This is my first post here. I've been lurking for a long time and making good use of the valkuable information here. BTW, Applying methods from SSA & DR likely saved my marriage from a complete meltdown. At first I was very emotional with angry outbursts. W says she was ready to end M, and then said she seen this 360 from me and reconsidered. Here's my sitch.

Me 40
WW 42
Married 12 yrs.
S 9
D 8
DDay #1 Early July, found out about 1+yr EA with coworker. W Swore to end it.
DDAY #2 Mid July. Found out A has not ended and is EA/PA.
Been in Plan A since early August.
W contained the A entirely within working hours, so its hard for me to be sure of its status now.
W told me during a R talk in Sept. she ended it with him. Not hard but good evidence that it is not.
W says that she needs to find where her head is at and when all is said and done she is going to do whats best for the kids.
W is at home, we sleep in same bed, daily life has progressed to better than last couple of years. W hugs but draws line at that, started ILYs for 2 days then stopped.

She is likely getting her cake and eating to at this point and I don't know if she has any motivation to take the difficult step of truly ending the A. So I want to start trying to get her to be more open. I have limted R talks to 1-2 times/ month but without a "script" tended to ramble until she asked me to stop. Below is a draft of a talk I want to have with her. I really think she wants to save our M but is too hooked on OM. Please give me any feedback and let me know whether you think starting a dialogue such as listed below will do more good than bad?

Thanks,

FAM_MAN

We have talked about this whole mess before and I know it has made you uneasy. But I need to go over them in a calmer way with you and work with you to figure out where we go from here. Our marriage, and our children’s happiness cannot be ignored simply because we get upset talking about it. As we sit here today, I hope you have as open of a mind as possible. It would be easy for both of us to blame each other, and throw up our defenses but, that would help nothing. I have no interest in blaming you or making you feel guilty about this situation, I believe in our family and I’m trying to do what I hope is best for everyone. If not for us, for our kids, please try and listen to what I have to say and please feel free to tell me your thoughts and feelings at anytime.

Do you see out relationship improving? If no what needs to happen to help it improve?

Is there anything you want to share with me on any progress you have been making?

Please name 2 things I can be doing differently to help our situation.

Are you still committed to doing what’s best for the kids?

Do you think they deserve us making an all out effort to become a happy family again?

Do you see any advantages to the kids, us, our home life or finances by us separating?

Are you willing to put your personal happiness temporarily aside to try and keep this family together?

I think I have a fair understanding of what you have been going through. I’m guessing this whole thing has lately been a depressing source of conflict and stress to you. Plus you have the physical pain of the accident to deal with. I’ve learned a lot in the past months. At some point I’d like to discuss what I have learned and how it relates to the problems we face.

While I’m trying to understand your pain and turmoil, I only hope you have some empathy for what I have been going through. This has been by far the most painful experience of my life. Each morning I wake up about 3:00am, lay in bed awake, fearing that the family we both love and have worked hard to protect could be broken up, wondering is their something else I can be doing differently to better connect with you, something to resolve this situation before it gets out of control. One of the things that keeps me going is I NEVER want the kids exposed to this level pain and turmoil. Breaking up in the midst of what is happening will no doubt throw their happy lives into chaos.

Neither you nor I can change the past and remaining entangled in it will hinder our ability to move ahead. However, we can do a lot about the future. When all is said and done if you have a nice house, happy children, comfortable lifestyle, cool car and a husband and father who is willing to do what it takes to keep his family happy, that’s not all that bad. Its something many people envy. We have a chance here to save something precious. I know I'm not perfect, but I’m inviting you to work with me on trying to fix this and doing what it takes to keep our little family together. We promised each other for better or for worse, while are in midst of a big worse, we have had lots of better times and I know we can have a lot more better times to come. I’m pretty much done with what I have written. Now I would like you to try and share as many of your feelings as possible on where we stand and where we should go from here.

Welcome FAM_MAN.

