solution or not taking action is in fact a form of taking action on it's own. and it's a negative form at best!

get a lawyer, have him get an order of protection and then hit the company she works for hard! make them deal with the problem! and if the loony toon decides to get even, then call the police. if he violates an OOP then they will act!

as for the W, she has to agree to let you help. she must understand that this is your problem as much as hers and that you will not back off on your responsabilities as her H and the father of her children.

good luck
coach

Well all went well yesterday...sorta. WS called me in the mid afternoon said that she's been thinking about it and her vote is for moving and quitting her job. Great I said, we chatted some more. Well later that day her mother called me all frazzled saying she is finally getting around to addressing the 'us moving' issue. She was freaking out and it boils down to her primary concern was our kids would be taken away from her and she would have no family left here, she'd be all alone. Our conversation ended abruptly as I had to go but I called my W shortly there after to warn her of her mothers mood and lo and behold she was pulling in our driveway at the time, W had to go.

This worried me since the mood her mother was in could not be good, this is a women who was use to getting her way and never takes no for an answer. Well for nearly 2 hours (I had to work late to meet her #1 EN) her mother badgered her. She left right before I got home because she knows when I'm around I'm a voice of reason against her and when she is alone with my W she can bend her will any way she wants with guilt and manipulation. A long story short, my W now says she thinks it's not a good idea and is worried about no family support and she is worried about angering her mother.

We talked for some time about it and I tried to avoid LB's as much as possible but I was angry because of 2 reasons, 1 I felt my W took my MIL's opinion more importantly than mine and 2 because my W made a major decision without discussing it with me. She got very angry about this and said I'm going to bed, she also said she has to try and make us happy and her mother happy. Well we talked in bed for a bit and I told her how I felt about 1&2 above and she said she doesn't like all this 'openess' and liked the way we were before the A (no talking and hiding each other emotions).

I feel that we have stepped back months of recovery here, we were doing quite well and things were looking up. I want to so tell her mother to butt out but I fear that will only aggravate the situation. I just don't know what to do right now and I'm struggling because my top EN's are affection and conversation and I'm not really getting either. I feel like I'm fighting her and her mother now...

Thanks for any insight anyone....
TS