I can relate with you very heavily, I'm working thought an almost identical situation, WW had EA for almost 9 months, then moved to EA/PA. We eventually seperated over it because she had enough at home and the OM was meeting to many of her EN's. Many of your feelings and thoughts are the same as I had/have, I've tried several approaches before finding this MB so I'll offer some feedback on what worked for me.

First I read you questions from your diologue, I'd reconsider your line of quesitoning and or verbage. I say this because your references to her wanting to keep the kids happy comes across as a big guilt trip and will be a major LB (love buster) it will draw even more from her bank than you have to right now.

I also wouldnt ask her to name 2 things that you can do differently, this says you don't know enough about how she feels about the relationship and looks like you just want to know what will make her stop the A. I tried that line of quesitoning, repeatedly what I got was the blow off repeatedly because she didn't care enough anymore to tell me. She figured why should she smomeone else was already meeting them. What I would do is have her fill out the EN questionaire, I had to almost use a LB to get this done since she really didnt want to since she didnt see the point, but she did. Plead if you have to but ensure it's done honestly and thorough, you so need this info. Once you have that you now know what you need to focus on. Usually the top 3 or 4 are being neglected by you. For my WW it was FS, FC, Con and DS. #1 was too tough to hit quickly, so i worked on #2 and topped with lots of talking, I spent/spend EVERY WAKING MOMENT trying to meet those needs of family commitment. It took nearly 8 weeks of being open, honest, loving, affectionate and fufilling these EN's before she started repsonding. For 8 weeks I gave 110% and recieved 0%! You have to understand how hard that is and it is going to be, I nearly lost it several times and felt depressed to the point I didn't think it was going to work, but you have to be strong or it won't work.

As far as the rest of the quesitons, I again wouldnt persue that line of quesitoning, your asking her things to consider she probably thought about some time ago and right now wont be honest with you about, if it werent for kids she may have already left, remember the facination with the new OM is almost addiction like and she may have trouble seeing clearly. Don't make her talk about him or the A, it withdraws more from her bank due to the stress and pain plus it makes her think about him more. When she is ready to talk about it she will.

You need to really put plan A in to action and stick with it, once you start meeting her EN's she will have less reasons to need him and may see the light or see it and still be unable to break away, then you need to bring it out in the open to family. For now though be nice, avoid LB's, don't nag, don't constantly ask how she feels about 'us'(that was hard for me personally), don't give her any reason to dislike you and you need to give all the reasons to love you. Just remember right now she may not love you anymore if the OM is doing a superb job, this happened with me, this is tough to contend with.

Well thats all for now, tell us how it goes, I'll check back on this thread. If you need someone to talk with PM I'll be glad to be there anyway I can, I'm still fighting through this myself and I know how tough it is. Good luck to you. Remember NO GUILTING HER.

TS

Thanx Steve for your in depth feedback. I'll definitely take your feedback about the guilt that could be perceived from the questions. I reduce them to:

Do you see out relationship improving?

Is there anything you want to share with me on any progress you have been making?

Is there I can be doing differently to help our situation?

Also, as far as me asking is she still committed to doing whats best for the kids. She made this statement several times after DDay. I might try to figure out a way of rephrasing the question to refer to her decisions as we move forward. Also, I'd like to ask her if she thinks she can make a decision before Christmas. I don't want to think about this hanging over our head during what was a special time of year for us. Plus, and I know this maybe controlling, but I'm quite sure she is feeling guilty and I think breaking up the family before Christmas would not be something she would do.

I'm a little concerned about asking her to fill out the EN questionnaire. I want her to know these words are from my heart and whipping out the form may turn her off. One of my goals with this, I call it R-Talk1.0, is to feel her out to see how open she is to talking about this in a calm manner. So I'll try to empathize as much as I can and leave out anything I think she will get upset at. If she begins to open up, I'll slowly get more indepth in subsquent scripted talks. I plan on getting another solid month of Plan A in before approaching her with this. I'll post my revision before I go for it.

Its sad, but I've grown to accept it, but just the thought that married people with kids and a halway decent family life feel justfied in doing this $hit turns my stomach. With that said, she mentioned 1-2yrs back that she had to tell him several times to back off. I, like an idiot, expected her to handle the situation. He apparently kept on calling and sending notes until she started to give in. I'm not sure that has a bearing on her feelings now but its helps a little but to know she was "seduced" as opposed to actively seeking the A out. At some point, if she opens up a lot, I want to ask her if that is an accurate description of how it started. She might be pissed that I brought up the A or she might realize that I don't blame her as much as she thought and open up some more.

Thanx again for your feedback.

FAM_MAN

<small>[ October 06, 2003, 06:27 PM: Message edited by: FAM_MAN ]</small>

As I move forward I may get brave enough to bring up the fact that we have this contained, just me, her, OM & counselors. And that there little chance of keeping it that way if the A continues. I'd talk to her about how we have a chance right now to minimize the destruction, save her reputaton, and our kids well being. And protect the ones we love from the pain that I see families put through on these forums. I'd throw in some verifiable facts about the success rate of affairs after they have been exposed and let her know about the families who needlessly endured pain only to have the WS come back because the affair couldn't survive in real life.

Its not throwing a guilt trip on her as much as it is acknowledging that she has a chance to minimize the damage this whole thing may cause. Not sure if its a LB. Its a logical conclusion but as I have found out logic is not the prevailing method WSs use to think.

FAM_MAN

just a gentel reminder, marriage and the recovery there of, can't really go forward as long as W is still in contact with OM. so even if what she says is true, the situation is still problematical. thus you find yourself where you are at present.

if you're really intent on following the system, then holding the affair up to public scrutiney is probaly going to be paramount to your success.

but be aware, opening this thing up will probaly cause her to be very angry....and she will make all kinds of threats etc. The thing is though, the healing process can't really begin while you allow her to continue in her affair. to get out of the status quo, i believe, you need to challenge the situation pro-actively.

if it were me i would walk right into her place of business and confront the OM. similarly, i would make sure that his W (if he's married) knows all...further i would go the HR department of your W's office and make them aware of the activities of the little love birds...GOING ON ON COMPANY TIME!

once the "fat's inthe fire," so to speak, you will finally come to understand what your W's position really is. more to the point she will understand that you're serious.

look, as things are right now, you're stuck somewhere in "no man's land." she is adicted to the affair and you're holding the bag...and guess what the bag is filled with!?

maybe others here can suggest a kinder, more gentel way of managing the situation...as for me, i would act immediatly to end this little love fest.

coach

Hey Fam_Man,

Sorry for not keeping up, I was swamped yesterday. I think in some ways I agree with coach but I wouldnt go so drastic yet. At least wihtout more info. How long have you been in plan A? Have you been meeting her EN's? for how long? I mean MEETING them, but also remember that she isn't going to just change overnight. more than likely this is a result of years of EN neglect, I know personally mine was. She has spent some time having an EA with the OM so she is attached to him and feels a sense of fear for leaving him because he may still meet her EN's better than you.

I know in some ways how you feel, you dont want to do anything that will drive her away and the idea of her moving out respulses you. It tore me up when my wife left, but it was the best thing that could have happened in so many ways. Have the two of you seen an MC's? Is she still professing that it's 100% over? Or is she openly admitting to having both of you? If she is openly admitting to both then I say it's time to go with coaches suggestion and continue to meet her EN's as best you can.

TS

tamp & fam man...you should both know that an entegral part/element of plan A is blowing the whistle! that's right...letting the entire known world in on the dirty little secret.

this is text book stuff...TELLING EVERYONE AND ANY ONE THAT WILL LISTEN..."MY WIFE IS HAVING AND AFFAIR WITH MR. X AND I WANT IT TO STOP SO I CAN SAVE MY MARRIAGE."

coach